Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result
Discussion
Funkycoldribena said:
Greg66 said:
don'tbesilly said:
So even though we haven't invoked A50 yet, and even if we had we would still be a member of the EU for at least two years whilst continuing to pay the 'subs', you condone and support the behaviour of the EU.
Lots of assumptions built into this. You seem to think that the costs of an EU Army can be covered out of existing contributions. I don't. Existing contributoins cover existing outgoings, of which the EU Army amounts to 0%. If the EU makes a cash call on us to fund the EU Army prior to A50 + 2 years, then I agree that they can whistle for that. But unlike you I don't think we will be paying for an EU Army at any time.
Once we invoke A50, I think you'd have to be pretty special to think that the EU would continue to act in our interests. We wouldn't continue to act in its interests (I'd hope) so why would we expect more from them? And yes, we have to pay our subs in the two year period, because that's the deal we signed up to. Read the small print, and all that.
Funkycoldribena said:
What a load of absolute garbage.
And if it had gone the other way and Farage was calling for a second referendum you'd be screaming the place down.
First, welcome to the dialogue. And if it had gone the other way and Farage was calling for a second referendum you'd be screaming the place down.
Secondly, who the f
k are you? Thirdly, despite the expansiveness of your reply, you seemed to have stalled on the first point: the referendum rerun. If the vote had been to remain and Farage had called for a rerun, once I'd stopped laughing my head off, I'd have been of the view he could f
k right off. But the talking point between me and don'tbesilly was whether it was possible to have a second vote, not whether it should be re-run. So thanks for playing but you seem to have missed the point. dildoez said:
True.
Poor ol' Greggs. Talking out of his 'bake side' again.
Present, Miss!
So Boris now wants Turkey to join the EU.
I seem to recall he was rather against that just before 23 June - indeed he said it was a reason to vote brexit.
Perhaps he is doing this so UK can win over Turkey and maybe get a good trade deal.
Maybe one of those special bilateral trade deals that Davis wanted to strike with each of the 27 EU member states - until someone reminded him the EU does tarde deals as a bloc.
PS the discussion on the EU army is quite remarkable. The fact that the EU is pressing ahead is because we are leaving. Brexit CREATED the EU army we were previously blocking. If any brexiteers didn't want one, face the facts - you helped make it happen.
I seem to recall he was rather against that just before 23 June - indeed he said it was a reason to vote brexit.
Perhaps he is doing this so UK can win over Turkey and maybe get a good trade deal.
Maybe one of those special bilateral trade deals that Davis wanted to strike with each of the 27 EU member states - until someone reminded him the EU does tarde deals as a bloc.
PS the discussion on the EU army is quite remarkable. The fact that the EU is pressing ahead is because we are leaving. Brexit CREATED the EU army we were previously blocking. If any brexiteers didn't want one, face the facts - you helped make it happen.
///ajd said:
So Boris now wants Turkey to join the EU.
I seem to recall he was rather against that just before 23 June - indeed he said it was a reason to vote brexit.
Perhaps he is doing this so UK can win over Turkey and maybe get a good trade deal.
Maybe one of those special bilateral trade deals that Davis wanted to strike with each of the 27 EU member states - until someone reminded him the EU does tarde deals as a bloc.
PS the discussion on the EU army is quite remarkable. The fact that the EU is pressing ahead is because we are leaving. Brexit CREATED the EU army we were previously blocking. If any brexiteers didn't want one, face the facts - you helped make it happen.
Point 1- Boris has a penchant for Turkish Delight, he's worried about possible increased costs. I seem to recall he was rather against that just before 23 June - indeed he said it was a reason to vote brexit.
Perhaps he is doing this so UK can win over Turkey and maybe get a good trade deal.
Maybe one of those special bilateral trade deals that Davis wanted to strike with each of the 27 EU member states - until someone reminded him the EU does tarde deals as a bloc.
PS the discussion on the EU army is quite remarkable. The fact that the EU is pressing ahead is because we are leaving. Brexit CREATED the EU army we were previously blocking. If any brexiteers didn't want one, face the facts - you helped make it happen.
My response is as daft as your post.
PS: It's remarkable because it shows the machiavellian nature of the EU.
It's also remarkable, probably more so , because of the stupidity of your opinion.
