Is Boris sh*tting himself?

[glazbagun]

Good post Derek and I agree completely. We've learned nothing. I was on the fence re:indy ref until I saw the Nationalist supporters rallying against the BBC. Giant rallies of flag wavers demanding the head of a political opponent scare the st out of me much more than a group of ten racists calling for deportation of foreigners.

Re:Brexit, I saw it going thus-
Britain leaves.
EU works in their interest first, ours second.
Economy tanks, things go bad.
Politicians, who never take reponsibility, blame Europe.
Public thus becomes more nationalistic and vote in more antagonistic leaders.
Europeans play off our rise in nationalism and use divisions for their own advancement.
Divided Europe.


We need a PM on the level of William Pitt Jnr right now, but I'd put more money on getting a Mussolini or Hitler.

I'm in my mid 30's but I'm seriously considering whether I want to invest the next ten years in the UK or even Europe if Merkel is brought down. God knows what early 20 2nd gen immigrants must be thinking.

[wst]

She's the best option for it... which is something I'd never expected to say. She is an authoritarian nightmare of a lady. Too busy trying to get involved with peoples' private lives to actually make good on saving taxpayer money without making taxpayers feel sore around the o-ring.

[Tuna]

FredClogs said:

With regard to the car industry we have some precedent for what could happen and that is what happened in the 70s and 80s to the hone grown industry and the trade with Japan.

They put import tariffs on uk and European cars we didn't put import tariffs on theirs.

The result was inevitable.

Yep, we got better cars, cheaper. How is the modern UK car industry going? I figure it's more efficient, produces top quality product and the 'high value' brands have a reputation that takes them round the world.

If we had 'protected' our industry by keeping out those nasty reliable, well built Japanese cars, we'd still be driving round in British Leyland's equivalent of the Trabant.

[Tuna]

wst said:

She's the best option for it... which is something I'd never expected to say. She is an authoritarian nightmare of a lady. Too busy trying to get involved with peoples' private lives to actually make good on saving taxpayer money without making taxpayers feel sore around the o-ring.

No, no she's not. Evil woman, who along with Gove has left a sour taste in the mouths of anyone who's had to deal with them. Compare that with Boris, who after two terms as London mayor still retained a 54% approval rating.

Her only trick has been to keep out of the limelight so people have not been aware of her nature.

I'm not saying this to favour Boris, but May and Gove are absolutely the worst options at the moment.

[Sam All]

Tuna said:

wst said:

She's the best option for it... which is something I'd never expected to say. She is an authoritarian nightmare of a lady. Too busy trying to get involved with peoples' private lives to actually make good on saving taxpayer money without making taxpayers feel sore around the o-ring.

No, no she's not. Evil woman, who along with Gove has left a sour taste in the mouths of anyone who's had to deal with them. Compare that with Boris, who after two terms as London mayor still retained a 54% approval rating.

Her only trick has been to keep out of the limelight so people have not been aware of her nature.

I'm not saying this to favour Boris, but May and Gove are absolutely the worst options at the moment.

None of the above? Needs a caretaker PM - an elder statesman.

[audidoody]

ALawson said:

At least I didn't have to wait to long for the Hitler Bunker parody.

https://youtu.be/-a6HNXtdvVQ

I laughed out loud. Then I realised it wasn't a parody.

ETA: petition Johnson and Gove to include Farage in Brexit talks.

http://tinyurl.com/hu4qnsj

Edited by audidoody on Tuesday 28th June 11:35

[wst]

Tuna said:

No, no she's not. Evil woman, who along with Gove has left a sour taste in the mouths of anyone who's had to deal with them. Compare that with Boris, who after two terms as London mayor still retained a 54% approval rating.

Her only trick has been to keep out of the limelight so people have not been aware of her nature.

I'm not saying this to favour Boris, but May and Gove are absolutely the worst options at the moment.

Oh I wasn't saying anything to favour May, I think she drinks from the same carton as someone else. It's like arguing which limb to cut off with picking between the three...

[KTF]

audidoody said:

ALawson said:

At least I didn't have to wait to long for the Hitler Bunker parody.

https://youtu.be/-a6HNXtdvVQ

I laughed out loud. Then I realised it wasn't a parody.

Hitler bunker parodies never get old

[plasticpig]

Sam All said:

None of the above? Needs a caretaker PM - an elder statesman.

William Hague springs to mind. There is nothing in the constitution that says the PM has to be an MP. Although the last PM who was a lord was in 1902.

[SMB]

boxxob said:

But Ford moved to Turkey and Croatia regardless of our EU membership. Honda, Hyundai and Toyota already had assembly plants there.

my point is that cost decisions drove it, not one of labour skills, history, labour relations, just cost. if there is an export tariff from uk , costs will dictate where industry goes

[Tuna]

SMB said:

boxxob said:

But Ford moved to Turkey and Croatia regardless of our EU membership. Honda, Hyundai and Toyota already had assembly plants there.

my point is that cost decisions drove it, not one of labour skills, history, labour relations, just cost. if there is an export tariff from uk , costs will dictate where industry goes

Surely moving to Turkey and Croatia was about labour costs? In which case being in or out of the EU is irrelevant.

Costs... and exchange rates.

[mph1977]

Dr Jekyll said:

I think you'll find that the brexiters knew all along that the EU would always do what was best for them irrespective of the consequences, it's the remainers that regarded it as some benign entity with our best interests at heart.

With the UK as part of the EU, what is in the interests of the UK is in the interests of the EU

With the UK flouncing , what is in the interest of the EU is the interests of the other 27 nations ...

and for the echo chember which apparently comprises of of so many business experts , after all one doesn;t become an successful and powerfully built director without such expertise, the attitude the EU has displayed should notcome as a surprise - do you disclose your position before you have to ?

[FredClogs]

boxxob said:

FredClogs said:

With regard to the car industry we have some precedent for what could happen and that is what happened in the 70s and 80s to the hone grown industry and the trade with Japan.

They put import tariffs on uk and European cars we didn't put import tariffs on theirs.

The result was inevitable.

I think there was more to it than tariffs: British Leyland, destructive industrial action and militancy, dreadful productivity and quality control. poor management, restrictive practices etc..etc..

Indeed, perhaps, we managed to kill our own industry without the help of the EU.

Our ability to export mass produced cars of any real quality was not entirely down to trade tariffs, I'll accept that, but it does show you how tariffs in conjunction with other factors (rust proofing, quality engineering) can help control and win a market.

[MarshPhantom]

KTF said:

audidoody said:

ALawson said:

At least I didn't have to wait to long for the Hitler Bunker parody.

https://youtu.be/-a6HNXtdvVQ

I laughed out loud. Then I realised it wasn't a parody.

Hitler bunker parodies never get old

[Axionknight]

plasticpig said:

Sam All said:

None of the above? Needs a caretaker PM - an elder statesman.

William Hague springs to mind. There is nothing in the constitution that says the PM has to be an MP. Although the last PM who was a lord was in 1902.

David Davis would be my mark for a caretaker PM. He's a eursceptic and no fool.

[RYH64E]

Tuna said:

SMB said:

boxxob said:

But Ford moved to Turkey and Croatia regardless of our EU membership. Honda, Hyundai and Toyota already had assembly plants there.

my point is that cost decisions drove it, not one of labour skills, history, labour relations, just cost. if there is an export tariff from uk , costs will dictate where industry goes

Surely moving to Turkey and Croatia was about labour costs? In which case being in or out of the EU is irrelevant.

Costs... and exchange rates.

The point really is that car manufacturers can and do move production, regardless of what may appear to be enormous past investment in their current operations. Peugeot closed their Ryton plant, Ford have closed most of their Dagenham plant and all of their Southampton plant, if Honda/Nissan/Toyota/JLR etc believe that manufacturing in the UK is disadvantageous due to market restrictions or tariffs then they will move their business back into the EU, maybe not immediately and not completely, but there will be a steady erosion of our manufacturing base with the consequent effect upon jobs and tax revenue.

[glazbagun]

Hunt considering it. Obviously a great unifier.

http://news.sky.com/story/1718563/jeremy-hunt-cons...

[Sam All]

Axionknight said:

plasticpig said:

Sam All said:

None of the above? Needs a caretaker PM - an elder statesman.

William Hague springs to mind. There is nothing in the constitution that says the PM has to be an MP. Although the last PM who was a lord was in 1902.

David Davis would be my mark for a caretaker PM. He's a eursceptic and no fool.

Top choice, for the country

[Derek Smith]

Tuna said:

No, no she's not. Evil woman, who along with Gove has left a sour taste in the mouths of anyone who's had to deal with them. Compare that with Boris, who after two terms as London mayor still retained a 54% approval rating.

Her only trick has been to keep out of the limelight so people have not been aware of her nature.

I'm not saying this to favour Boris, but May and Gove are absolutely the worst options at the moment.

Johnson's time in London might well come back to haunt him. There are some 'odd' deals that have not been fully explained. I've yet to find him making any decision that wasn't based on what is best for him. Regardless of approval ratings, he'd be a disaster for the tory party. May for all her manifest faults - and there are quite a few - she will give a statesman like impression.

[SMB]

Tuna said:

SMB said:

boxxob said:

But Ford moved to Turkey and Croatia regardless of our EU membership. Honda, Hyundai and Toyota already had assembly plants there.

my point is that cost decisions drove it, not one of labour skills, history, labour relations, just cost. if there is an export tariff from uk , costs will dictate where industry goes

Surely moving to Turkey and Croatia was about labour costs? In which case being in or out of the EU is irrelevant.

Costs... and exchange rates.

Tuna, On the last page you said this ' Contrary to popular opinion, companies can't just up sticks every six months and move where the exchange rate is better. Labour relations, skilled workforces and just financial momentum all play a part.'

I did indeed reference Ford as a decision based on costs to demonstrate that they do up sticks and move based on cost alone. Costs include import tariffs or we as UK compete at labour rates comparable to Croatia and Turkey with the impact that has on our standard of living. A prospective 10% tarif on every car sold into the EU is significant for a manufacturer. So costs do matter and being in the single market( and the costs to UK as either a full or partial member) is critical.