Is Boris sh*tting himself?

[JagLover]

turbobloke said:

Derek Smith said:

It seems senior tories want Johnson as PM.

And PH reckoned labour had pressed the self destruct button!

Labour? They had already done so with Corbyn and it got worse from that point forward.

Boris will be more than OK if elected as Party leader and PM.

I think he would be fine as PM as well.

Might be more useful as a decoy though. All the usual suspects are frothing at the mouth at the prospect of him becoming PM. Why not go for a "moderate" alternative, May say, who is actually more right wing than lightening rod Boris.

[Alex]

Tuna, that would be my choice. No UK tariffs, regardless of what the EU decide to do.

[jjlynn27]

Tuna said:

One position to take would be:

We choose to impose no tariffs on goods imported to the UK. That benefits us - stuff is cheaper. The reason we import is because someone somewhere else in the world can make something cheaper than we can make it ourselves.

On stuff we export, we show the tariffs that the EU chooses to impose as an 'effective tax rate'. Anyone exporting to the EU from the UK must show that as a line item on the bill. So anyone buying UK goods in the EU can see that the higher price they pay is due to their own government's tariffs.

Now, companies can move abroad if they choose, but it doesn't make goods more expensive for us (we impose no tariffs) and if they can manufacture cheaper elsewhere it benefits us further (cheaper stuff). Yes, I know they could just all move abroad, but it turns out that they don't - for lots of reasons - and an economically active country is an attractive place to run a business.

The end result is we look like global businessmen and the EU looks like idiots for imposing tariffs. How well will it go down in Europe if it's clear that the EU is making it more expensive to buy things? "Ah yes, but we are punishing the UK, by making it cost more to buy their Whiskey!"

It doesn't benefit us at all to engage in a tariff war. We want to make stuff cheaper, and we want to make doing business within the UK attractive. The EU can punish us, but it has no control over how we trade with the rest of the world, so it's actually a minority player in our overall economy. As a net importer, the tariffs we impose are the larger component of the 'cost', and we control those (and can choose to eliminate them).

I doubt that consumer cares why something is more expensive. Producer/provider might if those changes are affecting their competitiveness.

[Sam All]

boxxob said:

I don't know why people continue to underestimate Boris. At a GE, as things stand, he (and the party he may lead) only has to be a lesser attractive proposition than Labour have become. The lampooning and caricaturing only seem to benefit him and demonstrate the weakness in the criticism. If he was to appear along side EU technocrats, he's going to make them look only vaguely human and somewhat sinister. I will invite ridicule for this, but I think Boris has the potential to become one of the most popular and well-regarded British politicians ever by the people of Europe and most of the rest of the world. This time next year, they may all want a Boris of their own!!!

I see that, and why I'd like him him to be foreign minister before he steps into No 10. A deal with May for her to be caretaker PM?

[jjlynn27]

Sam All said:

boxxob said:

I don't know why people continue to underestimate Boris. At a GE, as things stand, he (and the party he may lead) only has to be a lesser attractive proposition than Labour have become. The lampooning and caricaturing only seem to benefit him and demonstrate the weakness in the criticism. If he was to appear along side EU technocrats, he's going to make them look only vaguely human and somewhat sinister. I will invite ridicule for this, but I think Boris has the potential to become one of the most popular and well-regarded British politicians ever by the people of Europe and most of the rest of the world. This time next year, they may all want a Boris of their own!!!

I see that, and why I'd like him him to be foreign minister before he steps into No 10. A deal with May for her to be caretaker PM?

What's in it for May?

[don4l]

vonuber said:

don4l said:

You'd like me to bugger off back to Ireland?

Are there any other foreigners that you would like to send home?

I must say that I enjoyed your post. I don't have an Irish passport. Like you, I have a European Union passport (for the moment).

No i said you could if you wanted to - for some reason I thought you were an Irish citizen. Clearly I was mistaken.

You certainly know how to make a foreigner feel welcome.

Top marks!

[Mrr T]

Tuna said:

One position to take would be:

We choose to impose no tariffs on goods imported to the UK. That benefits us - stuff is cheaper. The reason we import is because someone somewhere else in the world can make something cheaper than we can make it ourselves.