///ajd said:
So Boris now wants Turkey to join the EU.
I seem to recall he was rather against that just before 23 June - indeed he said it was a reason to vote brexit.
Filmed about year earlier I seem to recall he was rather against that just before 23 June - indeed he said it was a reason to vote brexit.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SVUemAsXGO8
///ajd said:
PS the discussion on the EU army is quite remarkable. The fact that the EU is pressing ahead is because we are leaving. Brexit CREATED the EU army we were previously blocking. If any brexiteers didn't want one, face the facts - you helped make it happen.
///ajd said:
So Boris now wants Turkey to join the EU.
I seem to recall he was rather against that just before 23 June - indeed he said it was a reason to vote brexit.
Perhaps he is doing this so UK can win over Turkey and maybe get a good trade deal.
Maybe one of those special bilateral trade deals that Davis wanted to strike with each of the 27 EU member states - until someone reminded him the EU does tarde deals as a bloc.
PS the discussion on the EU army is quite remarkable. The fact that the EU is pressing ahead is because we are leaving. Brexit CREATED the EU army we were previously blocking. If any brexiteers didn't want one, face the facts - you helped make it happen.
Anyone with half a brain doesn't take any notice of what Boris may or may not say...clearly you don't qualify in that department.I seem to recall he was rather against that just before 23 June - indeed he said it was a reason to vote brexit.
Perhaps he is doing this so UK can win over Turkey and maybe get a good trade deal.
Maybe one of those special bilateral trade deals that Davis wanted to strike with each of the 27 EU member states - until someone reminded him the EU does tarde deals as a bloc.
PS the discussion on the EU army is quite remarkable. The fact that the EU is pressing ahead is because we are leaving. Brexit CREATED the EU army we were previously blocking. If any brexiteers didn't want one, face the facts - you helped make it happen.
The EU should form their own little army just as long as we are no part of it and do not contribute in any way....I'm sure it will work well for them all
don'tbesilly said:
Point 1- Boris has a penchant for Turkish Delight, he's worried about possible increased costs.
My response is as daft as your post.
PS: It's remarkable because it shows the machiavellian nature of the EU.
It's also remarkable, probably more so , because of the stupidity of your opinion.
The only stupidity is from anyone saying "ha look EU army now, told you so". It exposes a real lack of even basic logical analysis.My response is as daft as your post.
PS: It's remarkable because it shows the machiavellian nature of the EU.
It's also remarkable, probably more so , because of the stupidity of your opinion.
Boris is showing just how trustworthy the political brexiteers can be.
PS it is obvious that Derek is intelligent and articulate and has been consistent in his views. Trying to imply he is anything else will only make posters who do so look silly.
AC43 said:
Derek Smith said:
It probably shows a weakness in my character to say I will enjoy her gradual destruction - in all probability, nothing is certain in politics, not even brexit - but I don't care. I'm going to relish it.
Quite understandable given what you've experienced - I'd feel the same way.Theresa May became Home secretary in 2010 under the new coalition Government by which time he was retired 5 years.
So what exactly did Derek experience under May?
I used to enjoy some of Derek's posts in the early days of PH, but he is now so negative on pretty much every subject I struggle to read his posts.
///ajd said:
The only stupidity is from anyone saying "ha look EU army now, told you so". It exposes a real lack of even basic logical analysis.
Boris is showing just how trustworthy the political brexiteers can be.
PS it is obvious that Derek is intelligent and articulate and has been consistent in his views. Trying to imply he is anything else will only make posters who do so look silly.
You miss the point as usual. Nobody cares if there's an EU army now because we're not going to be in it. Boris is showing just how trustworthy the political brexiteers can be.
PS it is obvious that Derek is intelligent and articulate and has been consistent in his views. Trying to imply he is anything else will only make posters who do so look silly.
jsf said:
Derek retired from the Police in 2005 working the last years of his service under a Labour government.
Theresa May became Home secretary in 2010 under the new coalition Government by which time he was retired 5 years.
So what exactly did Derek experience under May?
I used to enjoy some of Derek's posts in the early days of PH, but he is now so negative on pretty much every subject I struggle to read his posts.
He really should just stick to writing anecdotes about his service rather than continue alluding that he is still serving. Theresa May became Home secretary in 2010 under the new coalition Government by which time he was retired 5 years.
