Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result
Discussion
davepoth said:
That tariff is set (EU wide remember) so that French vineyards can operate profitably in the face of competition from South America and Australia. It's not really about money.
What will happen is that British vineyards who make sparkling white wine will be allowed to call it "English Champagne" and will make a killing on the home market as a result.
Oh undoubtedly it is. What will happen is that British vineyards who make sparkling white wine will be allowed to call it "English Champagne" and will make a killing on the home market as a result.
People can buy "English Champagne" now but still buy the French and Italian stuff.
PurpleMoonlight said:
jsf said:
Shall we look at wine? Lets.
The tariff rate under WTO rules set by the EU is 32%. If we hard Brexit then France can kiss goodbye to selling its wines in the UK at favourable rates compared to the rest of the world producers.
Have a read of this USA department of agriculture document on the wine industry relating to the UK, France is going to be very hard hit if this report is correct. http://gain.fas.usda.gov/Recent%20GAIN%20Publicati...
A particularly important extract from this document states
"The UK is a key market for the global wine trade, particularly in terms of sales value. International Wine & Spirit Research (IWSR) predicts that by 2018, the top still wine markets by value will be the U.S. and UK, worth USD 33 billion and USD 26 billion respectively."
"The UK wine market is fiercely competitive and mostly price-focused. Most opportunities for U.S. wine are to be found with importers who service the high-end independent stores and the less price-conscious foodservice sector."
If the UK chose to set its WTO rate for wine at 0%, the USA sourced wine just got 32% cheaper, no longer will USA wine (or New Zealand wine which is amazing) be the reserve of the high-end independent store. You think the USA producers are going to let this opportunity go lightly? $26 Billion is a lot of money to chase for just the one industry.
Now imagine the other industries that sell to the UK we could get better deals from.
Once the remainers open their eyes to the possibilities being out of the EU offers, maybe they will start to feel a bit better about the future? Or is that too much to ask?
This is the trouble with brexit, people need to think of the consequences of the action and not just the headline benefit.The tariff rate under WTO rules set by the EU is 32%. If we hard Brexit then France can kiss goodbye to selling its wines in the UK at favourable rates compared to the rest of the world producers.
Have a read of this USA department of agriculture document on the wine industry relating to the UK, France is going to be very hard hit if this report is correct. http://gain.fas.usda.gov/Recent%20GAIN%20Publicati...
A particularly important extract from this document states
"The UK is a key market for the global wine trade, particularly in terms of sales value. International Wine & Spirit Research (IWSR) predicts that by 2018, the top still wine markets by value will be the U.S. and UK, worth USD 33 billion and USD 26 billion respectively."
"The UK wine market is fiercely competitive and mostly price-focused. Most opportunities for U.S. wine are to be found with importers who service the high-end independent stores and the less price-conscious foodservice sector."
If the UK chose to set its WTO rate for wine at 0%, the USA sourced wine just got 32% cheaper, no longer will USA wine (or New Zealand wine which is amazing) be the reserve of the high-end independent store. You think the USA producers are going to let this opportunity go lightly? $26 Billion is a lot of money to chase for just the one industry.
Now imagine the other industries that sell to the UK we could get better deals from.
Once the remainers open their eyes to the possibilities being out of the EU offers, maybe they will start to feel a bit better about the future? Or is that too much to ask?
To get lectured by someone who DIDN'T vote, wasn't prepared to stand up for what is clear from their posts, a vote to remain, sticks in the craw for most, especially leave voters.
How about looking at what a poster has written, understand the message and open your eyes a little, for someone who DIDN'T vote, don't apparently care either way, you're very negative about every very good point/s made in the UK's favour.
jsf has made a very good post and the points were crystal clear, they also echoe the points many leavers are making, it certainly resonates with me, as I made similar comparisons earlier, not surprisingly, they were also dismissed by you.
If you don't care either way can we at least have some positive bias, is that too much to ask?
PurpleMoonlight said:
But hang on a minute.
The government currently gets that 32% tariff paid for by the consumer. While many wine drinkers will no doubt be overjoyed at the prospect of cheaper plonk, what about the exchequer? How much are they going to loose?
And lets not forget that our wine exports to the EU will become 32% dearer. Will any vineyards go bust as a result?
This is the trouble with brexit, people need to think of the consequences of the action and not just the headline benefit.
They wouldn't lose anything tax wise from French wine if 0% tariff is set, the tax take may go up on USA wine as more people consume that paying VAT and alchohol taxes on the sale, which would balance out the loss in tariff income. You may also find the economy as a whole improves as the population find they have more money to spend as prices fall as a result of working within a lower tariff economy.The government currently gets that 32% tariff paid for by the consumer. While many wine drinkers will no doubt be overjoyed at the prospect of cheaper plonk, what about the exchequer? How much are they going to loose?
And lets not forget that our wine exports to the EU will become 32% dearer. Will any vineyards go bust as a result?
This is the trouble with brexit, people need to think of the consequences of the action and not just the headline benefit.
Edited by PurpleMoonlight on Saturday 1st October 18:42
You'd probably find total volume would increase also as all the remainers drown their sorrows for the next 40 years.
English wine accounts for less than 1% of the UK market, so is going to be a very small % of the EU market. English wine is very much a specialist product which can stand higher pricing compared to your average French plonk. That puts the emphasis on the EU (French) to want to retain good terms on access.
The USA appears to be a market the UK producers are targeting for sales, being able to deal with the USA on more favourable terms can only help.
From the English wine producers website
"Recently appointed Secretary of State for Environment Food and Rural Affairs, Andrea Leadsom, comments: “There is no doubt there is a global thirst for our wine and this latest milestone from Chapel Down is further proof of the opportunities in the US for our top class producers. Thanks to the innovation and hard work of our wine growers, the English wine industry is going from strength to strength with production more than doubling in the last five years. It’s fantastic to see our vintners flying the flag for British produce overseas - showing our wine trade is very much open for business.”"
PurpleMoonlight said:
When I was young boy, and being a big Star Trek fan I wondered when we would progress to a world government. I was 10 when entered the EEC and thought that was a good thing as it was progressing towards a world government.
It seems the world is now further from that than ever. I find that kind of sad.
I was thinking the other day, when listening about that space craft crashing into the comet, that we, as people on this planet, have all our priorities wrong. Why are we spending billions on researching the origin of the universe etc when there are people without clean water to drink and enough food to eat.
World government. Wow,that sounds OK to you?It seems the world is now further from that than ever. I find that kind of sad.
I was thinking the other day, when listening about that space craft crashing into the comet, that we, as people on this planet, have all our priorities wrong. Why are we spending billions on researching the origin of the universe etc when there are people without clean water to drink and enough food to eat.
Maybe at 10,but now? Sounds like something Juncker would come out with, or has he already?
PurpleMoonlight said:
s2art said:
Not much as the bulk of the wine sold in the UK comes from the EU tariff free. We could set our tariff at say 10% and rake in more for the exchequer than we do now.
Then all French, Italian etc wine becomes 10% dearer and a lot of people will be unhappy.Mrr T said:
don4l said:
MIFID 2.
Stop talking about passporting. You know that it won't apply in 2 years time.
Don4l do those health issues you posted about yesterday include sight problems because you seem incapable of reading my posts on this.Stop talking about passporting. You know that it won't apply in 2 years time.
MiFID 2 which allows countries with equivalence to apply for passporting will be fully implemented in 2018. However, there is no indication how the process will work. AIFMD allowed some limited passporting and was implemented in 2015. A year later and we are starting to see some guidelines from ESMA how the process will work.
So with luck we might get passporting via MIFID 2 in 2019/2020. If your happy to wait that long to start the art 50 process so am I.
In case you haven't notice Project Fear is dead. It has failed.
jsf said:
They wouldn't lose anything tax wise from French wine if 0% tariff is set, the tax take may go up on USA wine as more people consume that paying VAT and alchohol taxes on the sale, which would balance out the loss in tariff income. You may also find the economy as a whole improves as the population find they have more money to spend as prices fall as a result of working within a lower tariff economy.
I agree, if you set the tariff at 0% an increase in sales could compensate for the loss in revenue via additional VAT etc. Is there the potential scope for that?
Or would people be more likely to swap from EU to US/AUS/NZ wines so no material difference in sales?
Funkycoldribena said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
When I was young boy, and being a big Star Trek fan I wondered when we would progress to a world government. I was 10 when entered the EEC and thought that was a good thing as it was progressing towards a world government.
It seems the world is now further from that than ever. I find that kind of sad.
I was thinking the other day, when listening about that space craft crashing into the comet, that we, as people on this planet, have all our priorities wrong. Why are we spending billions on researching the origin of the universe etc when there are people without clean water to drink and enough food to eat.
World government. Wow,that sounds OK to you?It seems the world is now further from that than ever. I find that kind of sad.
I was thinking the other day, when listening about that space craft crashing into the comet, that we, as people on this planet, have all our priorities wrong. Why are we spending billions on researching the origin of the universe etc when there are people without clean water to drink and enough food to eat.
Maybe at 10,but now? Sounds like something Juncker would come out with, or has he already?
PurpleMoonlight said:
jsf said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
But hang on a minute.
The government currently gets that 32% tariff paid for by the consumer. While many wine drinkers will no doubt be overjoyed at the prospect of cheaper plonk, what about the exchequer? How much are they going to loose?
And lets not forget that our wine exports to the EU will become 32% dearer. Will any vineyards go bust as a result?
This is the trouble with brexit, people need to think of the consequences of the action and not just the headline benefit.
They wouldn't lose anything tax wise from French wine if 0% tariff is set, the tax take may go up on USA wine as more people consume that paying VAT and alchohol taxes on the sale, which would balance out the loss in tariff income. You may also find the economy as a whole improves as the population find they have more money to spend as prices fall as a result of working within a lower tariff economy.The government currently gets that 32% tariff paid for by the consumer. While many wine drinkers will no doubt be overjoyed at the prospect of cheaper plonk, what about the exchequer? How much are they going to loose?
And lets not forget that our wine exports to the EU will become 32% dearer. Will any vineyards go bust as a result?
This is the trouble with brexit, people need to think of the consequences of the action and not just the headline benefit.
Edited by PurpleMoonlight on Saturday 1st October 18:42
You'd probably find total volume would increase also as all the remainers drown their sorrows for the next 40 years.
English wine accounts for less than 1% of the UK market, so is going to be a very small % of the EU market. English wine is very much a specialist product which can stand higher pricing compared to your average French plonk. That puts the emphasis on the EU (French) to want to retain good terms on access.
The USA appears to be a market the UK producers are targeting for sales, being able to deal with the USA on more favourable terms can only help.
From the English wine producers website
"Recently appointed Secretary of State for Environment Food and Rural Affairs, Andrea Leadsom, comments: “There is no doubt there is a global thirst for our wine and this latest milestone from Chapel Down is further proof of the opportunities in the US for our top class producers. Thanks to the innovation and hard work of our wine growers, the English wine industry is going from strength to strength with production more than doubling in the last five years. It’s fantastic to see our vintners flying the flag for British produce overseas - showing our wine trade is very much open for business.”"
Einion Yrth said:
Not that long ago petrol was just under a quid a litre, it's now back at 1.12 or so (doubtless location counts). 10% on a bottle of wine? Few would notice and after a couple of months no-one would care.
Possibly.People did drive less though when it was £1.50 odd per litre.
PurpleMoonlight said:
s2art said:
Not much as the bulk of the wine sold in the UK comes from the EU tariff free. We could set our tariff at say 10% and rake in more for the exchequer than we do now.
Then all French, Italian etc wine becomes 10% dearer and a lot of people will be unhappy.PurpleMoonlight said:
Indeed.
I hope the Government will publish their anticipated impact summaries of all these decisions they way they to with the Budget each year.
I'm going to assume that you've been bI hope the Government will publish their anticipated impact summaries of all these decisions they way they to with the Budget each year.
ksed up by a phone, could you repeat it in English so that I know what I'm disagreeing with? Ta.
s2art said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
s2art said:
Not much as the bulk of the wine sold in the UK comes from the EU tariff free. We could set our tariff at say 10% and rake in more for the exchequer than we do now.
Then all French, Italian etc wine becomes 10% dearer and a lot of people will be unhappy.I'm sure the business owners, when such losses start to hurt, will sit back, as opposed to lobbying their respective Governments to protect their industries.
Rocket science it isn't.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Oh undoubtedly it is.
People can buy "English Champagne" now but still buy the French and Italian stuff.
No they can't. They can buy "English Sparkling white wine made to the method used in the Champagne region of France", but because "Champagne" is an Appelation d'Origine Controllee and under EU law we aren't allowed to call sparkling wine from any other place "Champagne".People can buy "English Champagne" now but still buy the French and Italian stuff.
If you can write the word on a bottle, people will buy it.
FiF said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
This form of response just shows that you are intolerant of other peoples views.
It would be naive to think that for some 'control' does not mean 'exclusion'. I would wager that all National Front members voted leave.
I'm not standing for this any more.It would be naive to think that for some 'control' does not mean 'exclusion'. I would wager that all National Front members voted leave.
Can you not see that whilst I accept you are not accusing anyone of actually being a member or supporting National Front in effect you are making a disingenuous and snide association which is simply going to upset people.
Either you can't see it, in which case you are not worthy of further interactions.
Or you can see it and deliberately choose to do it, in which case in my opinion your time on this thread and forum should come to an end.
Trying to associate Leave Voters is a really low thing to do.
I'm sure that there are some mods on this thread. Perhaps one of you would expain to PM that suggesting that 17M people have something in common with the NF is unacceptable.
Edited by don4l on Saturday 1st October 19:56
davepoth said:
No they can't. They can buy "English Sparkling white wine made to the method used in the Champagne region of France", but because "Champagne" is an Appelation d'Origine Controllee and under EU law we aren't allowed to call sparkling wine from any other place "Champagne".
If you can write the word on a bottle, people will buy it.
Yes I appreciate that, I assumed your " " had a purpose.If you can write the word on a bottle, people will buy it.
I guess some will.
Hope we don't export much Cornish pasties and Melton Mowbray pork pies ...
don4l said:
You are absolutely correct to call him out.
Trying to associate Leave Voters is a really low thing to do.
I'm sure that there are some mods on this thread. Perhaps one of you would expain to PP that suggesting that 17M people have something in common with the NF is unacceptable.
I voted leave. I have something in common with members of the NF. We're all genetically human ( I think ). I don't care for their ideology, but there are reasons for them having it. Those reasons need addressing, just dismissing them as in some way unacceptable is not going to help.Trying to associate Leave Voters is a really low thing to do.
I'm sure that there are some mods on this thread. Perhaps one of you would expain to PP that suggesting that 17M people have something in common with the NF is unacceptable.
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