On stuff we export, we show the tariffs that the EU chooses to impose as an 'effective tax rate'. Anyone exporting to the EU from the UK must show that as a line item on the bill. So anyone buying UK goods in the EU can see that the higher price they pay is due to their own government's tariffs.

Now, companies can move abroad if they choose, but it doesn't make goods more expensive for us (we impose no tariffs) and if they can manufacture cheaper elsewhere it benefits us further (cheaper stuff). Yes, I know they could just all move abroad, but it turns out that they don't - for lots of reasons - and an economically active country is an attractive place to run a business.

The end result is we look like global businessmen and the EU looks like idiots for imposing tariffs. How well will it go down in Europe if it's clear that the EU is making it more expensive to buy things? "Ah yes, but we are punishing the UK, by making it cost more to buy their Whiskey!"

It doesn't benefit us at all to engage in a tariff war. We want to make stuff cheaper, and we want to make doing business within the UK attractive. The EU can punish us, but it has no control over how we trade with the rest of the world, so it's actually a minority player in our overall economy. As a net importer, the tariffs we impose are the larger component of the 'cost', and we control those (and can choose to eliminate them).

EU financial services passporting?

[lostkiwi]

don4l said:

vonuber said:

don4l said:

You'd like me to bugger off back to Ireland?

Are there any other foreigners that you would like to send home?

I must say that I enjoyed your post. I don't have an Irish passport. Like you, I have a European Union passport (for the moment).

No i said you could if you wanted to - for some reason I thought you were an Irish citizen. Clearly I was mistaken.

You certainly know how to make a foreigner feel welcome.

Top marks!

Now you know how I feel when I've had similar comments when folk don't accept I have a right to an opinion.

[Sam All]

jjlynn27 said:

Sam All said:

boxxob said:

I don't know why people continue to underestimate Boris. At a GE, as things stand, he (and the party he may lead) only has to be a lesser attractive proposition than Labour have become. The lampooning and caricaturing only seem to benefit him and demonstrate the weakness in the criticism. If he was to appear along side EU technocrats, he's going to make them look only vaguely human and somewhat sinister. I will invite ridicule for this, but I think Boris has the potential to become one of the most popular and well-regarded British politicians ever by the people of Europe and most of the rest of the world. This time next year, they may all want a Boris of their own!!!

I see that, and why I'd like him him to be foreign minister before he steps into No 10. A deal with May for her to be caretaker PM?

What's in it for May?

That's the difficult bit. Service to the Conservative party, country & good for her CV and exit front line politics on a high note? Of course Boris could pip her to be leader anyway, so there is that too.

[vonuber]

don4l said:

You certainly know how to make a foreigner feel welcome.
Top marks!

I do, yes, but we are discussing you.

[Tuna]

jjlynn27 said:

I doubt that consumer cares why something is more expensive. Producer/provider might if those changes are affecting their competitiveness.

The point is that the people who are setting the tariffs have two goals (make your own minds up as to their priorities)

1) Improve the economy of their trade zone
2) Retain control by maintaining public approval

A visible EU 'tariff tax' on imports weakens their economy and makes them looks anti-business. It fails both tests.

It's true that businesses exporting from the EU may want the protection of tariffs, but that's an abstract need of individual businesses. We would be their friends by offering no penalty on selling to the UK.

[herewego]

sanf said:

The above isn't statements, more questions, I'm a remain voter, feeling a wee bit anxious, but also recognise if we are going it alone then we need to dive in head first, be smarter, better and more competitive in the world. Trading on our democratic values and the UK brand.

Talking about the UK brand I'm reminded that last years 50 billion UK/EU deficit was caused by UK residents not buying the UK brand, so why should anyone else. Quite apart for highish tech like cars and washing machines I heard a builder yesterday complain that the price of bricks had gone up since the drop in value of the pound because apparently we don't even buy our own bricks.

[jjlynn27]

Sam All said:

jjlynn27 said:

Sam All said:

boxxob said:

I don't know why people continue to underestimate Boris. At a GE, as things stand, he (and the party he may lead) only has to be a lesser attractive proposition than Labour have become. The lampooning and caricaturing only seem to benefit him and demonstrate the weakness in the criticism. If he was to appear along side EU technocrats, he's going to make them look only vaguely human and somewhat sinister. I will invite ridicule for this, but I think Boris has the potential to become one of the most popular and well-regarded British politicians ever by the people of Europe and most of the rest of the world. This time next year, they may all want a Boris of their own!!!

I see that, and why I'd like him him to be foreign minister before he steps into No 10. A deal with May for her to be caretaker PM?

What's in it for May?

That's the difficult bit. Service to the Conservative party, country & good for her CV and exit front line politics on a high note? Of course Boris could pip her to be leader anyway, so there is that too.

Good for her CV? Service to the Conservative party? By doing something that will end her career in tracks? I doubt that she's that stupid. (I do think she's very bright even if I don't share some of her opinions).

[Tuna]

Mrr T said:

EU financial services passporting?

It keeps being raised. But it would cause utter chaos to take passporting away from the UK. If the EU attempt to force financial services to relocate, global businesses would be thrown into the sort of chaos that makes the current situation look like a holiday. A lot of global businesses would be pretty upset by that and I imagine will be lobbying the EU not to blow the lifeboats out of the water.

[RYH64E]

Tuna said:

It's true that businesses exporting from the EU may want the protection of tariffs, but that's an abstract need of individual businesses. We would be their friends by offering no penalty on selling to the UK.

Tariffs protect intra-EU trade by putting low cost manufacturers from Asia at a disadvantage compared to local manufacturers, it isn't about protecting EU based exporters.

We could be China's friend by giving them free access to the UK markets, but how many consumers would support a 'Buy British' campaign when Chinese equivalents are available at a fraction of the price? We import too much already imo, making it easier for other countries to sell to us won't help our balance of payments. The EU is largely protectionist and favours EU based manufacturers, we've benefitted from that whilst we've been part of the EU but there's no reason to think that we will continue to do so once we've left.

[RYH64E]

Tuna said:

Mrr T said:

EU financial services passporting?

It keeps being raised. But it would cause utter chaos to take passporting away from the UK. If the EU attempt to force financial services to relocate, global businesses would be thrown into the sort of chaos that makes the current situation look like a holiday. A lot of global businesses would be pretty upset by that and I imagine will be lobbying the EU not to blow the lifeboats out of the water.

Nonsense, the EU will be saying 'Come to Frankfurt/Paris/Dublin, you'll be very welcome, what can we do to help you relocate?'.

[kurt535]

Tuna said:

Mrr T said:

EU financial services passporting?

It keeps being raised. But it would cause utter chaos to take passporting away from the UK. If the EU attempt to force financial services to relocate, global businesses would be thrown into the sort of chaos that makes the current situation look like a holiday. A lot of global businesses would be pretty upset by that and I imagine will be lobbying the EU not to blow the lifeboats out of the water.

treasuries have already pulled the pin preparing to leave the uk. the act of moving takes time and as most banks will have direct lines to their govt its clear the eu had an action plan for england saying bye bye.

[Tuna]

RYH64E said:

Nonsense, the EU will be saying 'Come to Frankfurt/Paris/Dublin, you'll be very welcome, what can we do to help you relocate?'.

There's a difference between welcoming people to relocate - every nation does that - and ending financial services passporting. The first is healthy competition, the second would be the most disastrous example of 'pulling up the drawbridge' in modern times. More so than the UK deciding to renegotiate trading terms.

[tim0409]

I suppose this was inevitable (Hitler spoof)....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-a6HNXtdvVQ

[kurt535]

Tuna said:

RYH64E said:

Nonsense, the EU will be saying 'Come to Frankfurt/Paris/Dublin, you'll be very welcome, what can we do to help you relocate?'.

There's a difference between welcoming people to relocate - every nation does that - and ending financial services passporting. The first is healthy competition, the second would be the most disastrous example of 'pulling up the drawbridge' in modern times. More so than the UK deciding to renegotiate trading terms.

Tuna, my pal's partner works in Soc Gen treasuries. Unless someone here can challenge me with other news, they have a plan they are initiating for returning to the EU. He is gutted!