So what exactly did Derek experience under May?
I used to enjoy some of Derek's posts in the early days of PH, but he is now so negative on pretty much every subject I struggle to read his posts.
bmw535i said:
You miss the point as usual. Nobody cares if there's an EU army now because we're not going to be in it.
I'm afraid you miss both points.Those that suggest the recent EU army debates confirm we would have had it if we stayed in continue to be wrong and fundamentally fail to grasp how brexit has already changed EU dynamics
You should care if there is an EU army, especially one we will have reduced influence on. If you genuinely don't care you can't have any real grasp of international and military politics and UK influence. The latter would not surprise me.
As we seem to be talking more about the EU Army than a U-Turn now, there are a couple of articles posted on Reuters yesterday.
The first talks about funding the EU defence spending and proposes a 90 million euro (small beer as no doubt someone will tell me) investment from the general EU budget from 2017-2019. Yes, I know, we do fund defence research already from the budget but it's interesting to see they want to push up the contribution before we leave. Perhaps they'll spend it all in the UK ?
Secondly this link http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-defence-chrono... is interesting because it's a very neat summary of the long path for the European defence program. I didn't know for example that in 2007 we formed "Rapid-reaction forces of about 1,500 soldiers, called EU Battlegroups, are formed under control of the Council of the European Union."
Back on thread, I see that both France and Germany are distancing themselves from Sarkozy's idea of inventing a new treaty to keep the UK on board. Apparently "The French and German governments have said they view Brexit as irreversible".
With a laughable "deal" for Cameron, some of which was revoked by Junckers before the referendum vote, no chance of treaty changes and a very poor record of "reform from within" it's clear that they are better off if we leave. They just don't want to break out the champagne until we're gone.
The first talks about funding the EU defence spending and proposes a 90 million euro (small beer as no doubt someone will tell me) investment from the general EU budget from 2017-2019. Yes, I know, we do fund defence research already from the budget but it's interesting to see they want to push up the contribution before we leave. Perhaps they'll spend it all in the UK ?
Secondly this link http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-defence-chrono... is interesting because it's a very neat summary of the long path for the European defence program. I didn't know for example that in 2007 we formed "Rapid-reaction forces of about 1,500 soldiers, called EU Battlegroups, are formed under control of the Council of the European Union."
Back on thread, I see that both France and Germany are distancing themselves from Sarkozy's idea of inventing a new treaty to keep the UK on board. Apparently "The French and German governments have said they view Brexit as irreversible".
With a laughable "deal" for Cameron, some of which was revoked by Junckers before the referendum vote, no chance of treaty changes and a very poor record of "reform from within" it's clear that they are better off if we leave. They just don't want to break out the champagne until we're gone.
///ajd said:
bmw535i said:
You miss the point as usual. Nobody cares if there's an EU army now because we're not going to be in it.
I'm afraid you miss both points.Those that suggest the recent EU army debates confirm we would have had it if we stayed in continue to be wrong and fundamentally fail to grasp how brexit has already changed EU dynamics
You should care if there is an EU army, especially one we will have reduced influence on. If you genuinely don't care you can't have any real grasp of international and military politics and UK influence. The latter would not surprise me.
///ajd said:
don'tbesilly said:
Point 1- Boris has a penchant for Turkish Delight, he's worried about possible increased costs.
My response is as daft as your post.
PS: It's remarkable because it shows the machiavellian nature of the EU.
It's also remarkable, probably more so , because of the stupidity of your opinion.
The only stupidity is from anyone saying "ha look EU army now, told you so". It exposes a real lack of even basic logical analysis.My response is as daft as your post.
PS: It's remarkable because it shows the machiavellian nature of the EU.
It's also remarkable, probably more so , because of the stupidity of your opinion.
Boris is showing just how trustworthy the political brexiteers can be.
PS it is obvious that Derek is intelligent and articulate and has been consistent in his views. Trying to imply he is anything else will only make posters who do so look silly.
///ajd said:
The only stupidity is from anyone saying "ha look EU army now, told you so". It exposes a real lack of even basic logical analysis.
You obviously didn't understand the earlier exchange regarding the EU army and the double standards this exposed about the EU's stance, it wasn't about your pathetic and childish whine "told you so". You might think using clever words such as "logical analysis" makes you appear clever, the reality is that it marks you out as being dumber than dumb and by some margin.///ajd said:
Boris is showing just how trustworthy the political brexiteers can be.
You're just confirming what I wrote in the second part of my last sentence above.Even were it the case he has a lot to learn, Boris doesn't come close to the machinations of the EU.
///ajd said:
PS it is obvious that Derek is intelligent and articulate and has been consistent in his views. Trying to imply he is anything else will only make posters who do so look silly.
I'm sure Derek is touched,perhaps moved, and certainly flattered by your adulation, some would think it disingenuous to suggest that the adoration and hero status you bestow upon him has anything to do with his bias and opinion mirroring your own, you probably had these feelings quite some time prior to any suggestion of a referendum on the UK leaving the EU.Despite your admiring defence of Derek, there are many other intelligent and articulate posters on this thread, and others, who disagree with your heroes opinions, which in the main they are,just opinions.
Your hero like worship does nothing to change that, and disagreeing doesn't make them look silly, it does make you look silly for suggesting such. I'll let others comment on consistency.
I would like to think that despite your fawning support, Derek, and being as you describe him, would not support or condone your odious,snidey,sneery,divisive and repeated comments aligning leave voters with football hooligans,criminals and of being racist, xenophobic,unintelligent thugs.
I'd like to think he would see them as disgraceful as I and others do, his lack of comment on your previous shameful posts would perhaps suggest that this is the case.
Edited by don'tbesilly on Thursday 29th September 08:11
b2hbm said:
As we seem to be talking more about the EU Army than a U-Turn now, there are a couple of articles posted on Reuters yesterday.
The first talks about funding the EU defence spending and proposes a 90 million euro (small beer as no doubt someone will tell me) investment from the general EU budget from 2017-2019. Yes, I know, we do fund defence research already from the budget but it's interesting to see they want to push up the contribution before we leave. Perhaps they'll spend it all in the UK ?
Secondly this link http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-defence-chrono... is interesting because it's a very neat summary of the long path for the European defence program. I didn't know for example that in 2007 we formed "Rapid-reaction forces of about 1,500 soldiers, called EU Battlegroups, are formed under control of the Council of the European Union."
I snipped your post if only to link your first point to an article backing up the debate on the EU armed force, this article which I read yesterday,is what Reuters is referring to:The first talks about funding the EU defence spending and proposes a 90 million euro (small beer as no doubt someone will tell me) investment from the general EU budget from 2017-2019. Yes, I know, we do fund defence research already from the budget but it's interesting to see they want to push up the contribution before we leave. Perhaps they'll spend it all in the UK ?
Secondly this link http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-defence-chrono... is interesting because it's a very neat summary of the long path for the European defence program. I didn't know for example that in 2007 we formed "Rapid-reaction forces of about 1,500 soldiers, called EU Battlegroups, are formed under control of the Council of the European Union."
https://www.euractiv.com/section/security/opinion/...
AC43 said:
Thankyou for your support.
(although I guess from the tone of your post that you perhaps haven't noticed the massive division in the Tory party over the last 30 years over Europe and the huge repercussions that's it's had)
Which is in fact a split in the WHOLE COUNTRY, which thus shows the discussion is/was needed, as was the referendum.(although I guess from the tone of your post that you perhaps haven't noticed the massive division in the Tory party over the last 30 years over Europe and the huge repercussions that's it's had)
The question has now been answered and the PM/government will now act on the result to complete the process.
TM will do this/thinks that is all b
ks, she is playing the cards and holding them close, this is the clever thing to do at this stage.....wait and see and then at the next GE you can vote on the politicians performance. (Which you cannot do to any effect whilst within the EU)Edited by Stickyfinger on Thursday 29th September 09:11
///ajd said:
...the discussion on the EU army is quite remarkable. The fact that the EU is pressing ahead is because we are leaving. Brexit CREATED the EU army we were previously blocking. If any brexiteers didn't want one, face the facts - you helped make it happen.
Ridiculous analysis. I think the opinion of most people who voted for Brexit would be that the EU can have an army if they want to, but we do not want our armed forces to be part of it. I think you know that.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff