Is Boris sh*tting himself?
Discussion
vonuber said:
glazbagun said:
Nick Clegg (remember him) in fairly prophetic looking prediction from prior the indyref. Seems like he was well aware that noone had a clue wat the plan was:
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/will-wake-vote...
Bugger me, he's practically nostradamus isn't he. Got it spot on.https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/will-wake-vote...
Strocky said:
Is that the sound of something suddenly braking heavily and being slammed into reverse gear?Strocky said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36637037 said:
Boris Johnson says the UK will continue to "intensify" cooperation with the EU following its vote to leave the EU.
The leading pro-Leave campaigner said exit supporters must accept the 52-48 result was "not entirely overwhelming".
Doubtless one of our resident @rsewipes will be along to denounce him as traitor in short order.The leading pro-Leave campaigner said exit supporters must accept the 52-48 result was "not entirely overwhelming".
eharding said:
vonuber said:
glazbagun said:
Nick Clegg (remember him) in fairly prophetic looking prediction from prior the indyref. Seems like he was well aware that noone had a clue wat the plan was:
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/will-wake-vote...
Bugger me, he's practically nostradamus isn't he. Got it spot on.https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/will-wake-vote...
Strocky said:
In an election campaign such phrasing should be interpreted as saying if you vote for me we are going to stay in the EU.vonuber said:
Strocky said:
Is that the sound of something suddenly braking heavily and being slammed into reverse gear?Sounds like norway to me with some attempted tinkering on immigration which he probably knows will fail but he will try as hard as he can but will just blame brussels again if it comes to nothing.
Still his words might do alot to calm the on-going job exodus and buy some time to develop some kind of plan - which is good and in the national interest at least.
jamiem555 said:
vonuber said:
Bugger me, he's practically nostradamus isn't he. Got it spot on.
Not really. Anyone with half a brain could work that one out. Unfortunately 18 million people have just proved otherwise.Anyway it cant't be that bad - Boris was having fun with the Spencers today. Definitely nothing to worry about.
hoagypubdog said:
I really want us to leave, been best news ever, but didn't dare to expect to win!!
Now let's get on with it..
I feel the same howeverNow let's get on with it..
Edited by hoagypubdog on Sunday 26th June 18:04
We have a media that delights in the negative and is biased beyond belief - you can't fight that just like you can't argues with cmoose.
We have an EU that is a ponzi scheme (and a f
king bad one at that) but it's seem as a better option than standing on our own two feet as a nationWe got an unexpected result (sorry it was) and government didn't have a plan B in case their plan A didn't pass muster
Big business wanted a continuation of the status quo and is driving what is happening behind the scenes (that's a bit scarey on it's own)
I'm currently contemplating turning off the TV and disconnecting my life from the internet - to be honest I'm thinking it's something I probably should have done a while ago because the hope for the common man has gone.
What the f
k is wrong with this country - I could name lots but I can't fix it because I'm not in any position to influence or control - I'm reliant on a political system that didn't want an exit to find one or justify ignoring 52% of the people who voted to leave.I'm not frightened of exit I'm actually frightened that the hope I thought was there is just another dream and I really need to wake up and realise that this country has lost it's soul - it's given it away for a few magic beans
B'stard Child said:
hoagypubdog said:
I really want us to leave, been best news ever, but didn't dare to expect to win!!
Now let's get on with it..
I feel the same howeverNow let's get on with it..
Edited by hoagypubdog on Sunday 26th June 18:04
We have a media that delights in the negative and is biased beyond belief - you can't fight that just like you can't argues with cmoose.
We have an EU that is a ponzi scheme (and a f
king bad one at that) but it's seem as a better option than standing on our own two feet as a nationWe got an unexpected result (sorry it was) and government didn't have a plan B in case their plan A didn't pass muster
Big business wanted a continuation of the status quo and is driving what is happening behind the scenes (that's a bit scarey on it's own)
I'm currently contemplating turning off the TV and disconnecting my life from the internet - to be honest I'm thinking it's something I probably should have done a while ago because the hope for the common man has gone.
What the f
k is wrong with this country - I could name lots but I can't fix it because I'm not in any position to influence or control - I'm reliant on a political system that didn't want an exit to find one or justify ignoring 52% of the people who voted to leave.I'm not frightened of exit I'm actually frightened that the hope I thought was there is just another dream and I really need to wake up and realise that this country has lost it's soul - it's given it away for a few magic beans
kurt535 said:
B'stard Child said:
hoagypubdog said:
I really want us to leave, been best news ever, but didn't dare to expect to win!!
Now let's get on with it..
I feel the same howeverNow let's get on with it..
Edited by hoagypubdog on Sunday 26th June 18:04
We have a media that delights in the negative and is biased beyond belief - you can't fight that just like you can't argues with cmoose.
We have an EU that is a ponzi scheme (and a f
king bad one at that) but it's seem as a better option than standing on our own two feet as a nationWe got an unexpected result (sorry it was) and government didn't have a plan B in case their plan A didn't pass muster
Big business wanted a continuation of the status quo and is driving what is happening behind the scenes (that's a bit scarey on it's own)
I'm currently contemplating turning off the TV and disconnecting my life from the internet - to be honest I'm thinking it's something I probably should have done a while ago because the hope for the common man has gone.
What the f
k is wrong with this country - I could name lots but I can't fix it because I'm not in any position to influence or control - I'm reliant on a political system that didn't want an exit to find one or justify ignoring 52% of the people who voted to leave.I'm not frightened of exit I'm actually frightened that the hope I thought was there is just another dream and I really need to wake up and realise that this country has lost it's soul - it's given it away for a few magic beans
kurt535 said:
give me a break...lost it's soul....wtf wrong with this country....you really don't know? low cognitive individuals, lazy as sin who preferred their benefits to work who saw the jobs they refused to take filled by migrants. 2 (or 3 successive prime ministers) failed to keep dabs on communities (another word for trouble spots). benefits squeezed. austerity measures. all led to major brexit supporting grounds. gt yarmouth, lowestoft, basildon, barrow, hull, hartlepool. england has more s -holes than any other country i know. but what will change with brexit? will the lazy english reclaim their 'jobs'? f/o they will. ultimately the vote was carried by these people and , before i forget, the over 60's who can't stand jonny foreigner either..........
Oi! I'm from Hartlepool (45+ years since I left). There again, they did vote in a tt in a monkey suit to be mayor. As you were.....stemll said:
kurt535 said:
give me a break...lost it's soul....wtf wrong with this country....you really don't know? low cognitive individuals, lazy as sin who preferred their benefits to work who saw the jobs they refused to take filled by migrants. 2 (or 3 successive prime ministers) failed to keep dabs on communities (another word for trouble spots). benefits squeezed. austerity measures. all led to major brexit supporting grounds. gt yarmouth, lowestoft, basildon, barrow, hull, hartlepool. england has more s -holes than any other country i know. but what will change with brexit? will the lazy english reclaim their 'jobs'? f/o they will. ultimately the vote was carried by these people and , before i forget, the over 60's who can't stand jonny foreigner either..........
Oi! I'm from Hartlepool (45+ years since I left). There again, they did vote in a tt in a monkey suit to be mayor. As you were.....
have the hung the monkey mayor yet??///ajd said:
That post above is worth pasting
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
Well written speculation is still just speculation. As I wrote in the other thread where this was posted prior to it being closed, it makes lots of assumptions. It also mentions one day of market movements as evidence which shows poor judgement. If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
desolate said:
To be fair it's only been 1 working day. We can hardly rush to judgement yet.
Anyway it cant't be that bad - Boris was having fun with the Spencers today. Definitely nothing to worry about.
Incredible really. The world leaders are running around like headless chickens trying to sort out the mess. I'm sure they have other issues the would rather concentrate on. Meanwhile the clueless architect of the disaster is poncing about on a cricket fieldAnyway it cant't be that bad - Boris was having fun with the Spencers today. Definitely nothing to worry about.
Ok we have had one working day and a weekend of prattling about, full of amusing comments like "this is as bad as arguing with cmoose" and various wiseacres quipping humourous and not so edifying barbs, all with a healthy dose of big babies moaning that they lost because they were rolling around in Glastonbury mud or whatever, not to mention whiners on PH who didn't have a single word of input prior to the vote, in some cases, admittedly that was a Godsend.
So here and now, let's for heaven's sake get the hell on with it. The British nation historically has a track record when faced with a challenge of saying "Oh ****, right let's sort this" and actually getting it done.
So let's put all the twaddle and hot air spouted to one side, and just do our jobs, your jobs for the good of yourselves, your neighbours and the world generally in an adult fashion.
Those who have come out with the sentiments such as "X did a huge dump on the doorstep, let them clean it up" presumably with the intent to sit back and smugly snipe at every little hitch or uncertainty on the way, which there will be many, grow up or clear off, not helpful you big cry babies.
The path to be taken is clear, it always was, why people don't want to accept this is frankly a mystery. Stop wasting time and energy people.
Getting the strategy right
So here and now, let's for heaven's sake get the hell on with it. The British nation historically has a track record when faced with a challenge of saying "Oh ****, right let's sort this" and actually getting it done.
So let's put all the twaddle and hot air spouted to one side, and just do our jobs, your jobs for the good of yourselves, your neighbours and the world generally in an adult fashion.
Those who have come out with the sentiments such as "X did a huge dump on the doorstep, let them clean it up" presumably with the intent to sit back and smugly snipe at every little hitch or uncertainty on the way, which there will be many, grow up or clear off, not helpful you big cry babies.
The path to be taken is clear, it always was, why people don't want to accept this is frankly a mystery. Stop wasting time and energy people.
Getting the strategy right
FiF said:
Ok we have had one working day and a weekend of prattling about, full of amusing comments like "this is as bad as arguing with cmoose" and various wiseacres quipping humourous and not so edifying barbs, all with a healthy dose of big babies moaning that they lost because they were rolling around in Glastonbury mud or whatever, not to mention whiners on PH who didn't have a single word of input prior to the vote, in some cases, admittedly that was a Godsend.
So here and now, let's for heaven's sake get the hell on with it. The British nation historically has a track record when faced with a challenge of saying "Oh ****, right let's sort this" and actually getting it done.
So let's put all the twaddle and hot air spouted to one side, and just do our jobs, your jobs for the good of yourselves, your neighbours and the world generally in an adult fashion.
Those who have come out with the sentiments such as "X did a huge dump on the doorstep, let them clean it up" presumably with the intent to sit back and smugly snipe at every little hitch or uncertainty on the way, which there will be many, grow up or clear off, not helpful you big cry babies.
The path to be taken is clear, it always was, why people don't want to accept this is frankly a mystery. Stop wasting time and energy people.
Getting the strategy right
I think you're right and anyone with sense realised this was the outcome. Most of the electorate were trusting enough, to vote based on the dream they were sold.So here and now, let's for heaven's sake get the hell on with it. The British nation historically has a track record when faced with a challenge of saying "Oh ****, right let's sort this" and actually getting it done.
So let's put all the twaddle and hot air spouted to one side, and just do our jobs, your jobs for the good of yourselves, your neighbours and the world generally in an adult fashion.
Those who have come out with the sentiments such as "X did a huge dump on the doorstep, let them clean it up" presumably with the intent to sit back and smugly snipe at every little hitch or uncertainty on the way, which there will be many, grow up or clear off, not helpful you big cry babies.
The path to be taken is clear, it always was, why people don't want to accept this is frankly a mystery. Stop wasting time and energy people.
Getting the strategy right
Flexit now mentioned by "Leave" was kept quietly away as was this.
"Secondly, the procedural choices on leaving are then limited by international law. We are not allowed pick 'n' mix options, dipping into different treaties to come up with our own desired mix"
don4l said:
vonuber said:
I posted this on the results thread:
Dear God!vonuber said:
I'm really coming around to the idea that gove et al never thought that leave would win by 4% (the farage it's not settled margin) and thus don't have a clue what to do.
I suspect they thought they could have used a close vote to put pressure on cameron. Now they know the next leader is basically getting a huge poisoned chalice.
I suspect we will go the Norway route to be honest.
I suspect they thought they could have used a close vote to put pressure on cameron. Now they know the next leader is basically getting a huge poisoned chalice.
I suspect we will go the Norway route to be honest.
We will not go down the Norway route.
Tusk, Schulz and Junker are all absolutely crapping themselves.
Their instincts are to threaten the UK to discourage Denmark, France and Ireland from following the glorious UK.
Unfortunatley, for these three idiots, Merkel and Hollande will not stand for trade restrictions on the UK. Why not? I hear you ask. The Germans export a fifth of their car production to us. We take a huge amount of French wine.
Yesterday, the BBC wailed that the FTSE fell by 7%. Actually, by the close, the FTSE100 had lost 3%. It was still 2%, or 115 points, above last Friday.
On the other hand, BMW, Daimler(Mercedes) and Volkswagen all lost 8%. The French stock market also lost 8%. The Spanish market lost 12%.
The EU will want to negotiate with us, not the other way around.
Our opening position should be polite. We will offer them a 1% reduction on car imports (i.e. 9% instead of 10%) if they will apply a rate of zero % to our car exports.
If they don't think that this is fair, then we can demonstrate "freedom of movement" by showing them the way back to Heathrow.
I'm not very political, but if I were Prime Minister, this is how I would play it.
I wouldn't go to Brussels. I would, reluctantly, agree to a short meeting in Downing Street. However, it would be pointless to have a meeting with just one of the presidents, so I would insist that they all came together. I would also allow them the honour of using the door knocker on No 10. I don't care if they stand in line while they knock at the door, or if they stand in a huddle.
The doorman would be under strict instructions not to keep them waiting for more than 10, 20, or maybe 30 seconds. After all, this may appear on television, and it might be rude if they are kept waiting for too long.
I take it that you get my gist.
We are not going the Norway route. We are going the British route.
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