What are the people of Europe saying? Anecdotaly.

[Guybrush]

StottyEvo said:

minimoog said:

grumbledoak said:

Randy Winkman said:

I'm not sure why people try to suggest others are implying they are "all" anything. I'd say the result was a reflection of a rise in intolerance of other races, creeds and colours. It doesn't mean all those that voted out think the same.

I cannot begin to think how you have missed the narrative that the Remain voters were the young, clever, shiny, and nice people while the Leave voters were old, stupid, short, and racist. It has been a particularly unpleasant part of the campaign. A campaign that backfired largely because real people can actually spot lies when they are that big.

They can't spot them when they're this big. The Remain campaign didn't backfire. The Leave campaign won on their own lying terms.

I've been confused at this too, during the campaigning I completely disregarded the debates on economy as I knew that it would suffer if we chose to leave. But the 350m a week is the gross figure that we pay for EU membership is it not? I know the net is much closer to 180m, but the gross is certainly 350m.

The arguments were misleading yes, but I can't see how the claimed figure is an out an out lie, as its factually correct

Yes, I think many remainians are suffering from group hysteria and it's blinding them on many issues.

[pim]

Sister lives abroad in the Netherlands.Surprised was her answer on leaving but they understand the leave vote.

Yes there are immigration problems in Holland some villages have big problems.They do admire the Brits for their wanting of independence and demanding it.

The Dutch trade will carry on with the UK both have always been sea trading nations looking outward.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Mr Tidy said:

tenfour said:

Had some Pizza with our Italian neighbours last night. Like many, they were shocked that we voted to leave and also a little envious that, no matter what, they will never have the option to do the same.

I'm a Scottish expat, living in a largely European community in the Middle East. The general consensus so far is that Merkel and friends ought to be really rather worried indeed: Holland, Denmark and possibly even France will start making noises about a referendum soon.

Meanwhile, north of the border, Nicola bd Krankie appears to be the only politician who wants to join Europe

Up to now Scotland like the UK, Wales and Northern Ireland, has been receiving cash payouts which `seem' to be coming from the EU, but the reality of course is that it is those payments from the EU are just a small part of the 10 billion plus pounds that the UK pays into EU coffers every year going back to where it came from in the first place.
What Sturgeon does not seem to realize, is that for Scotland to be a member of the EU, she will have to PAY the EU membership fee, which will be larger than any rebates or subsidies that Scotland gets back from the EU. Result, Scotland will be the net loser, unless it manages to sell the into the EU, more of its goods and services, than the EU sells into Scotland. Or does Sturgeon believe that the EU will be paying `her' billions for Scotland to be a member of the EU?

Well she would, wouldn't she - loads of EU subsidies for infrastructure improvements in borderline bankrupt states! But at least the rest of the UK wouldn't be paying for them any more! Good riddance!

Why don't the rest of the UK get a vote on whether we want to maintain a union to subsidise the ungrateful Sturgeonists, who represent less than 10% of the UK electorate? Or would that be more democratic than our political masters are comfortable with (mind you most of them are out of work just now)!

Next referendum please - Scotland out!

[Pan Pan Pan]

StottyEvo said:

minimoog said:

grumbledoak said:

Randy Winkman said:

I'm not sure why people try to suggest others are implying they are "all" anything. I'd say the result was a reflection of a rise in intolerance of other races, creeds and colours. It doesn't mean all those that voted out think the same.

I cannot begin to think how you have missed the narrative that the Remain voters were the young, clever, shiny, and nice people while the Leave voters were old, stupid, short, and racist. It has been a particularly unpleasant part of the campaign. A campaign that backfired largely because real people can actually spot lies when they are that big.

They can't spot them when they're this big. The Remain campaign didn't backfire. The Leave campaign won on their own lying terms.

I've been confused at this too, during the campaigning I completely disregarded the debates on economy as I knew that it would suffer if we chose to leave. But the 350m a week is the gross figure that we pay for EU membership is it not? I know the net is much closer to 180m, but the gross is certainly 350m.

The arguments were misleading yes, but I can't see how the claimed figure is an out an out lie, as its factually correct

And yet even now, the remainians are still peddling the lie, that the UK receives funding from the EU. It does not, and never has since the UK joined the EEC in 1975.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Guybrush said:

minimoog said:

grumbledoak said:

Randy Winkman said:

I'm not sure why people try to suggest others are implying they are "all" anything. I'd say the result was a reflection of a rise in intolerance of other races, creeds and colours. It doesn't mean all those that voted out think the same.

I cannot begin to think how you have missed the narrative that the Remain voters were the young, clever, shiny, and nice people while the Leave voters were old, stupid, short, and racist. It has been a particularly unpleasant part of the campaign. A campaign that backfired largely because real people can actually spot lies when they are that big.

They can't spot them when they're this big. The Remain campaign didn't backfire. The Leave campaign won on their own lying terms.

Where's the 'lie'? We do send that much to the EU. We could use some of it to increase funding to the NHS. When we stop sending it, we will have control over the full amount.

The problem is that there seem to be many who cannot do basic arithmetic, and believe the lie that the UK receives funding FROM the EU.

[mattmurdock]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Guybrush said:

minimoog said:

grumbledoak said:

Randy Winkman said:

I'm not sure why people try to suggest others are implying they are "all" anything. I'd say the result was a reflection of a rise in intolerance of other races, creeds and colours. It doesn't mean all those that voted out think the same.

I cannot begin to think how you have missed the narrative that the Remain voters were the young, clever, shiny, and nice people while the Leave voters were old, stupid, short, and racist. It has been a particularly unpleasant part of the campaign. A campaign that backfired largely because real people can actually spot lies when they are that big.

They can't spot them when they're this big. The Remain campaign didn't backfire. The Leave campaign won on their own lying terms.

Where's the 'lie'? We do send that much to the EU. We could use some of it to increase funding to the NHS. When we stop sending it, we will have control over the full amount.

The problem is that there seem to be many who cannot do basic arithmetic, and believe the lie that the UK receives funding FROM the EU.

Yes, the membership fee (at least for the last year) was around £350 million.

The lie is the first half of their sentence, as we have NEVER EVER actually 'sent' £350 million to the EU.

I'm not sure why Pan Pan Pan thinks that people pointing out this is a lie means that a) they can't do arithmetic and b) that they think the UK receives funding FROM the EU.

I have not met, or discussed online, with a single person who thinks that the UK gets net funding from the EU, so I think his obsession with stating it over and over seems a little unhinged.

[MarshPhantom]

Guybrush said:

MarshPhantom said:

tenfour said:

Randy Winkman said:

I'm not sure why people try to suggest others are implying they are "all" anything. I'd say the result was a reflection of a rise in intolerance of other races, creeds and colours. It doesn't mean all those that voted out think the same.

Well now, I know that one of the 'Leavers' was a young, half-Kenyan/half Sri Lankan female who recently quit her job as lawyer in the City.

What does that do to your 'Leave = Bigot' model?

Try to keep up. Absolutely nobody has claimed that all Leave voters are racist, but the Leave campaign saw no problem with appealing to the racist voter.

Got that, before we have to suffer anymore anecdotes about people that aren't racist voting leave.

A 'racist' voter can find appeal in many places where racism wasn't the intention. If you show a sea of faces walking towards Europe, where's the racism? What's 'race' got to do with it? The argument was about control of numbers, not control of race, colour, creed etc. Just numbers. Later we will be able to choose based on skillset. Just like sensible mature grown up people.

Maybe it's just me but I can't help but feel they were trying to appeal to people that don't like foreigners.

[don4l]

BOR said:

I explained that it was mostly thick people who voted for exit

Well done.

[Jockman]

MarshPhantom said:

Maybe it's just me but I can't help but feel they were trying to appeal to people that don't like foreigners.

That is the first time I've seen 2 of those 3 posters.

[Pan Pan Pan]

mattmurdock said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Guybrush said:

minimoog said:

grumbledoak said:

Randy Winkman said:

I'm not sure why people try to suggest others are implying they are "all" anything. I'd say the result was a reflection of a rise in intolerance of other races, creeds and colours. It doesn't mean all those that voted out think the same.

I cannot begin to think how you have missed the narrative that the Remain voters were the young, clever, shiny, and nice people while the Leave voters were old, stupid, short, and racist. It has been a particularly unpleasant part of the campaign. A campaign that backfired largely because real people can actually spot lies when they are that big.

They can't spot them when they're this big. The Remain campaign didn't backfire. The Leave campaign won on their own lying terms.

Where's the 'lie'? We do send that much to the EU. We could use some of it to increase funding to the NHS. When we stop sending it, we will have control over the full amount.

The problem is that there seem to be many who cannot do basic arithmetic, and believe the lie that the UK receives funding FROM the EU.

Yes, the membership fee (at least for the last year) was around £350 million.

The lie is the first half of their sentence, as we have NEVER EVER actually 'sent' £350 million to the EU.

I'm not sure why Pan Pan Pan thinks that people pointing out this is a lie means that a) they can't do arithmetic and b) that they think the UK receives funding FROM the EU.

I have not met, or discussed online, with a single person who thinks that the UK gets net funding from the EU, so I think his obsession with stating it over and over seems a little unhinged.

Not unhinged, just disturbed by people who cannot do basic arithmetic when it comes to the matter of what the UK sends to the EU every year, and what it gets back. Bearing in mind that all the billions the UK sends to the EU every year is just for the `privilege' of being `allowed' to trade with the EU. Once we get to the question of trade,The FACT is that the EU then sells more INTO the UK, than the UK sells into the EU also seem to escape many people.
Consequently the UK is paying the EU, ten plus billion pounds a year, for added `bonus of losing the trade situation with the EU, which it has done for almost the entire 40 years since the UK 'joined the EEC. (and yet the EU is STILL failing economically) but some still believe that's a `great deal' for the UK. How?

