Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result
Discussion
///ajd said:
Seems like the EU are calling our bluff already.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/30/u...
"Go on then, they say. Go hard if you want to." [Stifled chuckle].
Love it don't you.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/30/u...
"Go on then, they say. Go hard if you want to." [Stifled chuckle].
You must run around the room like a demented banshee wailing "I told you so" when you read the Guardian.
///ajd said:
Seems like the EU are calling our bluff already.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/30/u...
"Go on then, they say. Go hard if you want to." [Stifled chuckle].
Why do you hate the UK adj, why do you want things to go bad? https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/30/u...
"Go on then, they say. Go hard if you want to." [Stifled chuckle].
Re the bus thing, really - is that all you've got, do you still fail to see it was just a symbol? Don't you think every single carefully colluded and fabricated lie about imminent economic disaster if we voted to leave by just about every major politically and financially vested elite in the UN/EU/IMF is just slightly more important an issue than a bit of rhetoric painted on a bus?
As I said at the outset, Brexit didn't need to organise an effective campaign, every time remainers opened their mendacious despicable mouths they showed everyone exactly why we needed to be under the thumb of fewer of them, not more.
It's a bright future for the UK (well compared to the rest of the EU anyway), clearing you don't want any part of it because of some perverse twisted political resentment. Well shut the door on your way out.
don'tbesilly said:
///ajd said:
Seems like the EU are calling our bluff already.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/30/u...
"Go on then, they say. Go hard if you want to." [Stifled chuckle].
Love it don't you.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/30/u...
"Go on then, they say. Go hard if you want to." [Stifled chuckle].
You must run around the room like a demented banshee wailing "I told you so" when you read the Guardian.
It's a total train wreck.
Cameron never intended the vote to end up with us leaving, as he knew it would be a disaster.
He did it to try and reduce UKIP votes and control his own party's tiresome infighting. That's it.
It's just been a huge huge miscalculation. A backfire. But no-one wants to admit it.
3 months in now. Where are we going again? Has no-one decided yet? Still no plan?
Will we have another 3 months of silence from May?
///ajd said:
don'tbesilly said:
///ajd said:
Seems like the EU are calling our bluff already.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/30/u...
"Go on then, they say. Go hard if you want to." [Stifled chuckle].
Love it don't you.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/30/u...
"Go on then, they say. Go hard if you want to." [Stifled chuckle].
You must run around the room like a demented banshee wailing "I told you so" when you read the Guardian.
It's a total train wreck.
Cameron never intended the vote to end up with us leaving, as he knew it would be a disaster.
He did it to try and reduce UKIP votes and control his own party's tiresome infighting. That's it.
It's just been a huge huge miscalculation. A backfire. But no-one wants to admit it.
3 months in now. Where are we going again? Has no-one decided yet? Still no plan?
Will we have another 3 months of silence from May?
Cameron never intended...? He shouldn't have called the referendum then. It's all water under the bridge now. Carry on. We (Leavers) would have done had we 'lost!'
CMD is now history, he's even gone from here (Witney).
Be interesting to see who wins his seat on the 20th. I just got the bumf from the candidate who wants to take his place (it was post marked Cardiff? - the Tory candidate is a 'young' barrister, and has only been in the town for '5 mins', having come from Winchester. I'm no Labour supporter but the local Labour candidate Enright could run him a closer second this time - he came second to Cameron in 2015.
http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2016/09...
I think it is correct to assert that the powers that be never expected a leave victory. Clearly shown by the lack of plan for the aftermath.
We are where we are regardless of what side anyone was on and everyone had their reasons for voting whichever way or not at all.
I think this thread now needs to concentrate far more on what would be an acceptable outcome to everyone. There is no doubting in my mind that TM has the hardest job in UK politics for a long time to deliver an outcome that people accept and puts us in a better position.
We are where we are regardless of what side anyone was on and everyone had their reasons for voting whichever way or not at all.
