EU Roadworthiness Package BE AWARE
Discussion
Now that we are leaving the EU it might be a good time to write to your MP asking that the Government do not introduce the disgusting European Roadworthiness Package.
This legislation is (was) due for implementation from 20th May 2017. Apart from increasing the MOT fee to £72 it introduces 14 more points to our MOT. The aim was to get us more in line with the German TUV test.
The additional points cover things like tyre pressure warning gauges and dashboard warning lights as well as optional extras. Because this type of item is often inbuilt software on many cars the cost of repairing such faults can be more than the car is worth. One classic car magazine estimated that an additional 1 million cars between 3 and 20 years old would be scrapped (scrapped not just fail the MOT) annually because of this legislation. Imagine having a beautiful 1998 Jaguar (as one reader did) this car is virtually concours condition but the air bag warning light is defective. Instead of a common sense approach so that the defect is noted as an advisory, the car will fail. With this particular vehicle there is (apparently) no replacement part available anywhere in the World and the fault cannot be fixed. This car will have to be scrapped or taken off the road. Even fairly new vehicles can face a bill of £2,500+ to fix minor dashboard problems. Would you spend £2.5k to fix a car worth £5k?
I have been in communication with my MP for a long time about this and he is liaising with the Minister concerned but if you have a car over 3 year old you need to know about it and the impact that it could have on you and your car.
This legislation is driven by the big European car companies who have multi million € lobbying groups in Brussels. The ultimate aim is to get everyone to lease cars from them rather than own them and then return them for re-cycling after 3-5 years. Good for VW and Co and for the banks, not good for the rest of us. Scrapping perfectly good cars because they have minor faults is not good for the environment or the economy.
Now we are coming out of the EU there is a chance to stop this kind of lunacy here in the UK.
(P.S. I used to be on this site as Oily Puddles but my account got messed up and I have't been able to post for a while)
This legislation is (was) due for implementation from 20th May 2017. Apart from increasing the MOT fee to £72 it introduces 14 more points to our MOT. The aim was to get us more in line with the German TUV test.
The additional points cover things like tyre pressure warning gauges and dashboard warning lights as well as optional extras. Because this type of item is often inbuilt software on many cars the cost of repairing such faults can be more than the car is worth. One classic car magazine estimated that an additional 1 million cars between 3 and 20 years old would be scrapped (scrapped not just fail the MOT) annually because of this legislation. Imagine having a beautiful 1998 Jaguar (as one reader did) this car is virtually concours condition but the air bag warning light is defective. Instead of a common sense approach so that the defect is noted as an advisory, the car will fail. With this particular vehicle there is (apparently) no replacement part available anywhere in the World and the fault cannot be fixed. This car will have to be scrapped or taken off the road. Even fairly new vehicles can face a bill of £2,500+ to fix minor dashboard problems. Would you spend £2.5k to fix a car worth £5k?
I have been in communication with my MP for a long time about this and he is liaising with the Minister concerned but if you have a car over 3 year old you need to know about it and the impact that it could have on you and your car.
This legislation is driven by the big European car companies who have multi million € lobbying groups in Brussels. The ultimate aim is to get everyone to lease cars from them rather than own them and then return them for re-cycling after 3-5 years. Good for VW and Co and for the banks, not good for the rest of us. Scrapping perfectly good cars because they have minor faults is not good for the environment or the economy.
Now we are coming out of the EU there is a chance to stop this kind of lunacy here in the UK.
(P.S. I used to be on this site as Oily Puddles but my account got messed up and I have't been able to post for a while)
Sounds like a bit of scaremongering there TBH. Here's the actual documentation:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri...
TPMS sensors run out of battery after about ten years, but prices are coming down as the need to replace them becomes more common and it's usually possible to get the system deactivated anyway with the right diagnostic tools. They're only listed as a minor fail anyway, so the certificate can be issued and the car can be driven.