[skahigh]

This thread is now way off topic, it had, until now been quite enjoyable as one of the few Brexit threads without all the bickering!

[Ken Figenus]

mattmurdock said:

I have not met, or discussed online, with a single person who thinks that the UK gets net funding from the EU, so I think his obsession with stating it over and over seems a little unhinged.

Most people know we are a net contributor. Most people also know that the EU funding received refreshes the parts Westminster governments can not reach or can not be arsed about.

Just heard that Cornwall receives £85m from EU pa. That is half a day's UK EU sub...

[Strocky]

Pan Pan Pan said:

I thank you for your support for Scottish Independence

[Pan Pan Pan]

Ken Figenus said:

mattmurdock said:

I have not met, or discussed online, with a single person who thinks that the UK gets net funding from the EU, so I think his obsession with stating it over and over seems a little unhinged.

Most people know we are a net contributor. Most people also know that the EU funding received refreshes the parts Westminster governments can not reach or can not be arsed about.

Just heard that Cornwall receives £85m from EU pa. That is half a day's UK EU sub...

Imagine I am Mr EU, walking down the street, and you are Mr UK coming the other way, and we both know we would like to do some trade with eachother. but I charge you ten billion pounds, BEFORE I will even let you talk about trade with you, let alone DO any trade.
I then give you three billion pounds of your OWN money back. and I walk off with 7 billion pounds of YOUR money in my pockets which you will never see again, and you walk off with three billion pounds of YOUR money in your pockets. Out of the two of us which one has immediately done best out of that great little `deal'?
If we then add the FACT that when we do start trading. I sell you more of my toot, than you sell me of yours (and I manage to do that for almost every year out of 40), Which one of us do you think has won that little trade `deal' as well?

[NAS]

In Germany (I am Dutch) I would say, people generally are worried.

- The UK was always more market oriented than the south of Europe and therefore Germany/Holland has lost a strong partner in pushing for more market orientation (France works quite differently for ex.)
- The Germans see the EU also as something that prevents wars. This is a country that was split up in two until quite recently, don't forget. Together with the rise of nationalistic parties (this development arrived very late in Germany -because being nationalistic was until about 10 years ago a no-go - but has now taken hold) any weakening of the EU causes concern.

[rscott]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Not unhinged, just disturbed by people who cannot do basic arithmetic when it comes to the matter of what the UK sends to the EU every year, and what it gets back. Bearing in mind that all the billions the UK sends to the EU every year is just for the `privilege' of being `allowed' to trade with the EU. Once we get to the question of trade,The FACT is that the EU then sells more INTO the UK, than the UK sells into the EU also seem to escape many people.
Consequently the UK is paying the EU, ten plus billion pounds a year, for added `bonus of losing the trade situation with the EU, which it has done for almost the entire 40 years since the UK 'joined the EEC. (and yet the EU is STILL failing economically) but some still believe that's a `great deal' for the UK. How?

Most of us who voted to remain can do basic arithmetic - we knew that we paid more into the EU than we got back. I've not seen any claims anywhere of the opposite.

We could also do the basic arithmetic when the Leave campaign said they'd continue to fund the various EU funded projects, scientific research and payments to farmers,etc . It was very obvious then that there would be less than £350m a week available to give to the NHS, no matter what the official Leave billboards said.

[Esseesse]

StottyEvo said:

The arguments were misleading yes, but I can't see how the claimed figure is an out an out lie, as its factually correct

I just saw it as the normal BS spin that I have come to expect pretty much anywhere in politics. No more misleading than Cameron pretending he had any ability to get net migration down to the 10's of thousands.

[johnxjsc1985]

Esseesse said:

I just saw it as the normal BS spin that I have come to expect pretty much anywhere in politics. No more misleading than Cameron pretending he had any ability to get net migration down to the 10's of thousands.

Its quite remarkable that people think that the Leave Campaign are the first lot of politicians to lie.
its always been there and Blair and his hatchet man made it into an Art form.

[Murph7355]

mattmurdock said:

...
The lie is the first half of their sentence, as we have NEVER EVER actually 'sent' £350 million to the EU.
...
I have not met, or discussed online, with a single person who thinks that the UK gets net funding from the EU, so I think his obsession with stating it over and over seems a little unhinged.

I guess "We are billed..." wouldn't fit in the space available that "We send..." took up and they didn't want a longer bus

As for people noting receipt of funding, I think PPP is referring to comments like "Cornwall gets x from the EU, farmers get y, Wales gets z, Scotland gets 2z" etc. You haven't said that, but some people do.

rscott said:

...It was very obvious then that there would be less than £350m a week available to give to the NHS, no matter what the official Leave billboards said.

If we're being literal and absolute about the wording on a bus, the wording on that bus doesn't say 350m will go to the NHS.

[Axionknight]

This thread was an interesting read until you dingleberries decided to argue the toss in here rather than in one of the other six hundred EU related threads.

Nice one.