I think this thread now needs to concentrate far more on what would be an acceptable outcome to everyone. There is no doubting in my mind that TM has the hardest job in UK politics for a long time to deliver an outcome that people accept and puts us in a better position.
///ajd said:
don'tbesilly said:
///ajd said:
Seems like the EU are calling our bluff already.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/30/u...
"Go on then, they say. Go hard if you want to." [Stifled chuckle].
Love it don't you.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/30/u...
"Go on then, they say. Go hard if you want to." [Stifled chuckle].
You must run around the room like a demented banshee wailing "I told you so" when you read the Guardian.
It's a total train wreck.
Cameron never intended the vote to end up with us leaving, as he knew it would be a disaster.
He did it to try and reduce UKIP votes and control his own party's tiresome infighting. That's it.
It's just been a huge huge miscalculation. A backfire. But no-one wants to admit it.
3 months in now. Where are we going again? Has no-one decided yet? Still no plan?
Will we have another 3 months of silence from May?
I voted Remain and as much as I'd like a situation similar to the status quo, not only do we have to leave but sadly we have to leave decisively. At an institutional level, they (the EU parliament, the council etc..etc) despise the UK - so let's just disrupt and leave on our own terms. Even if we had stayed, the simmering contempt would have resulted in a stitch up or self-inflicted retreat at some stage.
Anything other than a decisive brexit will be portrayed as ignoring the democratic will. We should therefore go and deal with the consequences. Personally, I fear it won't end well but have to see just how things pan out if we really put sovereignty and immigration control above everything else.
paul789 said:
///ajd said:
don'tbesilly said:
///ajd said:
Seems like the EU are calling our bluff already.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/30/u...
"Go on then, they say. Go hard if you want to." [Stifled chuckle].
Love it don't you.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/30/u...
"Go on then, they say. Go hard if you want to." [Stifled chuckle].
You must run around the room like a demented banshee wailing "I told you so" when you read the Guardian.
It's a total train wreck.
Cameron never intended the vote to end up with us leaving, as he knew it would be a disaster.
He did it to try and reduce UKIP votes and control his own party's tiresome infighting. That's it.
It's just been a huge huge miscalculation. A backfire. But no-one wants to admit it.
3 months in now. Where are we going again? Has no-one decided yet? Still no plan?
Will we have another 3 months of silence from May?
I voted Remain and as much as I'd like a situation similar to the status quo, not only do we have to leave but sadly we have to leave decisively. At an institutional level, they (the EU parliament, the council etc..etc) despise the UK - so let's just disrupt and leave on our own terms. Even if we had stayed, the simmering contempt would have resulted in a stitch up or self-inflicted retreat at some stage.
Anything other than a decisive brexit will be portrayed as ignoring the democratic will. We should therefore go and deal with the consequences. Personally, I fear it won't end well but have to see just how things pan out if we really put sovereignty and immigration control above everything else.
I disagree with your reason/s for wanting to remain, and to a degree your last sentence, however I salute your pragmatism.
Your post is the most sensible,and by some margin,the best I've seen written by a leave voter since the result of the referendum was announced.
There is a compromise on free movement to be had, the EU need to stop the bullying and fearmongering tactics and I believe we can all walk away with an agreement, it WON'T please everyone, but acceptable to most in my opinion.
don4l said:
As most of you know, I voted for Brexit.
Some of you find it difficult to understand my decision.
You say that I am ignoring the wishes of young people.
I would suggest that us "oldies" also have value.
I have reached that stage of my life where I need a little more medical attention than I used to.
So, I would like to see an extra £350Mn a week spent on the NHS.
Why should all the money be spent on the young?
Do some people really still believe the £350M per week lie?Some of you find it difficult to understand my decision.
You say that I am ignoring the wishes of young people.
I would suggest that us "oldies" also have value.
I have reached that stage of my life where I need a little more medical attention than I used to.
So, I would like to see an extra £350Mn a week spent on the NHS.
Why should all the money be spent on the young?
PurpleMoonlight said:
don4l said:
As most of you know, I voted for Brexit.