Airbag is a major fail but honestly I find the story of someone who can't possibly get their airbag warning light sorted out for less than £2500 a bit hard to believe. I'm sure it's been reported in the press, but I just can't believe that the owner has no other options. If they're really not bothered about the airbag system not working then a little bit of wiring gives you a light that does what it should, airbags can be wired out with capacitors to fool the ECU or if it's the airbag ECU itself then places like BBA Reman can repair them.
Dodgy ABS systems are covered too, but that's a good thing as they don't always fail safe and can activate the ABS when they shouldn't. Nothing like trying to stop a car when it thinks it's got a locked wheel so is pulsing the brakes like crazy for no reason.
The current MoT is a joke, making it tougher would be no bad thing.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri...
TPMS sensors run out of battery after about ten years, but prices are coming down as the need to replace them becomes more common and it's usually possible to get the system deactivated anyway with the right diagnostic tools. They're only listed as a minor fail anyway, so the certificate can be issued and the car can be driven.
Airbag is a major fail but honestly I find the story of someone who can't possibly get their airbag warning light sorted out for less than £2500 a bit hard to believe. I'm sure it's been reported in the press, but I just can't believe that the owner has no other options. If they're really not bothered about the airbag system not working then a little bit of wiring gives you a light that does what it should, airbags can be wired out with capacitors to fool the ECU or if it's the airbag ECU itself then places like BBA Reman can repair them.
Dodgy ABS systems are covered too, but that's a good thing as they don't always fail safe and can activate the ABS when they shouldn't. Nothing like trying to stop a car when it thinks it's got a locked wheel so is pulsing the brakes like crazy for no reason.
The current MoT is a joke, making it tougher would be no bad thing.
Interesting to read your responses. My information came not just from the industry publications but also directly from a tester who is doing the training for the new test. He stated to me that under the new rules he expected to fail the vast majority of cars he tests as opposed to about 50% now. I don't think he had anything to gain by lying to me. My MP is concerned about this matter and is in discussion with the Minister about it as he fears a lot of people will be affected.
My position is not that I am against cars being safe but I do I believe that minor faults should remain as 'advisories' only not become 'fails'. If I choose to drive a car with defective air bags, no airbags, (or pre-1965) no seatbelt for that matter it should be a matter of choice. If such a 'fault' was 'advisory' any future owner would be aware should they buy the car. Scrapping cars for minor faults is absurd. The Jaguar concerned reportedly had had airbags added as an optional extra, if the owner hadn't specified them the car would be fine, because he had, it faces being removed from the road as the fault cannot be fixed.
None of you seem as concerned about this as I am, perhaps I am completely wrong and it will make little change. It will be interesting to see how it plays out after 20th May.
Personally I think that we are the envy of much of Europe (not the EU) currently rather than a leper! Whether we are in the EU or not Greece still can't (and won't) pay its bills, Spain and Italy are in a total mess and will remain so and we have been under the control of people we didn't (and can't) vote for. I am not a politician but it seems to me that for good or ill the people of Britain have voted, we are now committed to coming out and we need to get on with making the best of it.
My position is not that I am against cars being safe but I do I believe that minor faults should remain as 'advisories' only not become 'fails'. If I choose to drive a car with defective air bags, no airbags, (or pre-1965) no seatbelt for that matter it should be a matter of choice. If such a 'fault' was 'advisory' any future owner would be aware should they buy the car. Scrapping cars for minor faults is absurd. The Jaguar concerned reportedly had had airbags added as an optional extra, if the owner hadn't specified them the car would be fine, because he had, it faces being removed from the road as the fault cannot be fixed.
None of you seem as concerned about this as I am, perhaps I am completely wrong and it will make little change. It will be interesting to see how it plays out after 20th May.
Personally I think that we are the envy of much of Europe (not the EU) currently rather than a leper! Whether we are in the EU or not Greece still can't (and won't) pay its bills, Spain and Italy are in a total mess and will remain so and we have been under the control of people we didn't (and can't) vote for. I am not a politician but it seems to me that for good or ill the people of Britain have voted, we are now committed to coming out and we need to get on with making the best of it.
Edited by Puddles of Oil on Sunday 26th June 12:33
Which model of Jaguar is it? - Presumably an XJ40 or XJ-S?
To my knowledge, an air bag was never offered as an optional extra - the UK market cars either came with one or they didn't. This is certainly true for the XJ40.
If it was an XJ40, the airbag was introduced in 1992 on the steering wheel only. 1993 XJ40s have an airbag sign on the VIN plate - 1992 cars do not. In late 1993, a passenger's airbag was introduced in place of the glove box - so two airbags.
This was the standard specification. The airbag was a stand alone type - no electronics and no airbag light.
The X300 used an electronic system like a modern car (airbags were rare in the time of the Xj40). These have an airbag light. The airbag was not an option on the X300 - it was part of the standard specification. There is no X300 non-airbag steering wheel part number listed - so presumably every X300 had an airbag. They certainly did in the UK.
To my knowledge, an air bag was never offered as an optional extra - the UK market cars either came with one or they didn't. This is certainly true for the XJ40.
If it was an XJ40, the airbag was introduced in 1992 on the steering wheel only. 1993 XJ40s have an airbag sign on the VIN plate - 1992 cars do not. In late 1993, a passenger's airbag was introduced in place of the glove box - so two airbags.
This was the standard specification. The airbag was a stand alone type - no electronics and no airbag light.
The X300 used an electronic system like a modern car (airbags were rare in the time of the Xj40). These have an airbag light. The airbag was not an option on the X300 - it was part of the standard specification. There is no X300 non-airbag steering wheel part number listed - so presumably every X300 had an airbag. They certainly did in the UK.
charltjr said:
Sounds like a bit of scaremongering there TBH. Here's the actual documentation:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri...
TPMS sensors run out of battery after about ten years, but prices are coming down as the need to replace them becomes more common and it's usually possible to get the system deactivated anyway with the right diagnostic tools. They're only listed as a minor fail anyway, so the certificate can be issued and the car can be driven.
Airbag is a major fail but honestly I find the story of someone who can't possibly get their airbag warning light sorted out for less than £2500 a bit hard to believe. I'm sure it's been reported in the press, but I just can't believe that the owner has no other options. If they're really not bothered about the airbag system not working then a little bit of wiring gives you a light that does what it should, airbags can be wired out with capacitors to fool the ECU or if it's the airbag ECU itself then places like BBA Reman can repair them.
The current MoT is a joke, making it tougher would be no bad thing.
Of course it's BS but the papers love to overhype anything on a slow news day or blame the EU, just cos owners dont want to fix a car they bought without fully realising the issues that come with car ownership (you know, morons), what next "my dogs poos and i'm expected to clean it up" dam the EUs and it's cleaning up after yourself laws.http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri...
TPMS sensors run out of battery after about ten years, but prices are coming down as the need to replace them becomes more common and it's usually possible to get the system deactivated anyway with the right diagnostic tools. They're only listed as a minor fail anyway, so the certificate can be issued and the car can be driven.
Airbag is a major fail but honestly I find the story of someone who can't possibly get their airbag warning light sorted out for less than £2500 a bit hard to believe. I'm sure it's been reported in the press, but I just can't believe that the owner has no other options. If they're really not bothered about the airbag system not working then a little bit of wiring gives you a light that does what it should, airbags can be wired out with capacitors to fool the ECU or if it's the airbag ECU itself then places like BBA Reman can repair them.
The current MoT is a joke, making it tougher would be no bad thing.
"IF" the car owner had half a brain the MOT fail side of the AB light being on could be fixed for under £40 (inc parts and lab) or under a fiver DIY, BUT it's easyer to pissandmoan and blame somone else for thier lack or forsight.
Save me going through it - PDF here: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/... - what, if anything is in there that isn't in the MOT already?
Are TPMS and Airbag the only changes...? FFS.
Are TPMS and Airbag the only changes...? FFS.
Auntieroll said:
No, the warning light needs to come on with the initial power up and then go out after a few seconds, easily fixed (or so a close friend told me) with a £5 time switch from a well known internet auction site ....
Well, quite. You could make any warning light do whatever you wanted with a 555 timer IC and a capacitor, which would cost about 15p.Puddles of Oil said:
My information came not just from the industry publications but also directly from a tester who is doing the training for the new test. He stated to me that under the new rules he expected to fail the vast majority of cars he tests as opposed to about 50% now.
So he is saying that 50% of the cars he tests now fail? He needs to get a better class of customers 
Also, the "vast majority" have ABS, airbag or tyre pressure warning lights faults? Again, I find that very hard to believe.
I certainly think abs and airbag faults should be a fail. Not tyre pressure but no problem with an advisory on them.
As others have said, I suspect a storm in a teacup and frankly, if you cannot afford to maintain the safety features on a car then perhaps you need to rethink your ownership of it?
Puddles of Oil said:
Interesting to read your responses. My information came not just from the industry publications but also directly from a tester who is doing the training for the new test. He stated to me that under the new rules he expected to fail the vast majority of cars he tests as opposed to about 50% now. I don't think he had anything to gain by lying to me. My MP is concerned about this matter and is in discussion with the Minister about it as he fears a lot of people will be affected.
My position is not that I am against cars being safe but I do I believe that minor faults should remain as 'advisories' only not become 'fails'. If I choose to drive a car with defective air bags, no airbags, (or pre-1965) no seatbelt for that matter it should be a matter of choice. If such a 'fault' was 'advisory' any future owner would be aware should they buy the car. Scrapping cars for minor faults is absurd. The Jaguar concerned reportedly had had airbags added as an optional extra, if the owner hadn't specified them the car would be fine, because he had, it faces being removed from the road as the fault cannot be fixed.
None of you seem as concerned about this as I am, perhaps I am completely wrong and it will make little change. It will be interesting to see how it plays out after 20th May.
Personally I think that we are the envy of much of Europe (not the EU) currently rather than a leper! Whether we are in the EU or not Greece still can't (and won't) pay its bills, Spain and Italy are in a total mess and will remain so and we have been under the control of people we didn't (and can't) vote for. I am not a politician but it seems to me that for good or ill the people of Britain have voted, we are now committed to coming out and we need to get on with making the best of it.
What training for what new test?My position is not that I am against cars being safe but I do I believe that minor faults should remain as 'advisories' only not become 'fails'. If I choose to drive a car with defective air bags, no airbags, (or pre-1965) no seatbelt for that matter it should be a matter of choice. If such a 'fault' was 'advisory' any future owner would be aware should they buy the car. Scrapping cars for minor faults is absurd. The Jaguar concerned reportedly had had airbags added as an optional extra, if the owner hadn't specified them the car would be fine, because he had, it faces being removed from the road as the fault cannot be fixed.
None of you seem as concerned about this as I am, perhaps I am completely wrong and it will make little change. It will be interesting to see how it plays out after 20th May.
Personally I think that we are the envy of much of Europe (not the EU) currently rather than a leper! Whether we are in the EU or not Greece still can't (and won't) pay its bills, Spain and Italy are in a total mess and will remain so and we have been under the control of people we didn't (and can't) vote for. I am not a politician but it seems to me that for good or ill the people of Britain have voted, we are now committed to coming out and we need to get on with making the best of it.
Edited by Puddles of Oil on Sunday 26th June 12:33
We don't have a fail rate, if anything we get frowned on for failing too many, the headlamp aim test has just been relaxed because of this.
