Is Boris sh*tting himself?

[Terminator X]

vonuber said:

s1962a said:

Interesting.

The Leave campaign went quiet about Norway because it has free movement of labour as part of it's negotiation with the EU. That'll go down well here!

It makes sense though. We remain part of the free trade area, keep passporting rights etc.
We will have to comply with EU regs to sell stuff to them anyway.

It's already being hinted at - so basically nothing will change. How droll.

52% of voters not happy with EU and you think nothing will change. Suicide at next election.

TX.

[s2art]

gibbon said:

s3fella said:

I disagree. I think the best thing all round now is for no one from British Gov to say anything on the issue for the next few weeks. Let the EU piffle mongers vent their spleens that someone has made a stand and decided to not "invest" the £10BN ad infinitum, and their gravy train may come under scrutiny once and for all, and get on with quietly outing things in place for the new leadership and negotiating team.

Let the media go round sticking microphones in the faces of people who are unhappy about it all, and let UK Gov maintain a dignified silence for a few weeks.

Jesus, you really dont understand a thing do you. Little Britain at its best, the odd thing is, i suspect its people like you that will suffer the most, you will have less chance of making the relevant changes to evolve in this new world we are likely creating for ourselves. You will continue to fail to adapt and prosper and simply look for someone else to blame rather looking within.

NO. He is right. It needs time for Merkel to bring the rest into line. Which is exactly the message she is sending to us and the other leaders. Read what she said.

[saaby93]

Einion Yrth said:

saaby93 said:

Einion Yrth said:

I don't think he's up to it, and I never have.

Don't care for any of the other major contenders either to be honest, oh well...

May

God's teeth no, this is the woman who wants all of your internet traffic watched, she makes Genghis Khan look like a libertarian. No, just no.

Surely thats what you were looking for - someone who takes no prisoners
you said the rest of them werent up to it

[Strocky]

Troubleatmill said:

We are in a very strong negotiating position.

We don't need to set our sites on Norway etc

We get our own deal.


Have some cahonas people.


Edited for typo.

Edited by Troubleatmill on Saturday 25th June 19:52

Oh dear

[MisterJD]

Halb said:

It was higher?

How did the sterling thing affect it?

FTSE 100 rallied because many of the biggest companies with foreign earnings get a boost from the weaker pound. So yes, the pound's weakness gave a boost to some stocks. The FTSE 250 index with a greater proportion of domestic companies in its constituents was down 7%.

[Einion Yrth]

saaby93 said:

Einion Yrth said:

saaby93 said:

Einion Yrth said:

I don't think he's up to it, and I never have.

Don't care for any of the other major contenders either to be honest, oh well...

May

God's teeth no, this is the woman who wants all of your internet traffic watched, she makes Genghis Khan look like a libertarian. No, just no.

Surely thats what you were looking for - someone who takes no prisoners
you said the rest of them werent up to it

That may be what some were seeking, at the moment we could still be described as a pluralist democracy, but for myself, no Ms. T.May would not be my choice of leader.

[vonuber]

Terminator X said:

52% of voters not happy with EU and you think nothing will change. Suicide at next election.

TX.

Which I think is why the Tory conference will be interesting.

[saaby93]

Einion Yrth said:

That may be what some were seeking, at the moment we could still be described as a pluralist democracy, but for myself, no Ms. T.May would not be my choice of leader.

For this phase youre not looking for a popularist
Youre looking for someone who can knuckle down and get on with the job
Shes only had a light foot in the remain camp too so should be able to take both sides forward.
Both the others wont have the support of the 48%

[glazbagun]

s3fella said:

I disagree. I think the best thing all round now is for no one from British Gov to say anything on the issue for the next few weeks. Let the EU piffle mongers vent their spleens that someone has made a stand and decided to not "invest" the £10BN ad infinitum, and their gravy train may come under scrutiny once and for all, and get on with quietly outing things in place for the new leadership and negotiating team.

Let the media go round sticking microphones in the faces of people who are unhappy about it all, and let UK Gov maintain a dignified silence for a few weeks.

If that's a masterplan than they've aced it. Of course it looks a lot like Cameron leaving a sinking ship and leaving us with a headless government for three months during the biggest crisis since... Suez? The Falklands? The crash of 07/8?

If there was ever a plan for brexit, now might be a good time to see it. I suspect they're writing it furiously this weekend.

[FredClogs]

Boris, unlike most senior people in politics and business, is not a psychopath. As such he has up to now relied on his genuine affability to charm his way into the nations pants. Which is fine, I've never liked the fella because I don't like his politics, but I'll happily admit he's human, which is more than can be said for many at the top.

Has he st himself? Errrr.. Yes of course, wouldn't you?

[eharding]

glazbagun said:

If there was ever a plan for brexit, now might be a good time to see it. I suspect they're writing it furiously this weekend.

Using a biro, obviously. We've all seen what happens when you use a pencil!

[OzzyR1]

FredClogs said:

Boris, unlike most senior people in politics and business, is not a psychopath. As such he has up to now relied on his genuine affability to charm his way into the nations pants. Which is fine, I've never liked the fella because I don't like his politics, but I'll happily admit he's human, which is more than can be said for many at the top.

Has he st himself? Errrr.. Yes of course, wouldn't you?

I've met Boris several times and had chance to speak to him for a while on a few of those occasions.

The "blundering buffoon" persona is something I've never seen. He is sharp, clever and one of the most calculating people I've ever met.

I have no doubt that if he gets the chance to become PM then we will see that side of him. Very hard-line, right-wing Tory and I imagine woe betide anyone who gets in his way.

[s2art]

OzzyR1 said:

I've met Boris several times and had chance to speak to him for a while on a few of those occasions.

The "blundering buffoon" persona is something I've never seen. He is sharp, clever and one of the most calculating people I've ever met.

I have no doubt that if he gets the chance to become PM then we will see that side of him. Very hard-line, right-wing Tory and I imagine woe betide anyone who gets in his way.

He doesnt seem to be that right wing. A big supporter of the living wage for starters.

[mph1977]

eatcustard said:

We will not have a Norway style deal, but a UK one and immigration will be controlled, not stopped but controlled or they will be booted out at the next GE.

cake and eat it dreamworld fantasy ...

all 4 fundamental freedoms or no freedoms and a trade deal with tarriffs and so forth, plus compliance with EU standards required for approval to sell products in the EU , very limited if any services permitted to be sold cross border ...

[OzzyR1]

s2art said:

OzzyR1 said:

I've met Boris several times and had chance to speak to him for a while on a few of those occasions.

The "blundering buffoon" persona is something I've never seen. He is sharp, clever and one of the most calculating people I've ever met.

I have no doubt that if he gets the chance to become PM then we will see that side of him. Very hard-line, right-wing Tory and I imagine woe betide anyone who gets in his way.

He doesnt seem to be that right wing. A big supporter of the living wage for starters.

I imagine that he knows what he has to say to win votes.

My comments were pure conjecture based on my own experience - I could be (and probably am) wildly inaccurate.

[Granfondo]

///ajd said:

That post above is worth pasting

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

[mph1977]

Terminator X said:

52% of voters not happy with EU and you think nothing will change. Suicide at next election.

TX.

the question is, as shown by the numbers showing 'wker's remorse' - , were they actually told the truth by Leave ? remain told the truth with what they did say pointing to uncertainty and the likelihood of a ' be careful what you wish for' outcome ... but the 'Project fear' slurs stopped them from pointing out the actual depth of what Leave would mean ...

[Tuna]

///ajd said:

That post above is worth pasting

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Guardian reader fantasy. It's only one step short of "and then we all wake up and it never happened"

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday it's because he's probably not slept in three days. Or it could be because he's smart enough not to gloat and is more graceful in victory than some of those in defeat.

The bottom line is that - yes, right now there are no certainties. This is the start of negotiation. The nations of Europe haven't had time to digest the news, never mind even begin to respond. There are at least two years of hard work ahead of us, and that's ignoring the fact that we have to get a consensus on what is actually important to the UK, what we want out of our new self-determination.

If anyone thinks that being PM is anything other than a thankless task, look how we regard every last prime minister in the last 25 years. No glory there.

[///ajd]

How will the tory leadership race actually pan out?

I understand the tory MPs have to narrow it down to 2 candidates.

There are 185 remain tory MPs, and 138 brexit ones.

What is to stop the majority of remain MPs blocking any brexit candidates forward and picking 2 remain candidates?

Does the referendum result force a brexit PM on the country?

[s3fella]

Tuna said:

The bottom line is that - yes, right now there are no certainties. This is the start of negotiation. The nations of Europe haven't had time to digest the news, never mind even begin to respond. There are at least two years of hard work ahead of us, and that's ignoring the fact that we have to get a consensus on what is actually important to the UK, what we want out of our new self-determination.

Someone gets it. We are 2 days in and the doom mongers are citing a days trading loss on the £ and FTSE!
But we have had far worse economic events in our recent history and we are all still here. Maybe the EU membership helped us, maybe it didn't, but we are still in the EU! This is the beginning of something, not the end of something....not yet, anyway.

Before you all get het up by what you read in the press, who are spinning this as a disaster after a flipping day (!), do a little research get some perspective. FWIW I think there will be further downward trends in the value of the £ and that is no bad thing. I also would not be surprised if we get an interest rate cut or even 0% by the B of E.
The market will react to every little thing that is said or done over the next few weeks, hence why Govt should keep it moot IMHO. But once the dust settles, it will become far more stable and then we will have a better idea of how it may pan out over the next few years.
There was a Remainer woman on Sky tonight doing the papers who referred to us as "some little country".... Well if you believe the massive ramifications of what she would have us believe is going on and will go on, that flies very much in the face of us being some mere "little country". The truth is we are a significant global player and a huge European player. These are facts and are irrefutable. And those feeling genuinely pessimistic about our future, (rather than the likes of the BBC just st stirring as they backed the wrong horse), would do well to remember that as it may make the future look a little brighter.