Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result
Discussion
I enjoyed today but I feel it will amount to nothing more than a howl at the moon.
The coming days will see the full mobilisation of the political machinery of the EU - I cannot envisage any scenario that involves us actually leaving. They will make us feel some pain and then we will be subjected to a charm offensive. I think the average voter will be putty in their hands in the next couple of years.
The coming days will see the full mobilisation of the political machinery of the EU - I cannot envisage any scenario that involves us actually leaving. They will make us feel some pain and then we will be subjected to a charm offensive. I think the average voter will be putty in their hands in the next couple of years.
The EUs problem is that they thought they would win, and thus did not negotiate. As a result CMD can back with nothing, was savaged by the Brexit campaign and lost. Now the EU is in real trouble - they've got France and Italy champing at the bit for a referendum, which they will probably also win. At that point, the whole thing comes apart - indeed it may already be coming apart as investors realise that Southern European debt will never be repaid and there won't even be an institution left to sue.
If CMD had come back with:
- Permanent "no benefits for migrants". If no one is coming over to claim benefits, then it won't hurt anyone...
- More border controls (indeed exactly what Sarkozy is suggesting now)
- some token efficiency improvements resulting in smaller bills
- agreement to lock down the EU budget increases
- a rebalance of power between the European Parliament and the commission
- hard opt outs
....then remain would have won with 75% and we wouldn't be having this discussion. They could easily have given him that, and I think they are going to end up doing it anyway. With a gun to their heads, they will agree this quickly and then we will have a second referendum. They're not going to let Juncker's pride destroy the whole thing.
If CMD had come back with:
- Permanent "no benefits for migrants". If no one is coming over to claim benefits, then it won't hurt anyone...
- More border controls (indeed exactly what Sarkozy is suggesting now)
- some token efficiency improvements resulting in smaller bills
- agreement to lock down the EU budget increases
- a rebalance of power between the European Parliament and the commission
- hard opt outs
....then remain would have won with 75% and we wouldn't be having this discussion. They could easily have given him that, and I think they are going to end up doing it anyway. With a gun to their heads, they will agree this quickly and then we will have a second referendum. They're not going to let Juncker's pride destroy the whole thing.
Even now the arrogant EU elite have not even asked WHY over half the voters in a country of 65.5 million people preferred to vote leave, and face the unknown, than stay with the corrupt failing EU.
Perhaps if they had looked at what is wrong and is going wrong with themselves first and had done something about it, a Brexit referendum would not have been needed or happened at all. the EU only has itself to blame for what has happened. Of course they wont see that and try to pin blame on everything and anything, but themselves.
Perhaps if they had looked at what is wrong and is going wrong with themselves first and had done something about it, a Brexit referendum would not have been needed or happened at all. the EU only has itself to blame for what has happened. Of course they wont see that and try to pin blame on everything and anything, but themselves.
DMN said:
Seems some brexiters are having second thoughts now the damage has been done (video near the top):
https://twitter.com/SimonNRicketts
Incredible.https://twitter.com/SimonNRicketts
Lets not forget that the next multi billion Euro Greek bailout is coming up soon, not to mention the new basket case economies the EU has taken in, who will all be looking for handouts from the EU`s coffers.
Since Germany is likely to be the only country left in the EU which puts cash INTO EU coffers, they probably wont be keen on paying bail outs for too long, if at all.
Interesting times lay ahead.
Since Germany is likely to be the only country left in the EU which puts cash INTO EU coffers, they probably wont be keen on paying bail outs for too long, if at all.
Interesting times lay ahead.
good thread.
I voted out, reasons being the gravy train bureaucracy, inefficiency, power balance of the French and Germans, the fact that plenty of other nations have worldwide trade treaties and are doing fine, immigration although not a biggie for me, is i feel at tipping point. Yes there's loads but we need it for industry, but we have enough and need no more. Lastly the way the southern economies were treated too, lets just loan them more money instead of giving them some concessions to help them grow their economies, they were just remortgaged. Cant end well.
So back to the thread, I honestly don't want to leave. I voted leave because I think and hope Europe wont want to risk loosing us and will change, they surely have to so as to stop the domino effect. Problem is they might not let us back in to stop the domino effect, so it could well be we took a bullet for our European neighbours.
Either way I think this had to be done and stand by my vote.
I voted out, reasons being the gravy train bureaucracy, inefficiency, power balance of the French and Germans, the fact that plenty of other nations have worldwide trade treaties and are doing fine, immigration although not a biggie for me, is i feel at tipping point. Yes there's loads but we need it for industry, but we have enough and need no more. Lastly the way the southern economies were treated too, lets just loan them more money instead of giving them some concessions to help them grow their economies, they were just remortgaged. Cant end well.
So back to the thread, I honestly don't want to leave. I voted leave because I think and hope Europe wont want to risk loosing us and will change, they surely have to so as to stop the domino effect. Problem is they might not let us back in to stop the domino effect, so it could well be we took a bullet for our European neighbours.
Either way I think this had to be done and stand by my vote.
///ajd said:
DMN said:
Seems some brexiters are having second thoughts now the damage has been done (video near the top):
https://twitter.com/SimonNRicketts
Incredible.https://twitter.com/SimonNRicketts
king idiots. Unbelievable.Popped out to stock up on tin foil earlier today.
Cameron and Juncker reached a private agreement, whereby Cameron would announce that he wouldn't press the Article 50 button for three months. Just for effect, Juncker agreed to say that it all had to happen quickly. Juncker also promised Corbyn a "Kinnock" (shorthand for sinecure/EU gravy train). In return, Corbyn and Cameron agreed to engineer a vote of no confidence in the HoC, thus triggering a GE - to be held before Art50 is invoked. They also agreed to make sure that both parties' manifestos made clear commitments to stay in the EU. So whoever wins the GE can claim that their manifesto trumps the referendum, we stay in the EU and everyone important is happy again. Only slight problem is they haven't worked out how to keep Nige out of the way. Any ideas ?
Cameron and Juncker reached a private agreement, whereby Cameron would announce that he wouldn't press the Article 50 button for three months. Just for effect, Juncker agreed to say that it all had to happen quickly. Juncker also promised Corbyn a "Kinnock" (shorthand for sinecure/EU gravy train). In return, Corbyn and Cameron agreed to engineer a vote of no confidence in the HoC, thus triggering a GE - to be held before Art50 is invoked. They also agreed to make sure that both parties' manifestos made clear commitments to stay in the EU. So whoever wins the GE can claim that their manifesto trumps the referendum, we stay in the EU and everyone important is happy again. Only slight problem is they haven't worked out how to keep Nige out of the way. Any ideas ?
Pan Pan Pan said:
Even now the arrogant EU elite have not even asked WHY over half the voters in a country of 65.5 million people preferred to vote leave, and face the unknown, than stay with the corrupt failing EU.
Perhaps if they had looked at what is wrong and is going wrong with themselves first and had done something about it, a Brexit referendum would not have been needed or happened at all. the EU only has itself to blame for what has happened. Of course they wont see that and try to pin blame on everything and anything, but themselves.
17.4 million out of 65.5 million is considerably less than half.Perhaps if they had looked at what is wrong and is going wrong with themselves first and had done something about it, a Brexit referendum would not have been needed or happened at all. the EU only has itself to blame for what has happened. Of course they wont see that and try to pin blame on everything and anything, but themselves.
gothatway said:
Popped out to stock up on tin foil earlier today.
Cameron and Juncker reached a private agreement, whereby Cameron would announce that he wouldn't press the Article 50 button for three months. Just for effect, Juncker agreed to say that it all had to happen quickly. Juncker also promised Corbyn a "Kinnock" (shorthand for sinecure/EU gravy train). In return, Corbyn and Cameron agreed to engineer a vote of no confidence in the HoC, thus triggering a GE - to be held before Art50 is invoked. They also agreed to make sure that both parties' manifestos made clear commitments to stay in the EU. So whoever wins the GE can claim that their manifesto trumps the referendum, we stay in the EU and everyone important is happy again. Only slight problem is they haven't worked out how to keep Nige out of the way. Any ideas ?
If both parties did that the turnout or spoilt papers would rocket, also they'd get slated in the press.Cameron and Juncker reached a private agreement, whereby Cameron would announce that he wouldn't press the Article 50 button for three months. Just for effect, Juncker agreed to say that it all had to happen quickly. Juncker also promised Corbyn a "Kinnock" (shorthand for sinecure/EU gravy train). In return, Corbyn and Cameron agreed to engineer a vote of no confidence in the HoC, thus triggering a GE - to be held before Art50 is invoked. They also agreed to make sure that both parties' manifestos made clear commitments to stay in the EU. So whoever wins the GE can claim that their manifesto trumps the referendum, we stay in the EU and everyone important is happy again. Only slight problem is they haven't worked out how to keep Nige out of the way. Any ideas ?
GhostDriver said:
good thread.
I voted out, reasons being the gravy train bureaucracy, inefficiency, power balance of the French and Germans, the fact that plenty of other nations have worldwide trade treaties and are doing fine, immigration although not a biggie for me, is i feel at tipping point. Yes there's loads but we need it for industry, but we have enough and need no more. Lastly the way the southern economies were treated too, lets just loan them more money instead of giving them some concessions to help them grow their economies, they were just remortgaged. Cant end well.
So back to the thread, I honestly don't want to leave. I voted leave because I think and hope Europe wont want to risk loosing us and will change, they surely have to so as to stop the domino effect. Problem is they might not let us back in to stop the domino effect, so it could well be we took a bullet for our European neighbours.
Either way I think this had to be done and stand by my vote.
We will probably stay in the EU in an arrangement similar to Norway's. It will, if the EU has any sense, be at a virtually identical cost as we'll get something back, the seas probably, although we don't have the boats to fish them. I voted out, reasons being the gravy train bureaucracy, inefficiency, power balance of the French and Germans, the fact that plenty of other nations have worldwide trade treaties and are doing fine, immigration although not a biggie for me, is i feel at tipping point. Yes there's loads but we need it for industry, but we have enough and need no more. Lastly the way the southern economies were treated too, lets just loan them more money instead of giving them some concessions to help them grow their economies, they were just remortgaged. Cant end well.
So back to the thread, I honestly don't want to leave. I voted leave because I think and hope Europe wont want to risk loosing us and will change, they surely have to so as to stop the domino effect. Problem is they might not let us back in to stop the domino effect, so it could well be we took a bullet for our European neighbours.
Either way I think this had to be done and stand by my vote.
So nothing fundamental changes.
Derek Smith said:
Monkeylegend said:
Farage has already backtracked on NHS investment.
He promised nothing. He's no one. he's just some guy. Anyone who took anything he said at face value is an idiot. He's got no way of fulfilling his promises, he's not in government.amgmcqueen said:
As a leaver, if Boris managed to get the reforms that CMD failed to, I could see myself voting to remain in the EU.
As others have said, Cameron should have set the winning post at a 60% majority imo. The result was virtually 50/50.
fAs others have said, Cameron should have set the winning post at a 60% majority imo. The result was virtually 50/50.
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