Some of you find it difficult to understand my decision.
You say that I am ignoring the wishes of young people.
I would suggest that us "oldies" also have value.
I have reached that stage of my life where I need a little more medical attention than I used to.
So, I would like to see an extra £350Mn a week spent on the NHS.
Why should all the money be spent on the young?
Do some people really still believe the £350M per week lie?Some of you find it difficult to understand my decision.
You say that I am ignoring the wishes of young people.
I would suggest that us "oldies" also have value.
I have reached that stage of my life where I need a little more medical attention than I used to.
So, I would like to see an extra £350Mn a week spent on the NHS.
Why should all the money be spent on the young?
Some of it could be used to teach the doctors to speak English... and Polish.
///ajd said:
Seems like the EU are calling our bluff already.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/30/u...
"Go on then, they say. Go hard if you want to." [Stifled chuckle].
Well done that man ... another Guardian link.... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/30/u...
"Go on then, they say. Go hard if you want to." [Stifled chuckle].
Mr GrimNasty said:
Why do you hate the UK adj, why do you want things to go bad?
Re the bus thing, really - is that all you've got, do you still fail to see it was just a symbol? Don't you think every single carefully colluded and fabricated lie about imminent economic disaster if we voted to leave by just about every major politically and financially vested elite in the UN/EU/IMF is just slightly more important an issue than a bit of rhetoric painted on a bus?
As I said at the outset, Brexit didn't need to organise an effective campaign, every time remainers opened their mendacious despicable mouths they showed everyone exactly why we needed to be under the thumb of fewer of them, not more.
It's a bright future for the UK (well compared to the rest of the EU anyway), clearing you don't want any part of it because of some perverse twisted political resentment. Well shut the door on your way out.
Ajd is fixated on the bus and racism. He has bitten twice now over this thread when I've posted an obviously flippant remark about the bus. (Designed to test his humour)Re the bus thing, really - is that all you've got, do you still fail to see it was just a symbol? Don't you think every single carefully colluded and fabricated lie about imminent economic disaster if we voted to leave by just about every major politically and financially vested elite in the UN/EU/IMF is just slightly more important an issue than a bit of rhetoric painted on a bus?
As I said at the outset, Brexit didn't need to organise an effective campaign, every time remainers opened their mendacious despicable mouths they showed everyone exactly why we needed to be under the thumb of fewer of them, not more.
It's a bright future for the UK (well compared to the rest of the EU anyway), clearing you don't want any part of it because of some perverse twisted political resentment. Well shut the door on your way out.
His droning about the farage posters etc will come around again before long - it's an obsession. He has also previously stated that he can't wait for it all to go wrong so he can say, "I told you so". I think it's pretty sad that a man would be happy to see things go wrong just to prove a point on a motoring forum. It gives you a sense of what he's like. He even said that my views I express on here gives the British army a bad name.
///ajd said:
don'tbesilly said:
///ajd said:
Seems like the EU are calling our bluff already.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/30/u...
"Go on then, they say. Go hard if you want to." [Stifled chuckle].
Love it don't you.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/30/u...
"Go on then, they say. Go hard if you want to." [Stifled chuckle].
You must run around the room like a demented banshee wailing "I told you so" when you read the Guardian.
It's a total train wreck.
Cameron never intended the vote to end up with us leaving, as he knew it would be a disaster.
He did it to try and reduce UKIP votes and control his own party's tiresome infighting. That's it.
It's just been a huge huge miscalculation. A backfire. But no-one wants to admit it.
3 months in now. Where are we going again? Has no-one decided yet? Still no plan?
Will we have another 3 months of silence from May?
bmw535i said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
Why do you hate the UK adj, why do you want things to go bad?
Re the bus thing, really - is that all you've got, do you still fail to see it was just a symbol? Don't you think every single carefully colluded and fabricated lie about imminent economic disaster if we voted to leave by just about every major politically and financially vested elite in the UN/EU/IMF is just slightly more important an issue than a bit of rhetoric painted on a bus?
As I said at the outset, Brexit didn't need to organise an effective campaign, every time remainers opened their mendacious despicable mouths they showed everyone exactly why we needed to be under the thumb of fewer of them, not more.
It's a bright future for the UK (well compared to the rest of the EU anyway), clearing you don't want any part of it because of some perverse twisted political resentment. Well shut the door on your way out.
Ajd is fixated on the bus and racism. He has bitten twice now over this thread when I've posted an obviously flippant remark about the bus. (Designed to test his humour)Re the bus thing, really - is that all you've got, do you still fail to see it was just a symbol? Don't you think every single carefully colluded and fabricated lie about imminent economic disaster if we voted to leave by just about every major politically and financially vested elite in the UN/EU/IMF is just slightly more important an issue than a bit of rhetoric painted on a bus?
As I said at the outset, Brexit didn't need to organise an effective campaign, every time remainers opened their mendacious despicable mouths they showed everyone exactly why we needed to be under the thumb of fewer of them, not more.
It's a bright future for the UK (well compared to the rest of the EU anyway), clearing you don't want any part of it because of some perverse twisted political resentment. Well shut the door on your way out.
His droning about the farage posters etc will come around again before long - it's an obsession. He has also previously stated that he can't wait for it all to go wrong so he can say, "I told you so". I think it's pretty sad that a man would be happy to see things go wrong just to prove a point on a motoring forum. It gives you a sense of what he's like. He even said that my views I express on here gives the British army a bad name.
Edited by powerstroke on Saturday 1st October 06:54
paul789 said:
Well, looking at articles such as the one you have linked, there is no plan because there's nothing to be negotiated - the positions are entrenched and when it comes down to it, irreconcilable. The UK wants a watering down of FMOL and continued single market access. The EU have consistently, publicly stated - no compromise; the four freedoms can't be watered down.
I voted Remain and as much as I'd like a situation similar to the status quo, not only do we have to leave but sadly we have to leave decisively. At an institutional level, they (the EU parliament, the council etc..etc) despise the UK - so let's just disrupt and leave on our own terms. Even if we had stayed, the simmering contempt would have resulted in a stitch up or self-inflicted retreat at some stage.
Anything other than a decisive brexit will be portrayed as ignoring the democratic will. We should therefore go and deal with the consequences. Personally, I fear it won't end well but have to see just how things pan out if we really put sovereignty and immigration control above everything else.
We're from opposite camps (I was Leave) but the attitude from your post is pretty much exactly what the country needs right now. It's over. It's not going to change, we just have to make the best of it one way or the other. I voted Remain and as much as I'd like a situation similar to the status quo, not only do we have to leave but sadly we have to leave decisively. At an institutional level, they (the EU parliament, the council etc..etc) despise the UK - so let's just disrupt and leave on our own terms. Even if we had stayed, the simmering contempt would have resulted in a stitch up or self-inflicted retreat at some stage.
Anything other than a decisive brexit will be portrayed as ignoring the democratic will. We should therefore go and deal with the consequences. Personally, I fear it won't end well but have to see just how things pan out if we really put sovereignty and immigration control above everything else.
I would prefer to have a trade deal because Europe is next door and whatever happens we will still buy & sell to each other, so it makes sense to be friends. Hence I would like to see what's now being termed the "soft" option.
But I'm slowly changing.
With the rhetoric coming out now from the EU they are either playing tough for the crowds or maybe they truly believe what they're saying, but that outlook is pushing the UK further towards a clean and complete break. (or the don4l plan as it's commonly known in Downing St
) There was a debate on R4 the other night with two folks arguing between Hard & Soft options. When it started I was ambivalent but with slight lean towards soft exit. By the time it was finished, I was nodding my head and thinking, "maybe hard is the best way forward". I suspect that is going through other minds as well, and that's why we're seeing the revival of Project Fear from some parts of our industry who may lose out.
Yes, "may" lose out, nobody can say they will until we know what the deal is and what subsidies the UK will allow to support industry. Just like the EU CAP allows the French farmers to carry on as they do.
powerstroke said:
bmw535i said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
Why do you hate the UK adj, why do you want things to go bad?
Re the bus thing, really - is that all you've got, do you still fail to see it was just a symbol? Don't you think every single carefully colluded and fabricated lie about imminent economic disaster if we voted to leave by just about every major politically and financially vested elite in the UN/EU/IMF is just slightly more important an issue than a bit of rhetoric painted on a bus?
As I said at the outset, Brexit didn't need to organise an effective campaign, every time remainers opened their mendacious despicable mouths they showed everyone exactly why we needed to be under the thumb of fewer of them, not more.
It's a bright future for the UK (well compared to the rest of the EU anyway), clearing you don't want any part of it because of some perverse twisted political resentment. Well shut the door on your way out.
Ajd is fixated on the bus and racism. He has bitten twice now over this thread when I've posted an obviously flippant remark about the bus. (Designed to test his humour)Re the bus thing, really - is that all you've got, do you still fail to see it was just a symbol? Don't you think every single carefully colluded and fabricated lie about imminent economic disaster if we voted to leave by just about every major politically and financially vested elite in the UN/EU/IMF is just slightly more important an issue than a bit of rhetoric painted on a bus?
As I said at the outset, Brexit didn't need to organise an effective campaign, every time remainers opened their mendacious despicable mouths they showed everyone exactly why we needed to be under the thumb of fewer of them, not more.
It's a bright future for the UK (well compared to the rest of the EU anyway), clearing you don't want any part of it because of some perverse twisted political resentment. Well shut the door on your way out.
His droning about the farage posters etc will come around again before long - it's an obsession. He has also previously stated that he can't wait for it all to go wrong so he can say, "I told you so". I think it's pretty sad that a man would be happy to see things go wrong just to prove a point on a motoring forum. It gives you a sense of what he's like. He even said that my views I express on here gives the British army a bad name.
Edited by powerstroke on Saturday 1st October 06:54
It is cowardly to want to stop foreigners coming into your country.
It is anti success to go for Hard Brexit and make our car industry leave - or have to bribe them with tax payers money to stay.
On that note, can we set up some special tax codes so only brexiteers have to pay the incentives to keep Nissan & Toyota here?
PurpleMoonlight said:
don'tbesilly said:
Nissan, give them the 10% tariff we get back from BMW/Merc/Vag group when the EU play silly games.
Do you not realise that ultimately it is the UK consumer that will pay the tariffs not the EU manufacturer?As a consumer this sounds like a wonderfully progressive tax - I can't wait to pay more for nasty foreign goods to prop up a domestic industry that used to be world class but now needs taxpayer handouts to stop leaving.
My, how we will "improve" the country with such measures - sounds like a cracking idea, I'm sure they'll do it.
EU punters won't resent this at all.
Does anyone remember when the French used to burn UK lamb lorries? That will seem like a picnic compared to this muppetry - not that it would ever happen.
Ha ha ha I think ajd has got out of bed the wrong side today 
Here's more news to cheer you up:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/n...
Here's more news to cheer you up:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/n...
///ajd said:
No I don't love it.
It's a total train wreck.
Cameron never intended the vote to end up with us leaving, as he knew it would be a disaster.
He did it to try and reduce UKIP votes and control his own party's tiresome infighting. That's it.
I'd agree with the why he did it but don't fully agree with the idea that he thought it would be a disaster.It's a total train wreck.
Cameron never intended the vote to end up with us leaving, as he knew it would be a disaster.
He did it to try and reduce UKIP votes and control his own party's tiresome infighting. That's it.
I've heard the same thing independent from various political type acquaintances that Cameron thinks, always thought the EU was a crock of s
te. In fact, up to about 2 years ago he was more likely to support Leave. Hid decision to go with Remain was very much a "better off inside the tent" one and very nuanced at about 55/45 for In. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff