Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result

[don'tbesilly]

don4l said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

don4l said:

It's good to see politicians and the media squaring up to the fact that a "Hard Brexit", or "Clean Break" is in Britain's best interest.

In fact, it's beginning to look like they are going to follow my two step exit plan.

It isn't and they aren't.

I'm afraid that it is. It's all over the media today. In fact, Eddie Mair was talking about it yesterday.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3813504/Br...

Question Time will be interesting tonight. The audience will, no doubt, be packed with panicing Remainers.

You might find it hard to find any remain supporters in the audience this evening, the studio has been set up in Boston,Lincolnshire.

[don'tbesilly]

SilverSixer said:

don4l said:

Question Time will be interesting tonight. The audience will, no doubt, be packed with panicing Remainers.

I love comments like this. Despite winning the referendum, which entailed the connivance of a large part of the nation's media in the scam, the Leave lobby STILL think there's a media conspiracy against them.

Keep 'em coming, it's comedy gold.

I'd agree, your post was priceless

[anonymous-user]

PurpleMoonlight said:

And the staunch leavers are lapping it up.

While the remainers remain in denial

[AC43]

Greg66 said:

SilverSixer said:

AC43 said:

Meanwhile the "Three Brexiteers" are taking the lack of immediate financial disaster as some sort of ultimate vindication and whipping their supporters up into a frenzy of one-eyed nationalist jingoism not seen since Farage was last seen holding court in a pub with a pint in one hand and fag in the other.

Fox is saying today that we're going to get trade with the EU which is freer than the free trade we already have. Freer. more free than 'free' ever was. WTF? We're going to need a new word, and redefine the old one if 'free' no longer covers the concept of being as free as something can be. Zxfrft, maybe. I think I've head Boris Johnson use that one so at least he'll understand it.

Has nobody thought of having Fox sectioned?

Yes, I found this all rather odd too. Fox is doing his best to paint himself as being some distance from reality.

I think he's been eating too many freedom fries.

[AC43]

bmw535i said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

And the staunch leavers are lapping it up.

While the remainers remain in denial

Not in denial.

Just increasingly appalled by the outcome.

[Stickyfinger]

AC43 said:

Not in denial.

Just increasingly appalled by the outcome.

what outcome ?
would that be wet sheets in the morning ?

[AC43]

Stickyfinger said:

AC43 said:

Not in denial.

Just increasingly appalled by the outcome.

what outcome ?

LOL.

The possible outcome if the Three Brexiteers actually believe what they are saying* and push through what they claim to want**

• Boris of course spent many years of his life promoting the economic health of London before detonating all his good work in the single-minded pursuit of power. So we know he's a lying c***. gowever, Given their track record over the years, there is strong possibility that Fox and Davis DO believe what they are saying or at least that they are borderline certifiable. One of the two

• Whether or not they can push the final solution through or not is a moot point as the backlash from industry will be vast (exluding Wetherspoon who's got his 10am drinkers to think of and Dyson who's busy filling his building with examples of British patriotism).

So no, there is no outcome of course and it may all be brinksmanship but it's a reckless game these people are playing with our future prosperity.

[Stickyfinger]

people are playing

ask the Eurocraps about that one.....

[PurpleMoonlight]

Stickyfinger said:

what outcome ?

The recklessness of those in charge of the leaving process is truly astonishing and is making the UK a laughing stock on the international stage.

[Zod]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Stickyfinger said:

what outcome ?

The recklessness of those in charge of the leaving process is truly astonishing and is making the UK a laughing stock on the international stage.

What makes it even worse is that they are matched by the EU itself, with the combination of Juncker and Barnier (who announced this week that he intends to conduct negotiations in French).

If May is sensible, she will sack Fox and Davies and negotiate directly with France and Germany after their respective elections next year, ignoring the Commission pretty much altogether.

[Stickyfinger]

PurpleMoonlight said:

The recklessness of those in charge of the leaving process is truly astonishing and is making the UK a laughing stock on the international stage.

WaaaaaHahaha

more panicwetting

Like you know anything other than what you read in your little panic sphere

Edited by Stickyfinger on Thursday 29th September 17:42

[b2hbm]

London424 said:

SilverSixer said:

Phase 1 of the court case against the Government's wish to use royal prerogative to pass Article 50 without a parliamentary vote, has been lost by the Government:

https://www.bindmans.com/news/peoples-challenge-gr...

A quick google suggests that only The Guardian are reporting this. Surely this is worthy of wider coverage?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/28/g...

Edited by SilverSixer on Thursday 29th September 11:52

I'm not a legal expert but they have't 'lost' anything in terms of the process have they?

They've just been told that the papers need to be published in advance and can't be kept confidential.

Have I read that correctly?

Yes, as far as I can see you're correct.

The government have been told to publish their case and frankly from what I read that's nothing new. TM told her reasoning why they would declare A50 without Parliament and from what I saw nothing has changed. I can't understand why this action was bought and I certainly wouldn't describe it as a victory for "stage 1".

[b2hbm]

don'tbesilly said:

You might find it hard to find any remain supporters in the audience this evening, the studio has been set up in Boston,Lincolnshire.

Really ? I'll watch out for bodies hanging from lamposts on my way out tomorrow morning..... with a 70+% vote for Leave and one of the highest in the country, it'll be interesting how the BBC work out a neutral audience. Buses ?

[don'tbesilly]

AC43 said:

don'tbesilly said:

You're allegiance to Ken Clarke's analysis is not surprising given his love for the EU.

I wouldn't say I have an "allegiance" to Ken Clark i just spotted the news article and thought it was relevant. Neither would I say he has a "love" of the EU.

His view seems to be that, imperfect as it may be, the EU represents a good vehicle for a very important part of our commerce and that rolling back the relationship is more than likely going to damage that.

BTW I've never once said that "I love the EU". I like certain aspects of it and don't like others. But I don't dislike those parts enough to risk the trade because trade = profits and profits = tax we can spend in the UK.

EDIT; and by the way I though the "opinion poll" comment was amusing and true in that none of this is subject to debate in the HOC or HOL.

If you think about it the proccces was more like voting in The Voice or the X Factor than the normal way a country would debate and decide upon monumental constitutional change.

Edited by AC43 on Thursday 29th September 15:55

Missed this, sorry.

I didn't say you had a an allegiance to Ken Clarke himself, just his analysis, and I disagree with your opinion of Clarke's admiration for the EU, perhaps love was the wrong word, but I think you got my meaning.

I of course disagree with Clarke's views on the EU full stop,so in many ways it's a roundabout argument as it's all been said previously and repeatedly.

I never said you 'love' the EU, and you are of course entitled to your opinion which if nothing else is honest, but we would disagree on most of what you opine.

I find myself agreeing with Clarke's opinion of the referendum, but as I've said before, Cameron promised one, he was told not to, and for I imagine a myriad of reasons..Tory division..UKIP, the rise of,...+ other reasons.

Cameron's advisor/s told him how to present the opposing questions (albeit in the same sentence , and we are where we are as a result of a monumental *(insert adjective)* by Cameron, because he was convinced as were many others, myself included (despite my vote to leave), that the result was to Leave.

I was as shocked as many others that leave had come out ahead, astonished,disbelieving,shocked, don't come close, I won't deny a warm fuzzy feeling though

History now, onwards an upwards for some, doom and gloom for others, hey ho!

[don'tbesilly]

b2hbm said:

don'tbesilly said:

You might find it hard to find any remain supporters in the audience this evening, the studio has been set up in Boston,Lincolnshire.

Really ? I'll watch out for bodies hanging from lamposts on my way out tomorrow morning..... with a 70+% vote for Leave and one of the highest in the country, it'll be interesting how the BBC work out a neutral audience. Buses ?

The BBC have had their researchers searching the locale for the last two weeks, most of those spoken to don't understand the language, and the researchers can't understand the responses.

Meanwhile the locals are walking around dragging their knuckles, shouting profanities, and mugging anyone who comes close.
Apparently the average IQ of the townspeople is measured on the fingers of two hands, and when asked if they want to take part in the programme by the researchers, the researchers get the 'finger' with an 'H' tattoo showing, so you know which letters are on the other digits.

The planned buses were stolen, some were firebombed, and one was spotted on a ferry on it's way to Calais, allegedly filled with inflatable dinghies and with it's windows blacked out, it has yet to be seen returning.

(*This is a parody for those in doubt*)

[ATG]

don'tbesilly said:

Apparently the average IQ of the townspeople is measured on the fingers of two hands, ...

Max score of 13 points for most of them then

[anonymous-user]

Greg66 said:

jsf said:

Having just read both documents, I will be very surprised if the government lose the case based on how the Crown prerogative is used as a matter of course when dealing with any treaty matters. The treaty to join the EEC was signed using Crown prerogative as were the following treaties such as Lisbon, Parliament only got involved at a latter stage when legislation was required to ratify what is in the treaties.

The whole case is basically an argument that the government has no right to use the Crown prerogative, which is clearly nonsense. The case in no way asks for the referendum result not to be respected or acted upon, its purely an argument over who issues the order to trigger article 50, the Crown or Parliament.

If they want an argument about the British constitution, which is all this boils down to, I'm not sure this is the correct fight to achieve that. Some nice £ being earned by the lawyers though.

The case is about whether the Govt can use the prerogative to do something that in substance amounts to a repeal of an Act of Parliament (the 1973 Act); something that conventional wisdom says only Parliament can do. On one view it is quite surprising to suggest that the Govt could use the prerogative to repeal legislation, as that would provide it with an incredibly broad executive power, far outstripping the Commons.

If successful it puts triggering A50 into the hands of the HoC, which will have to have regard to what is legally an advisory referendum.

AIUI it is pretty much uncharted territory.

Have you read the documents released today? I ask that because the Government specifically covers off your suggestion that this case is about using Crown prerogative to repeal the 1972 Act in paragraph 43. That is not what the Crown prerogative will do, all it will do is trigger a process in a treaty, something that is the absolute norm for the Crown to do without the need for further legislation via Parliament or a vote by MP's.

The Government states specifically that when the process of leaving the EU is complete, as set out in the treaty, Parliament will then be involved in the repeal of the 72 Act of Parliament.

[FN2TypeR]

Let them vote it down in Parliament, where do they think that will get them in the long run? We all know who that will benefit when the next general election rolls around.



And nobody wants that to happen, let's face it.

[Derek Smith]

SilverSixer said:

Phase 1 of the court case against the Government's wish to use royal prerogative to pass Article 50 without a parliamentary vote, has been lost by the Government:

https://www.bindmans.com/news/peoples-challenge-gr...

A quick google suggests that only The Guardian are reporting this. Surely this is worthy of wider coverage?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/28/g...

It would appear that the government wanted to keep their legal defence secret until the case, leaving the other side unable to plan. That sort of ambush makes it difficult for the other side. You can't blame the government for trying but it might lead to the suspicion that they are a bit concerned that they are on dodgy ground.

I don't know enough about such cases to say whether the government's lack of disclosure, or rather their intent, is the norm or not. It seems unfair but then, so much in law is.

[Stickyfinger]

ATG said:

don'tbesilly said:

Apparently the average IQ of the townspeople is measured on the fingers of two hands, ...

Max score of 13 points for most of them then

Hey, they have a plan, all those webbed feet will come in useful with global warming round the corner