Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result
Discussion
davepoth said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Oh undoubtedly it is.
People can buy "English Champagne" now but still buy the French and Italian stuff.
No they can't. They can buy "English Sparkling white wine made to the method used in the Champagne region of France", but because "Champagne" is an Appelation d'Origine Controllee and under EU law we aren't allowed to call sparkling wine from any other place "Champagne".People can buy "English Champagne" now but still buy the French and Italian stuff.
If you can write the word on a bottle, people will buy it.
So we can and will have English Champagne and English Prosecco.
The French and Italians will be jumping up and down in their presses in tears.......... sour grapes
Edited by don'tbesilly on Saturday 1st October 20:18
Troubleatmill said:
cookie118 said:
Don't you think that people have a right to worry about what the future will hold?
Spot on.Long ago - we joined a trading block who did a little fishing and farming.
And we are heading towards totalitarian EU superstate.
With an army
And unelected presidents
It scares the bejesus out of me
You make the EEC -> EU -> United States of Europe look like a nice gentle exercise in stability.
Most of us do not want to be a province in the United States of Europe.
If you do... there are 27 other countries that will accommodate you.
But I expect than number to fall in the next couple of years.
And in relation to my original post-if we'd voted to remain-would 'remain means remain' or 'this is what we've voted for' make those fears go away?
jsf said:
Shall we look at wine? Lets.
The tariff rate under WTO rules set by the EU is 32%. If we hard Brexit then France can kiss goodbye to selling its wines in the UK at favourable rates compared to the rest of the world producers.
Have a read of this USA department of agriculture document on the wine industry relating to the UK, France is going to be very hard hit if this report is correct. http://gain.fas.usda.gov/Recent%20GAIN%20Publicati...
A particularly important extract from this document states
"The UK is a key market for the global wine trade, particularly in terms of sales value. International Wine & Spirit Research (IWSR) predicts that by 2018, the top still wine markets by value will be the U.S. and UK, worth USD 33 billion and USD 26 billion respectively."
"The UK wine market is fiercely competitive and mostly price-focused. Most opportunities for U.S. wine are to be found with importers who service the high-end independent stores and the less price-conscious foodservice sector."
If the UK chose to set its WTO rate for wine at 0%, the USA sourced wine just got 32% cheaper, no longer will USA wine (or New Zealand wine which is amazing) be the reserve of the high-end independent store. You think the USA producers are going to let this opportunity go lightly? $26 Billion is a lot of money to chase for just the one industry.
Now imagine the other industries that sell to the UK we could get better deals from.
Once the remainers open their eyes to the possibilities being out of the EU offers, maybe they will start to feel a bit better about the future? Or is that too much to ask?
The Remainers will not understand a single word that you wrote.The tariff rate under WTO rules set by the EU is 32%. If we hard Brexit then France can kiss goodbye to selling its wines in the UK at favourable rates compared to the rest of the world producers.
Have a read of this USA department of agriculture document on the wine industry relating to the UK, France is going to be very hard hit if this report is correct. http://gain.fas.usda.gov/Recent%20GAIN%20Publicati...
A particularly important extract from this document states
"The UK is a key market for the global wine trade, particularly in terms of sales value. International Wine & Spirit Research (IWSR) predicts that by 2018, the top still wine markets by value will be the U.S. and UK, worth USD 33 billion and USD 26 billion respectively."
"The UK wine market is fiercely competitive and mostly price-focused. Most opportunities for U.S. wine are to be found with importers who service the high-end independent stores and the less price-conscious foodservice sector."
If the UK chose to set its WTO rate for wine at 0%, the USA sourced wine just got 32% cheaper, no longer will USA wine (or New Zealand wine which is amazing) be the reserve of the high-end independent store. You think the USA producers are going to let this opportunity go lightly? $26 Billion is a lot of money to chase for just the one industry.
Now imagine the other industries that sell to the UK we could get better deals from.
Once the remainers open their eyes to the possibilities being out of the EU offers, maybe they will start to feel a bit better about the future? Or is that too much to ask?
I suspect that they will not even read past the first paragraph.
PurpleMoonlight said:
jsf said:
Shall we look at wine? Lets.
The tariff rate under WTO rules set by the EU is 32%. If we hard Brexit then France can kiss goodbye to selling its wines in the UK at favourable rates compared to the rest of the world producers.
Have a read of this USA department of agriculture document on the wine industry relating to the UK, France is going to be very hard hit if this report is correct. http://gain.fas.usda.gov/Recent%20GAIN%20Publicati...
A particularly important extract from this document states
"The UK is a key market for the global wine trade, particularly in terms of sales value. International Wine & Spirit Research (IWSR) predicts that by 2018, the top still wine markets by value will be the U.S. and UK, worth USD 33 billion and USD 26 billion respectively."
"The UK wine market is fiercely competitive and mostly price-focused. Most opportunities for U.S. wine are to be found with importers who service the high-end independent stores and the less price-conscious foodservice sector."
If the UK chose to set its WTO rate for wine at 0%, the USA sourced wine just got 32% cheaper, no longer will USA wine (or New Zealand wine which is amazing) be the reserve of the high-end independent store. You think the USA producers are going to let this opportunity go lightly? $26 Billion is a lot of money to chase for just the one industry.
Now imagine the other industries that sell to the UK we could get better deals from.
Once the remainers open their eyes to the possibilities being out of the EU offers, maybe they will start to feel a bit better about the future? Or is that too much to ask?
But hang on a minute.The tariff rate under WTO rules set by the EU is 32%. If we hard Brexit then France can kiss goodbye to selling its wines in the UK at favourable rates compared to the rest of the world producers.
Have a read of this USA department of agriculture document on the wine industry relating to the UK, France is going to be very hard hit if this report is correct. http://gain.fas.usda.gov/Recent%20GAIN%20Publicati...
A particularly important extract from this document states
"The UK is a key market for the global wine trade, particularly in terms of sales value. International Wine & Spirit Research (IWSR) predicts that by 2018, the top still wine markets by value will be the U.S. and UK, worth USD 33 billion and USD 26 billion respectively."
"The UK wine market is fiercely competitive and mostly price-focused. Most opportunities for U.S. wine are to be found with importers who service the high-end independent stores and the less price-conscious foodservice sector."
If the UK chose to set its WTO rate for wine at 0%, the USA sourced wine just got 32% cheaper, no longer will USA wine (or New Zealand wine which is amazing) be the reserve of the high-end independent store. You think the USA producers are going to let this opportunity go lightly? $26 Billion is a lot of money to chase for just the one industry.
Now imagine the other industries that sell to the UK we could get better deals from.
Once the remainers open their eyes to the possibilities being out of the EU offers, maybe they will start to feel a bit better about the future? Or is that too much to ask?
The government currently gets that 32% tariff paid for by the consumer. While many wine drinkers will no doubt be overjoyed at the prospect of cheaper plonk, what about the exchequer? How much are they going to loose?
And lets not forget that our wine exports to the EU will become 32% dearer. Will any vineyards go bust as a result?
This is the trouble with brexit, people need to think of the consequences of the action and not just the headline benefit.
Edited by PurpleMoonlight on Saturday 1st October 18:42
I said that they wouldn't understand a single word.
FiF said:
Doesn’t that current 32% tariff income on eg USA wine actually end up being sent to the EU? So from UK perspective is there any loss of tariff Income? If I have misunderstood how EU imposed tariffs work in practice then apologies.
I think the way it works is that the tariff is paid at the point of entry to the EU to the local government exchequer, then the VAT element is effectively paid to the exchequer of the country the goods are sold at their final destination (via internal mechanisms for deferring VAT).If that were the case then the large continental ports could take a kicking if the UK ports take direct imports as a consequence of Brixit, but unfortunately I cant find anything that confirms this is the mechanism.
Einion Yrth said:
jsf said:
With regards to scientific research and the space program, one of the reasons we spend so much in this field is for the technology that comes as a result of this endeavour. For example the transistor, which lead to the modern silicone chip and the computer age came from the space program,
Shockley's invention of the transistor predates the space race by the best part of a decade, at a time when scientific and engineering research was moving at some pace. Silicon (silicone is used to build fake tits) integrated circuits are a development of the semiconductor revolution arguably started by Shockley et al, that have really only reached their current state after the space race.jsf said:
as did Teflon. Solar panel technology has also been developed via the space program..
PTFE (Teflon) was discovered in 1938.I'm a supporter of space research, but these canards do not aid us.
Einion Yrth said:
I voted leave. I have something in common with members of the NF. We're all genetically human ( I think ). I don't care for their ideology, but there are reasons for them having it. Those reasons need addressing, just dismissing them as in some way unacceptable is not going to help.
I completely agree. In fact I have mentioned it a few times.The more you try to shut down the discussion, the bigger the pressure builds.
The idea that Marine La Pen could be the next French president would have been ludicrous just a couple of years ago. It looks like the next president of Austria will be Nigel Farage's equivalent.
The absolutely amazing thing is that far right parties are emerging in Germany.
The politicians that we have had in Europe recently have been a total disgrace.
jsf said:
FiF said:
Doesn’t that current 32% tariff income on eg USA wine actually end up being sent to the EU? So from UK perspective is there any loss of tariff Income? If I have misunderstood how EU imposed tariffs work in practice then apologies.
I think the way it works is that the tariff is paid at the point of entry to the EU to the local government exchequer, then the VAT element is effectively paid to the exchequer of the country the goods are sold at their final destination (via internal mechanisms for deferring VAT).If that were the case then the large continental ports could take a kicking if the UK ports take direct imports as a consequence of Brixit, but unfortunately I cant find anything that confirms this is the mechanism.
alfie2244 said:
We could also bring back duty free, non landing booze cruises which I thoroughly enjoyed in the 80's - £1 fare with a Sun token IIRC 
My wife bought a £1 ticket at the time. I remember telling her not to bother, but as usual, I was wrong.We got a ticket for a 6am sailing and we lived two hours from Dover. Needless to say, the ticket went in the bin.
FiF said:
jsf said:
FiF said:
Doesn’t that current 32% tariff income on eg USA wine actually end up being sent to the EU? So from UK perspective is there any loss of tariff Income? If I have misunderstood how EU imposed tariffs work in practice then apologies.
I think the way it works is that the tariff is paid at the point of entry to the EU to the local government exchequer, then the VAT element is effectively paid to the exchequer of the country the goods are sold at their final destination (via internal mechanisms for deferring VAT).If that were the case then the large continental ports could take a kicking if the UK ports take direct imports as a consequence of Brixit, but unfortunately I cant find anything that confirms this is the mechanism.
don4l said:
Einion Yrth said:
I voted leave. I have something in common with members of the NF. We're all genetically human ( I think ). I don't care for their ideology, but there are reasons for them having it. Those reasons need addressing, just dismissing them as in some way unacceptable is not going to help.
I completely agree. In fact I have mentioned it a few times.The more you try to shut down the discussion, the bigger the pressure builds.
The idea that Marine La Pen could be the next French president would have been ludicrous just a couple of years ago. It looks like the next president of Austria will be Nigel Farage's equivalent.
The absolutely amazing thing is that far right parties are emerging in Germany.
The politicians that we have had in Europe recently have been a total disgrace.
The indications are Norbert Hofer (no fan of the EU!) will win it, and the Hungarians will vote against the quotas, so if both happen, very damaging for the EU.
With the Deutsche Bank situation ongoing, and any bail out by the Germans being ruled out by the EU, it's far from rosy in the EU's back garden.
Monday will be interesting!
alfie2244 said:
We could also bring back duty free, non landing booze cruises which I thoroughly enjoyed in the 80's - £1 fare with a Sun token IIRC
"Duty Free" was the biggest con ever inflicted on the British public. What was being sold as "duty free" on cross channel ships and hovercraft was going for a little less than UK residents had to pay for it at home, so they lapped it up.I was one of 'em doing the lapping until, on the last day of a holiday in the South of France in 1989, I ran out of tobacco.
I went into a local tobacconist to grudgingly buy a packet with French tax rates on it to get me back to the boat. It was then I found out that tobacco was actually a couple of quid cheaper than P&O (or whoever it was) wanted for it in their "duty free" shop. It wasn't a one-off in a "discount store" either because prices for tobacco products are set by the government in France (as they are in Belgium and Spain - don't know about anywhere else)
I then looked in a French hypermarket to find that wine and beer was cheaper there than "duty free" on the boat. Realising that I had been a mug for the previous 20 years or so I started buying the stuff where it was actually cheaper, and not where companies only knocked a quid or two off the UK retail price because they were relying on the gullible not to check out the facts.
And you want all of this back? I hope it wasn't one of the reasons you voted to leave the EU...
cookie118 said:
Troubleatmill said:
cookie118 said:
Don't you think that people have a right to worry about what the future will hold?
Spot on.Long ago - we joined a trading block who did a little fishing and farming.
And we are heading towards totalitarian EU superstate.
With an army
And unelected presidents
It scares the bejesus out of me
You make the EEC -> EU -> United States of Europe look like a nice gentle exercise in stability.
Most of us do not want to be a province in the United States of Europe.
If you do... there are 27 other countries that will accommodate you.
But I expect than number to fall in the next couple of years.
And in relation to my original post-if we'd voted to remain-would 'remain means remain' or 'this is what we've voted for' make those fears go away?
We were asked to join a small trading block
The EU as it is now - and where it is heading was never on the agenda.
Now we have been asked. And we have answered. The majority said we do not want it.
End of story
If it went the other way - End of story.
Unfortunately we have a never ending procession of idiots who are saying "double or quits" or "It's going to cost you"
ATEOTD. It is done... let's make it work to our advantage
Or try to stick the knife in.
rs1952 said:
alfie2244 said:
We could also bring back duty free, non landing booze cruises which I thoroughly enjoyed in the 80's - £1 fare with a Sun token IIRC
"Duty Free" was the biggest con ever inflicted on the British public. What was being sold as "duty free" on cross channel ships and hovercraft was going for a little less than UK residents had to pay for it at home, so they lapped it up.I was one of 'em doing the lapping until, on the last day of a holiday in the South of France in 1989, I ran out of tobacco.
I went into a local tobacconist to grudgingly buy a packet with French tax rates on it to get me back to the boat. It was then I found out that tobacco was actually a couple of quid cheaper than P&O (or whoever it was) wanted for it in their "duty free" shop. It wasn't a one-off in a "discount store" either because prices for tobacco products are set by the government in France (as they are in Belgium and Spain - don't know about anywhere else)
I then looked in a French hypermarket to find that wine and beer was cheaper there than "duty free" on the boat. Realising that I had been a mug for the previous 20 years or so I started buying the stuff where it was actually cheaper, and not where companies only knocked a quid or two off the UK retail price because they were relying on the gullible not to check out the facts.
And you want all of this back? I hope it wasn't one of the reasons you voted to leave the EU...
Perhaps this is a bit more in your specialist field:
Will the £8 (8pm - 8am) Eurotunnel tickets will come back (car + 4 people)?....I lived 20 mins from the tunnel, cheap shopping (booze & fags), seafood meal in Calais, few drinks and home in bed by 12pm - cheap night out
ps the minimal Duty Free allowances never were the reason why so many crossed.
Edited by alfie2244 on Saturday 1st October 21:10
jsf said:
FiF said:
jsf said:
FiF said:
Doesn’t that current 32% tariff income on eg USA wine actually end up being sent to the EU? So from UK perspective is there any loss of tariff Income? If I have misunderstood how EU imposed tariffs work in practice then apologies.
I think the way it works is that the tariff is paid at the point of entry to the EU to the local government exchequer, then the VAT element is effectively paid to the exchequer of the country the goods are sold at their final destination (via internal mechanisms for deferring VAT).If that were the case then the large continental ports could take a kicking if the UK ports take direct imports as a consequence of Brixit, but unfortunately I cant find anything that confirms this is the mechanism.
This is one
Another all very basic
From that last one it suggests that collection costs are about 20%, which seems a lot.
alfie2244 said:
Will the £8 (8pm - 8am) Eurotunnel tickets will come back (car + 4 people)?....I lived 20 mins from the tunnel, cheap shopping (booze & fags), seafood meal in Calais, few drinks and home in bed by 12pm - cheap night out
Nostalgia huh!I'm guessing a cheap night out in Calais right now doesn't quite have the same appeal, despite the massive party the French Gendarmerie attended, quite a riot apparently.
There were lots of bottles involved according to some, most were empty and flying through the air though!
alfie2244 said:
I will respond - having been, in part, responsible for the abolition of duty free I would hazard a guess that I know far more about the subject than I let on.....heck Brussels even paid me for my opinion on the matter.don't suppose you believe me for a minute but hey ho do I care
Perhaps this is a bit more in your specialist field:
Will the £8 (8pm - 8am) Eurotunnel tickets will come back (car + 4 people)?....I lived 20 mins from the tunnel, cheap shopping (booze & fags), seafood meal in Calais, few drinks and home in bed by 12pm - cheap night out
ps the minimal Duty Free allowances never were the reason why so many crossed.
I don't really care how much you know or don't know, or what you did or didn't do, as regards duty free. I was simply relating the fact (not an opinion) that you could buy much of the stuff, that was conning the British Public in on board "duty free" shops, at a cheaper price on dry land t'other side the channel.Perhaps this is a bit more in your specialist field:
Will the £8 (8pm - 8am) Eurotunnel tickets will come back (car + 4 people)?....I lived 20 mins from the tunnel, cheap shopping (booze & fags), seafood meal in Calais, few drinks and home in bed by 12pm - cheap night out
ps the minimal Duty Free allowances never were the reason why so many crossed.
I also don't know or care whether Eurotunnel do a cut price "daft-o-clock-at night" price for a crossing, because I wouldn't use it if they did. I believe in travelling when I want to travel and, if when I want to travel is a bit more expensive than in the off peak, then so be it. I have used Eurotunnel on a number of occasions, but on my last 3 or 4 trips the ferries were offering the better deal, so they got my business.
Mind you, if you know as much as you say you do I'm surprised you suggested we could reintroduce this con on the public. Perhaps you have shares in Eurotunnel, P&O or DFDS? That would at least be a reasonably good reason for raising the matter.
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