If airbags are fitted they must comply with the MOT regs, they have done for ages, same with ABS, nothing new there, in fact as I said the rules have actually been relaxed.
TPMS is not testable (yet) although it will be in the near future and rightly so, I have seen many cars with run flats with little or no air in them and you would not know from just looking at them, also in tyre monitors are losing popularity now and the systems are starting to use the abs sensors to monitor the tyre pressures (rolling radius)
Puddles of Oil said:
Interesting to read your responses. My information came not just from the industry publications but also directly from a tester who is doing the training for the new test. He stated to me that under the new rules he expected to fail the vast majority of cars he tests as opposed to about 50% now. I don't think he had anything to gain by lying to me. My MP is concerned about this matter and is in discussion with the Minister about it as he fears a lot of people will be affected.
My position is not that I am against cars being safe but I do I believe that minor faults should remain as 'advisories' only not become 'fails'. If I choose to drive a car with defective air bags, no airbags, (or pre-1965) no seatbelt for that matter it should be a matter of choice. If such a 'fault' was 'advisory' any future owner would be aware should they buy the car. Scrapping cars for minor faults is absurd. The Jaguar concerned reportedly had had airbags added as an optional extra, if the owner hadn't specified them the car would be fine, because he had, it faces being removed from the road as the fault cannot be fixed.
None of you seem as concerned about this as I am, perhaps I am completely wrong and it will make little change. It will be interesting to see how it plays out after 20th May.
Personally I think that we are the envy of much of Europe (not the EU) currently rather than a leper! Whether we are in the EU or not Greece still can't (and won't) pay its bills, Spain and Italy are in a total mess and will remain so and we have been under the control of people we didn't (and can't) vote for. I am not a politician but it seems to me that for good or ill the people of Britain have voted, we are now committed to coming out and we need to get on with making the best of it.
Sorry but if a car has a safety feature fitted then it should be working!My position is not that I am against cars being safe but I do I believe that minor faults should remain as 'advisories' only not become 'fails'. If I choose to drive a car with defective air bags, no airbags, (or pre-1965) no seatbelt for that matter it should be a matter of choice. If such a 'fault' was 'advisory' any future owner would be aware should they buy the car. Scrapping cars for minor faults is absurd. The Jaguar concerned reportedly had had airbags added as an optional extra, if the owner hadn't specified them the car would be fine, because he had, it faces being removed from the road as the fault cannot be fixed.
None of you seem as concerned about this as I am, perhaps I am completely wrong and it will make little change. It will be interesting to see how it plays out after 20th May.
Personally I think that we are the envy of much of Europe (not the EU) currently rather than a leper! Whether we are in the EU or not Greece still can't (and won't) pay its bills, Spain and Italy are in a total mess and will remain so and we have been under the control of people we didn't (and can't) vote for. I am not a politician but it seems to me that for good or ill the people of Britain have voted, we are now committed to coming out and we need to get on with making the best of it.
Edited by Puddles of Oil on Sunday 26th June 12:33
You say if you want to drive a car with safety features that are not working then that is your choice, but what about any passengers that might be in your car?
You might not care if you live or die due to the airbags not working or the ABS system not working, but your passengers might!
How about if your tyre pressure system is faulty? - Should your passengers and every other person on the road be put at risk because you've decided you don't need to know if your runflat tyres have lost pressure and could suffer a severe failure hundreds of miles later?
You say it should be your choice if you want the safety features on your car to be working or not, but the fact of the matter is, the safety features are not just there for your safety!
Athlon said:
also in tyre monitors are losing popularity now and the systems are starting to use the abs sensors to monitor the tyre pressures (rolling radius)
That at least is good news. I can see a car with an in wheel sensor failing, and needing a tyre removed and replaced to change a battery that cost £1. Obviously the batteries should be changed when a tyre is changed (perhaps not that often for a high mileage driver) but who knows with a ten year old second hand car. Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff