Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result
Discussion
alfie2244 said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
I supported the comment by ajd that often leavers posting eventually turn hostile and start throwing insults.
Given his postings, do you genuinely believe leavers turning hostile and throwing insults at your new found friend are totally unwarranted / unjustified? You are either stupid or desperate for friends if you do IMO.Sure I've discussed immigation and the motivations that drive the wish to control it, but they are just facts.
It is revealing how discussing these issues bring out so many insults.
It is reasonable to discuss whether controlling immigration is worth the economic pain - after all that may well become a question in the future in any potential u-turn, however unlikely that may be.
///ajd said:
alfie2244 said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
I supported the comment by ajd that often leavers posting eventually turn hostile and start throwing insults.
Given his postings, do you genuinely believe leavers turning hostile and throwing insults at your new found friend are totally unwarranted / unjustified? You are either stupid or desperate for friends if you do IMO.Sure I've discussed immigation and the motivations that drive the wish to control it, but they are just facts.
It is revealing how discussing these issues bring out so many insults.
It is reasonable to discuss whether controlling immigration is worth the economic pain - after all that may well become a question in the future in any potential u-turn, however unlikely that may be.
///ajd said:
Control is just a euphamism for keep out.
I know it. You know it.
Its seen as the acceptable way to talk about keeping foriegners out.
But its no different really.
That's my view and the fact you resort to insults reinforces it.
I know it. You know it.
Its seen as the acceptable way to talk about keeping foriegners out.
But its no different really.
That's my view and the fact you resort to insults reinforces it.
Mrr T said:
Your missing the point "hard" Brexit is no deal with the EU. It's back to WTO rules. No passporting, standard EU tariffs, exit customs union.
Nope, not missing any point. That's what the guy said and then explained why. The opposing speaker was for a "soft" exit and made such a hash of putting the case that on balance the first speaker won the debate IMO. In fact even now I'm wondering just why I thought we'd ever get a sensible "soft" option.But let's look at what else you're claiming eh ?
Mrr T said:
So that lots of jobs lost in financial services, Nissan etc, stopping investment in the UK,
You know this for a fact ? From this point in time it might look as if financial jobs will go but neither you nor I can say this will happen. We don't know how the new raft of financial regulations will play out yet, not a clue. You, and the numerous pundits writing financial articles are just guessing, plain and simple. Still, at least Mark Carney seems to think the long term prospects are looking up for the UK now, a U turn which is fairly significant, don't you think ?
Likewise I'm fed up of hearing how Nissan isn't going to invest any more in the UK. Just exactly where were Nissan going to invest ? I'm not interested in "well, we won't expand xxx" because unless there were specific plans approved to do so, that's just conjecture. Or are they just playing a game and touting for government grants, tax breaks, etc ?
Mrr T said:
emergency budget with large tax rises,
You have a hotline to the chancellor then, or do you expect Osborne to come back ?Mrr T said:
UK credit rating cut
A hotline to the credit agencies as well, your guess or just going on what reporters are saying ?Mrr T said:
further emergency budget with large cuts in expenditure.
You really must have a hotline to No. 11 then ?Mrr T said:
However, I am sure team leave will be happy we have stopped Johnny EU Foreigner coming here and not claiming our benefits.
And this last one is the reason my post sounds so aggressively worded. A statement that's both childish and silly beyond words. alfie2244 said:
///ajd said:
alfie2244 said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
I supported the comment by ajd that often leavers posting eventually turn hostile and start throwing insults.
Given his postings, do you genuinely believe leavers turning hostile and throwing insults at your new found friend are totally unwarranted / unjustified? You are either stupid or desperate for friends if you do IMO.Sure I've discussed immigation and the motivations that drive the wish to control it, but they are just facts.
It is revealing how discussing these issues bring out so many insults.
It is reasonable to discuss whether controlling immigration is worth the economic pain - after all that may well become a question in the future in any potential u-turn, however unlikely that may be.
///ajd said:
Control is just a euphamism for keep out.
I know it. You know it.
Its seen as the acceptable way to talk about keeping foriegners out.
But its no different really.
That's my view and the fact you resort to insults reinforces it.
I know it. You know it.
Its seen as the acceptable way to talk about keeping foriegners out.
But its no different really.
That's my view and the fact you resort to insults reinforces it.
PurpleMoonlight said:
This form of response just shows that you are intolerant of other peoples views.
It would be naive to think that for some 'control' does not mean 'exclusion'. I would wager that all National Front members voted leave.
So you keep saying - prove it and stop being so prejudicedIt would be naive to think that for some 'control' does not mean 'exclusion'. I would wager that all National Front members voted leave.
PurpleMoonlight said:
alfie2244 said:
On yer bike troll.
This form of response just shows that you are intolerant of other peoples views.It would be naive to think that for some 'control' does not mean 'exclusion'. I would wager that all National Front members voted leave.
I think it's worth quoting this bit from Ben Howlett from the Telegraph.
[quote=Ben Howlett in the Telegraph]"For many people, Brexit means more than Brexit. It is more than simply a case of sovereignty, or trade barriers, or settling old grudges from decades gone by. Brexit is about the roof over the heads of their family, the status of the workforce their business depends on, and the unifying link between their lives and 500 million other people." {/quote}
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/30/britain...
It illustrates why shouting 'Brexit means Brexit' or 'The plan is simply to leave' is not really an answer. In cases people's livelihoods, businesses and incomes will be dependant or certainly affected by leaving the single market, by restrictions on immigration and Brexit as a whole.
This isn't just the people that leaver's like to label as 'gravy train riders' who's income is solely dependant on the EU. It's bankers, engineers, welders, apprentices, accountants, small business owners, hauliers and a whole host of people that will be affected.
Everything looks rosy at the moment but nothing of substance has changed yet. PMI's etc for months past look rosy, but surveys looking at business sentiment looking forward paint an ominous picture for the UK.
So when people want answers to basic questions like "is the UK intending to remain in the single market?" that doesn't make them 'thick' or 'bedwetters'. There are genuine fears about what Brexit will mean, and just shouting 'Brexit means Brexit' does nothing to alleviate that. This isn't due to 'fearmongering' either. Leaving the EU and the single market in particular will be a massive political, legal and economic event that will change things forever in the space of a couple of years.
Don't you think that people have a right to worry about what the future will hold?
[quote=Ben Howlett in the Telegraph]"For many people, Brexit means more than Brexit. It is more than simply a case of sovereignty, or trade barriers, or settling old grudges from decades gone by. Brexit is about the roof over the heads of their family, the status of the workforce their business depends on, and the unifying link between their lives and 500 million other people." {/quote}
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/30/britain...
It illustrates why shouting 'Brexit means Brexit' or 'The plan is simply to leave' is not really an answer. In cases people's livelihoods, businesses and incomes will be dependant or certainly affected by leaving the single market, by restrictions on immigration and Brexit as a whole.
This isn't just the people that leaver's like to label as 'gravy train riders' who's income is solely dependant on the EU. It's bankers, engineers, welders, apprentices, accountants, small business owners, hauliers and a whole host of people that will be affected.
Everything looks rosy at the moment but nothing of substance has changed yet. PMI's etc for months past look rosy, but surveys looking at business sentiment looking forward paint an ominous picture for the UK.
So when people want answers to basic questions like "is the UK intending to remain in the single market?" that doesn't make them 'thick' or 'bedwetters'. There are genuine fears about what Brexit will mean, and just shouting 'Brexit means Brexit' does nothing to alleviate that. This isn't due to 'fearmongering' either. Leaving the EU and the single market in particular will be a massive political, legal and economic event that will change things forever in the space of a couple of years.
Don't you think that people have a right to worry about what the future will hold?
PurpleMoonlight said:
This form of response just shows that you are intolerant of other peoples views.
It would be naive to think that for some 'control' does not mean 'exclusion'. I would wager that all National Front members voted leave.
I'm not standing for this any more.It would be naive to think that for some 'control' does not mean 'exclusion'. I would wager that all National Front members voted leave.
Can you not see that whilst I accept you are not accusing anyone of actually being a member or supporting National Front in effect you are making a disingenuous and snide association which is simply going to upset people.
Either you can't see it, in which case you are not worthy of further interactions.
Or you can see it and deliberately choose to do it, in which case in my opinion your time on this thread and forum should come to an end.
FiF said:
I'm not standing for this any more.
Can you not see that whilst I accept you are not accusing anyone of actually being a member or supporting National Front in effect you are making a disingenuous and snide association which is simply going to upset people.
Either you can't see it, in which case you are not worthy of further interactions.
Or you can see it and deliberately choose to do it, in which case in my opinion your time on this thread and forum should come to an end.
What the fCan you not see that whilst I accept you are not accusing anyone of actually being a member or supporting National Front in effect you are making a disingenuous and snide association which is simply going to upset people.
Either you can't see it, in which case you are not worthy of further interactions.
Or you can see it and deliberately choose to do it, in which case in my opinion your time on this thread and forum should come to an end.
k!!!!!!///ajd said:
Has it occurred to you that UK punters won't want to pay 10% extra, and resent such tariffs - they won't be acceptable. Brexit tax on a BMW. Thanks.
Have you read the tariff rates under WTO rules? I don't think you have.We currently have to use the WTO rates for the EU block, once outside the EU we are then free to set our own rates within the WTO regime.
For example, on the majority of motor cars, the EU's tariff rate is 10% on WTO sourced vehicles.
Canada has a 6.1% rate on its imports of foreign sourced cars.
Japan has a 0% rate on its imports of foreign sourced cars.
USA has a 2.5% rate on its imports of foreign sourced cars.
There is nothing stopping us setting 0% tariff rates on BMW's if we end up with hard Brexit trading under WTO rules with the EU block.
When we leave the EU, the first thing we will have to do, irrespective of if we hard or soft Brexit, is to set our tariff rates for the rest of the world. It's becoming clear that the UK government wants to bring tariff barriers down, also if you look at the recent history of the WTO, there is a concerted drive towards lowering tariff rates as a matter of policy, which is going to put pressure on the EU to reduce it's tariff barriers.
One of the jobs of the UK government, should we do a hard Brexit, will be deciding what tariff rate to set on imported vehicles under WTO tariff regimes. We may decide to set a 0% rate to match Japan, or we could go for a middle ground to match the USA. Whatever we do it's highly unlikely we set a 10% rate, unless we wish to harm the German car industry as a reciprocal tactic if they refuse to negotiate in a sensible manner.
cookie118 said:
Don't you think that people have a right to worry about what the future will hold?
Spot on.Long ago - we joined a trading block who did a little fishing and farming.
And we are heading towards totalitarian EU superstate.
With an army
And unelected presidents
It scares the bejesus out of me
You make the EEC -> EU -> United States of Europe look like a nice gentle exercise in stability.
Most of us do not want to be a province in the United States of Europe.
If you do... there are 27 other countries that will accommodate you.
But I expect than number to fall in the next couple of years.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Sorry, how am I being prejudiced?
Your inability to see how your sweeping generalisations aren't bigoted is obvious. I'd imagine you regret your inaction on voting day, but there is no need to come here spouting forth. Do you accept we're leaving and there won't be a u-turn?
Troubleatmill said:
Spot on.
Long ago - we joined a trading block who did a little fishing and farming.
And we are heading towards totalitarian EU superstate.
With an army
And unelected presidents
It scares the bejesus out of me
You make the EEC -> EU -> United States of Europe look like a nice gentle exercise in stability.
Most of us do not want to be a province in the United States of Europe.
If you do... there are 27 other countries that will accommodate you.
But I expect than number to fall in the next couple of years.
When I was young boy, and being a big Star Trek fan I wondered when we would progress to a world government. I was 10 when entered the EEC and thought that was a good thing as it was progressing towards a world government.Long ago - we joined a trading block who did a little fishing and farming.
And we are heading towards totalitarian EU superstate.
With an army
And unelected presidents
It scares the bejesus out of me
You make the EEC -> EU -> United States of Europe look like a nice gentle exercise in stability.
Most of us do not want to be a province in the United States of Europe.
If you do... there are 27 other countries that will accommodate you.
But I expect than number to fall in the next couple of years.
It seems the world is now further from that than ever. I find that kind of sad.
I was thinking the other day, when listening about that space craft crashing into the comet, that we, as people on this planet, have all our priorities wrong. Why are we spending billions on researching the origin of the universe etc when there are people without clean water to drink and enough food to eat.
PurpleMoonlight said:
When I was young boy, and being a big Star Trek fan I wondered when we would progress to a world government. I was 10 when entered the EEC and thought that was a good thing as it was progressing towards a world government.
It seems the world is now further from that than ever. I find that kind of sad.
I was thinking the other day, when listening about that space craft crashing into the comet, that we, as people on this planet, have all our priorities wrong. Why are we spending billions on researching the origin of the universe etc when there are people without clean water to drink and enough food to eat.
Ah, you're a science fiction fan - makes sense. I'm guessing the author of this article is equally at home with substances:It seems the world is now further from that than ever. I find that kind of sad.
I was thinking the other day, when listening about that space craft crashing into the comet, that we, as people on this planet, have all our priorities wrong. Why are we spending billions on researching the origin of the universe etc when there are people without clean water to drink and enough food to eat.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk...
You and ajd best start stocking those larders. Why oh why didn't you vote, you could have saved us from this impending disaster
bmw535i said:
Your inability to see how your sweeping generalisations aren't bigoted is obvious. I'd imagine you regret your inaction on voting day, but there is no need to come here spouting forth.
Do you accept we're leaving and there won't be a u-turn?
You are wrong.Do you accept we're leaving and there won't be a u-turn?
I don't regret not voting and I don't care if we are in or out.
I am interested and I believe realistic about the consequences of leaving, which this is one of the two threads running on the topic.
PurpleMoonlight said:
I was thinking the other day, when listening about that space craft crashing into the comet, that we, as people on this planet, have all our priorities wrong. Why are we spending billions on researching the origin of the universe etc when there are people without clean water to drink and enough food to eat.
Or, alternately, why are we spending so little learning about the universe we live in, and so much on new and more exciting ways to kill each other? Seriously the entire space exploration budget is less that the amount spent on cosmetics in the U.S. Furthermore most of the money spent "on space" is spent on this planet keeping people in work.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff