What are the people of Europe saying? Anecdotaly.

[Mr Tidy]

tenfour said:

Had some Pizza with our Italian neighbours last night. Like many, they were shocked that we voted to leave and also a little envious that, no matter what, they will never have the option to do the same.

I'm a Scottish expat, living in a largely European community in the Middle East. The general consensus so far is that Merkel and friends ought to be really rather worried indeed: Holland, Denmark and possibly even France will start making noises about a referendum soon.

Meanwhile, north of the border, Nicola bd Krankie appears to be the only politician who wants to join Europe

Well she would, wouldn't she - loads of EU subsidies for infrastructure improvements in borderline bankrupt states! But at least the rest of the UK wouldn't be paying for them any more! Good riddance!

Why don't the rest of the UK get a vote on whether we want to maintain a union to subsidise the ungrateful Sturgeonists, who represent less than 10% of the UK electorate? Or would that be more democratic than our political masters are comfortable with (mind you most of them are out of work just now)!

Next referendum please - Scotland out!

[Kolbenkopp]

REALIST123 said:

Well, at least Merkel is talking some sense now. No need to be nasty, no rush and talks need to be held in an objective, good climate and not focused on trying to deter others from leaving.

Perhaps her unions and businesses have had a word?

I think she is, as usual, cleverer than people think. IMO, she's looking at two paths:

- You guys either swim and keep buying BMWs.
- Or you sink and might reconsider on the referendum.

None of these outcomes is helped by Germany applying pressure on the UK. And while the trade surplus that Germany has with the UK is significant, it is not nearly large enough to put the country at risk. So the best option for her is to wait and see.

[nadger]

My Danish friends and family have generally been horrified at the result. Other than 2 of them, they cannot believe that Britian has moved so far to the right. They see it as close-minded and jingoistic.
The other two are delighted, but one of them is an avowed eurosceptic journalist (who, bizarrely, recieves part of his wage packet from the EU?!) and the other is a soldier with some serious anti-Islam ideas who hates the fact that migrants are cominf to Denmark.

[Robertj21a]

nadger said:

My Danish friends and family have generally been horrified at the result. Other than 2 of them, they cannot believe that Britian has moved so far to the right. They see it as close-minded and jingoistic.
The other two are delighted, but one of them is an avowed eurosceptic journalist (who, bizarrely, recieves part of his wage packet from the EU?!) and the other is a soldier with some serious anti-Islam ideas who hates the fact that migrants are cominf to Denmark.

I think it's a bit dangerous to start implying that 'Britain has moved so far to the right' - it's true that a few may come over that way but the majority have simply voted in a referendum to get out of the EU. Although immigration became a significant issue, it was primarily the *uncontrolled* immigration required by the EU that caused most concern - certainly for those future years when we're not even sure who will then be in the EU.

I accept that uncontrolled immigration has become a major debating point but Leavers were also concerned about our laws being overruled by the EU, coupled with the EU commitment to greater federalism.

[Axionknight]

Robertj21a said:

I think it's a bit dangerous to start implying that 'Britain has moved so far to the right' - it's true that a few may come over that way but the majority have simply voted in a referendum to get out of the EU. Although immigration became a significant issue, it was primarily the *uncontrolled* immigration required by the EU that caused most concern - certainly for those future years when we're not even sure who will then be in the EU.

I accept that uncontrolled immigration has become a major debating point but Leavers were also concerned about our laws being overruled by the EU, coupled with the EU commitment to greater federalism.

Nah, we're all just jack booted, goose stepping racists who parade around with a Saint Georges Cross draped over our shoulders, didn't you get the memo?

[Randy Winkman]

I'm not sure why people try to suggest others are implying they are "all" anything. I'd say the result was a reflection of a rise in intolerance of other races, creeds and colours. It doesn't mean all those that voted out think the same.

[grumbledoak]

Randy Winkman said:

I'm not sure why people try to suggest others are implying they are "all" anything. I'd say the result was a reflection of a rise in intolerance of other races, creeds and colours. It doesn't mean all those that voted out think the same.

I cannot begin to think how you have missed the narrative that the Remain voters were the young, clever, shiny, and nice people while the Leave voters were old, stupid, short, and racist. It has been a particularly unpleasant part of the campaign. A campaign that backfired largely because real people can actually spot lies when they are that big.

[Kawasicki]

Here in southern Germany I would say that 60% of the people I have spoken with believe that it would be a close run thing if Germans were given the choice. The other 40% say that "if they want to leave, then they should leave". There hasn't been any anti-Brit sentiment though.

[Guybrush]

Mr Tidy said:

tenfour said:

Had some Pizza with our Italian neighbours last night. Like many, they were shocked that we voted to leave and also a little envious that, no matter what, they will never have the option to do the same.

I'm a Scottish expat, living in a largely European community in the Middle East. The general consensus so far is that Merkel and friends ought to be really rather worried indeed: Holland, Denmark and possibly even France will start making noises about a referendum soon.

Meanwhile, north of the border, Nicola bd Krankie appears to be the only politician who wants to join Europe

Well she would, wouldn't she - loads of EU subsidies for infrastructure improvements in borderline bankrupt states! But at least the rest of the UK wouldn't be paying for them any more! Good riddance!

Why don't the rest of the UK get a vote on whether we want to maintain a union to subsidise the ungrateful Sturgeonists, who represent less than 10% of the UK electorate? Or would that be more democratic than our political masters are comfortable with (mind you most of them are out of work just now)!

Next referendum please - Scotland out!

All of this sounds reasonable. Her and Salmond that oily worm trying to punch above their weight. I'm not convinced Europe wants them, surely they want a country that can reduce their 20 billion shortfall not add to it. Which seems odd Turkey and those bust ex communist countries will join soon enough - maybe they won't join now that we're escaping the EU's clutches and won't be giving them free money.

[Composite Guru]

This is what one Italian economic journalist thinks to the Brexit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Futxf1U2f8

[MarshPhantom]

grumbledoak said:

Randy Winkman said:

I'm not sure why people try to suggest others are implying they are "all" anything. I'd say the result was a reflection of a rise in intolerance of other races, creeds and colours. It doesn't mean all those that voted out think the same.

I cannot begin to think how you have missed the narrative that the Remain voters were the young, clever, shiny, and nice people while the Leave voters were old, stupid, short, and racist. It has been a particularly unpleasant part of the campaign. A campaign that backfired largely because real people can actually spot lies when they are that big.

And remainers were traitors IIRC.

You should grow a thicker skin you poor little poppet.

[tenfour]

Randy Winkman said:

I'm not sure why people try to suggest others are implying they are "all" anything. I'd say the result was a reflection of a rise in intolerance of other races, creeds and colours. It doesn't mean all those that voted out think the same.

Well now, I know that one of the 'Leavers' was a young, half-Kenyan/half Sri Lankan female who recently quit her job as lawyer in the City.

What does that do to your 'Leave = Bigot' model?

[grumbledoak]

MarshPhantom said:

You should grow a thicker skin you poor little poppet.

Coping fine, thanks. How are the grapes today?

[minimoog]

grumbledoak said:

Randy Winkman said:

I'm not sure why people try to suggest others are implying they are "all" anything. I'd say the result was a reflection of a rise in intolerance of other races, creeds and colours. It doesn't mean all those that voted out think the same.

I cannot begin to think how you have missed the narrative that the Remain voters were the young, clever, shiny, and nice people while the Leave voters were old, stupid, short, and racist. It has been a particularly unpleasant part of the campaign. A campaign that backfired largely because real people can actually spot lies when they are that big.

They can't spot them when they're this big. The Remain campaign didn't backfire. The Leave campaign won on their own lying terms.

[MarshPhantom]

tenfour said:

Randy Winkman said:

I'm not sure why people try to suggest others are implying they are "all" anything. I'd say the result was a reflection of a rise in intolerance of other races, creeds and colours. It doesn't mean all those that voted out think the same.

Well now, I know that one of the 'Leavers' was a young, half-Kenyan/half Sri Lankan female who recently quit her job as lawyer in the City.

What does that do to your 'Leave = Bigot' model?

Try to keep up. Absolutely nobody has claimed that all Leave voters are racist, but the Leave campaign saw no problem with appealing to the racist voter.

Got that, before we have to suffer anymore anecdotes about people that aren't racist voting leave.

[Guybrush]

minimoog said:

grumbledoak said:

Randy Winkman said:

I'm not sure why people try to suggest others are implying they are "all" anything. I'd say the result was a reflection of a rise in intolerance of other races, creeds and colours. It doesn't mean all those that voted out think the same.

I cannot begin to think how you have missed the narrative that the Remain voters were the young, clever, shiny, and nice people while the Leave voters were old, stupid, short, and racist. It has been a particularly unpleasant part of the campaign. A campaign that backfired largely because real people can actually spot lies when they are that big.

They can't spot them when they're this big. The Remain campaign didn't backfire. The Leave campaign won on their own lying terms.

Where's the 'lie'? We do send that much to the EU. We could use some of it to increase funding to the NHS. When we stop sending it, we will have control over the full amount.

[minimoog]

Guybrush said:

Where's the 'lie'?

If you can't see it, little wonder Leavers are branded thick.

[Guybrush]

MarshPhantom said:

tenfour said:

Randy Winkman said:

I'm not sure why people try to suggest others are implying they are "all" anything. I'd say the result was a reflection of a rise in intolerance of other races, creeds and colours. It doesn't mean all those that voted out think the same.

Well now, I know that one of the 'Leavers' was a young, half-Kenyan/half Sri Lankan female who recently quit her job as lawyer in the City.

What does that do to your 'Leave = Bigot' model?

Try to keep up. Absolutely nobody has claimed that all Leave voters are racist, but the Leave campaign saw no problem with appealing to the racist voter.

Got that, before we have to suffer anymore anecdotes about people that aren't racist voting leave.

A 'racist' voter can find appeal in many places where racism wasn't the intention. If you show a sea of faces walking towards Europe, where's the racism? What's 'race' got to do with it? The argument was about control of numbers, not control of race, colour, creed etc. Just numbers. Later we will be able to choose based on skillset. Just like sensible mature grown up people.

[Guybrush]

minimoog said:

Guybrush said:

Where's the 'lie'?

If you can't see it, little wonder Leavers are branded thick.

You may have missed the rest of my message.

[StottyEvo]

minimoog said:

grumbledoak said:

Randy Winkman said:

I'm not sure why people try to suggest others are implying they are "all" anything. I'd say the result was a reflection of a rise in intolerance of other races, creeds and colours. It doesn't mean all those that voted out think the same.

I cannot begin to think how you have missed the narrative that the Remain voters were the young, clever, shiny, and nice people while the Leave voters were old, stupid, short, and racist. It has been a particularly unpleasant part of the campaign. A campaign that backfired largely because real people can actually spot lies when they are that big.

They can't spot them when they're this big. The Remain campaign didn't backfire. The Leave campaign won on their own lying terms.

I've been confused at this too, during the campaigning I completely disregarded the debates on economy as I knew that it would suffer if we chose to leave. But the 350m a week is the gross figure that we pay for EU membership is it not? I know the net is much closer to 180m, but the gross is certainly 350m.

The arguments were misleading yes, but I can't see how the claimed figure is an out an out lie, as its factually correct