Is Boris sh*tting himself?

[V8RX7]

BigMon said:

Boris dropping out of the leadership race and, hopefully, never being PM in my lifetime is about the only positive of the last week for me.

And for those who parrot the 'he's popular' line, so is X-Factor.

Simon Cowell for PM !









Actually when you look at the current options it's not a bad idea - except they couldn't afford him.

[BigMon]

If it wasn't so worrying it would be laughable.

Voting for Brexit with, it appears, no clear plan what to do after. Government and main opposition parties in total disarray.

It feels as though we're living in a Tom Sharpe novel.

[PositronicRay]

WestyCarl said:

Blimey 30+ pages of pure speculation. Maybe, just maybe, this happened;

- Boris actually believes we'd be better of out of Europe with all it's bureaucracy (he view is very London Centric)

- In the last few days his team realised he didn't have enough support from MP's to win so decided to bow out and fight another day rather than loose

Boris isn't a believer in anything much, just an opportunist. Prior to the referendum he stated that we should get an "out vote" then use it as a re-negotiation tool.

If he was still Mayor of London do really see him on the Brexit team.

[don4l]

vonuber said:

Why do I get the feeling this whole referendum had fk all to do with the EU and everything to do with internal tory politics.

Because you don't want to accept that we are leaving the EU.


Let me offer you some consolation. The stock market seems to be on the up again.

Does that cheer you up? Or was I correct when I said that you wanted to see harm come to the UK?

The French and Spanish stock markets seem to be falling again.

This is good news, because it will help Tusk and Junker to understand that they will negotiate a trade deal with the UK on our terms. Two days ago, that pair of idiots thought that they had the upper hand. They still haven't seen the light. Another 10% drop in European stock markets might help them to understand that they are in no position to dictate terms.

[don4l]

Kermit power said:

There's nothing fishy going on at all. Boris just massively miscalculated. A Leave vote was his worst nightmare come true, as was made very evident by his deafening silence from the moment the result was announced. Hopefully, as the job losses and bad headlines pile up, people will remember this. They'll remember that it was all part of a plan for the promotion of Boris, and will reward him accordingly at the ballot box.

I don't understand how anyone can suggest that Boris actually wanted to lose.

How could this have helped his career?

[Kermit power]

turbobloke said:

Possibly agree, possibly disagree

He didn't eff the country over by joining Leave.

He may not have fked the country over by joining Leave, but he certainly fked it over by giving the impression that we could leave the EU and take complete control of immigration, when he knew full well that if he were to take the reins, he'd be pushing for continued access to the Single Market with the free movement of people that that access requires.

Do you honestly believe that if Boris had stood up in the middle of the campaign and said "yes, we'll leave the EU, but realistically we'll still have free movement of people" we would've had the same result?

Lots of people voted Leave because they felt they saw benefits worth having despite the large risks. Johnson always knew that one of those benefits - and probably the most important one to many Leave voters - was highly unlikely to happen, but he allowed those voters to believe it would, all in pursuit of WGFB (what's good for Boris).

I feel betrayed by him just as a citizen of the UK. If I'd actually voted Leave, I'd want his head on a stake on Tower Bridge (yes, I know, it used to be London Bridge, but the modern London bridge is crap and boring in comparison!) next to Daniel Hannan and everyone else who could've clarified things for voters and chose to do so in the day or two after the referendum result.

[Jonesy23]

All the stories coming out are that Boris was basically dumped for being utterly disorganised and for making lots of promises to people that overlapped like offering the same role to 3 people.

He might be good at the broad sweep or on a personal basis but when asked to actually organise and run something i.e be the PM he wasn't up to it.

Better to know now & get someone else than to continue to support him then get caught out after the fact when he didn't improve.

He'd probably be fine in a supporting role but running the show isn't for him.

[don4l]

kurt535 said:

don4l said:

Derek Smith said:

So Johnson was sh*tting himself all the time.

Well I misjudged the man. I had no idea he lacked bottle.

He's been promised some role from the contenders, May and Gove. The gods help us all if it is an important one.

Gove has got baking of a lot of MPs but up against May for the final vote, which looks likely, I would not rate his chances.

Johnson, the bloke who took some days to make up his mind which would give him more opportunity, stay or leave campaigning, now says he was a passionate leaver all along. Yeah, right.

I knew he was two faced, but three?

Derek,

You appear to becoming a bit emotional.

A few months ago Boris decided that Leave would win. He has wanted to be PM all his life, so he decided to pretend to be passionate about leaving the EU.

To be fair, he did a fantastic job. The way he allowed Gisela Stuart and Andrea Ledsman to handle the nasty personal attacks that Ms Eagle, Sturgeon and the other hectoring fishwife hurled towards him was a great demonstration of true leadership.

In case you don't remember, each time they delivered a personal insult, Dimbleby offered him the chance to defend himself. Each time he held his hand out to one of his deputies, indicating that they should speak. They did not let him down. That was a demonstration of true leadership.

Boris isn't a coward. He spotted an opportunity, and he went for it.

I'm not sure why Gove stuck the knife in. My feeling is that Gove thinks that Boris is not really committed to Brexit. This means that he believes that Boris cannot negotiate the best exit deal for Britain.

You may have seen that I would tell Junker and Tusk to sod off.

You might think that I am joking. I am not. I may enjoy "winding up lefties", but I also know that Britain really does have the upper hand in these discussions.

Europe really has an awful lot more to lose than we do. These negotiations are going to be a game of poker. The best bluffer will win.

There is absolutely no need to accept freedom of movement. We are full. Our roads are jammed. We have hosepipe bans if it doesn't rain for ten days. I recently changed doctor's surgery because I couldn't get an appointment at my old surgery for two weeks.

stop using Britain - out of date term. little england to you. you probably couldn't get an appointment for two weeks because you wanted an after work one, along with everyone else.

Why do you lot have to keep making stuff up? You really are shameless.

When I wrote that I couldn't get an appointment for two weeks, I was telling the truth.

My workplace is less than 10 minutes from the old surgery, and it isn't a problem nipping out during the day.

[turbobloke]

Kermit power said:

turbobloke said:

Possibly agree, possibly disagree

He didn't eff the country over by joining Leave.

He may not have fked the country over by joining Leave, but he certainly fked it over by giving the impression that we could leave the EU and take complete control of immigration, when he knew full well that if he were to take the reins, he'd be pushing for continued access to the Single Market with the free movement of people that that access requires..

The past:

"Boris Johnson has declared that he is probably the only politician in Britain willing to “stand up and say” that they are pro-immigration."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration...

The present, after Boris legged it:

"With Boris gone, the next Tory PM will be dangerously tough on immigration...Johnson was forced to tell journalists at his campaign launch that he was pulling out. It seems the issue that scuppered him was immigration...Johnson has never been a convincing border patrol guard. As the country digested Brexit, he wrote in The Telegraph that: 'It is said that those who voted Leave were mainly driven by anxieties about immigration. I do not believe that is so.' "

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016...

What May, or Gove, or whoever, come away with from negotiations is an unknown, and certainly not circumscribed by initial tough talking from the EU side, aka posturing. The art of compromise is not dead; the UK is not a bit-part player.

[Zod]

Kermit power said:

vonuber said:

How do you close the funding gap without cuts? how do you honour Cornwall's £60million/year?
Are we looking at raising tax rates?

The people of Cornwall voted to leave, so they obviously felt they didn't need to £60m. fk 'em. Time for them to live with the consequences of their actions.

That's how I feel too. Same goes for Wales, but it won't happen. They'll get their money and the rest of us will have to pay for it.

[RizzoTheRat]

don4l said:

There is absolutely no need to accept freedom of movement. We are full. Our roads are jammed. We have hosepipe bans if it doesn't rain for ten days. I recently changed doctor's surgery because I couldn't get an appointment at my old surgery for two weeks.

You don't think that maybe investing in infrastructure such as public transport, utilities and the NHS might have a slight bigger impact on those things than reducing the population by about 1.5%?

[Zod]

RizzoTheRat said:

don4l said:

There is absolutely no need to accept freedom of movement. We are full. Our roads are jammed. We have hosepipe bans if it doesn't rain for ten days. I recently changed doctor's surgery because I couldn't get an appointment at my old surgery for two weeks.

You don't think that maybe investing in infrastructure such as public transport, utilities and the NHS might have a slight bigger impact on those things than reducing the population by about 1.5%?

Nonsense, it's all about the immigrants. As Farage said, when you get stuck in traffic, it's because of all the immigrants on the road around you. When I was a kid, we never had traffic jams.

[wc98]

///ajd said:

The deal won't be as good though as we have now.

Brexiteers are still in denial about that.

I suspect the tory recovery plan is to look for the best outcome possible with EU pre Art 50, then compare it to what we have, and say "do you know what?" ...... it will likely to Norway with nil or min extra migration control, £350m costs at 85%, no influence and single market access may have clouds over e.g. passporting.

And the nation will say "what the fook would we want that for?"

They can't do that yet though, too soon.

the deal the uk will get will be specific to our situation. not the situation of norway, switzerland or anyone else. is this so hard to understand ?

[p1stonhead]

Zod said:

Kermit power said:

vonuber said:

How do you close the funding gap without cuts? how do you honour Cornwall's £60million/year?
Are we looking at raising tax rates?

The people of Cornwall voted to leave, so they obviously felt they didn't need to £60m. fk 'em. Time for them to live with the consequences of their actions.

That's how I feel too. Same goes for Wales, but it won't happen. They'll get their money and the rest of us will have to pay for it.

The fking shouldnt get a penny. Like turkeys voting for christmas.

[Kermit power]

don4l said:

kurt535 said:

don4l said:

Derek Smith said:

So Johnson was sh*tting himself all the time.

Well I misjudged the man. I had no idea he lacked bottle.

He's been promised some role from the contenders, May and Gove. The gods help us all if it is an important one.

Gove has got baking of a lot of MPs but up against May for the final vote, which looks likely, I would not rate his chances.

Johnson, the bloke who took some days to make up his mind which would give him more opportunity, stay or leave campaigning, now says he was a passionate leaver all along. Yeah, right.

I knew he was two faced, but three?

Derek,

You appear to becoming a bit emotional.

A few months ago Boris decided that Leave would win. He has wanted to be PM all his life, so he decided to pretend to be passionate about leaving the EU.

To be fair, he did a fantastic job. The way he allowed Gisela Stuart and Andrea Ledsman to handle the nasty personal attacks that Ms Eagle, Sturgeon and the other hectoring fishwife hurled towards him was a great demonstration of true leadership.

In case you don't remember, each time they delivered a personal insult, Dimbleby offered him the chance to defend himself. Each time he held his hand out to one of his deputies, indicating that they should speak. They did not let him down. That was a demonstration of true leadership.

Boris isn't a coward. He spotted an opportunity, and he went for it.

I'm not sure why Gove stuck the knife in. My feeling is that Gove thinks that Boris is not really committed to Brexit. This means that he believes that Boris cannot negotiate the best exit deal for Britain.

You may have seen that I would tell Junker and Tusk to sod off.

You might think that I am joking. I am not. I may enjoy "winding up lefties", but I also know that Britain really does have the upper hand in these discussions.

Europe really has an awful lot more to lose than we do. These negotiations are going to be a game of poker. The best bluffer will win.

There is absolutely no need to accept freedom of movement. We are full. Our roads are jammed. We have hosepipe bans if it doesn't rain for ten days. I recently changed doctor's surgery because I couldn't get an appointment at my old surgery for two weeks.

stop using Britain - out of date term. little england to you. you probably couldn't get an appointment for two weeks because you wanted an after work one, along with everyone else.

Why do you lot have to keep making stuff up? You really are shameless.

When I wrote that I couldn't get an appointment for two weeks, I was telling the truth.

My workplace is less than 10 minutes from the old surgery, and it isn't a problem nipping out during the day.

If you know that Britain really does have the upper hand in the negotiations, how come you haven't addressed the fact that we currently export over 3 times as much to the EU per capita as they export to us?

I'm sure you can explain exactly how having three times as much to lose as them for every man, woman and child in the country means that we've got the upper hand. I know these threads have been growing very quickly, so you may not have seen the question. I wouldn't like you to miss the opportunity to tell us why it puts us in such a strong position though, so here's another chance!

[wc98]

p1stonhead said:

Zod said:

Kermit power said:

vonuber said:

How do you close the funding gap without cuts? how do you honour Cornwall's £60million/year?
Are we looking at raising tax rates?

The people of Cornwall voted to leave, so they obviously felt they didn't need to £60m. fk 'em. Time for them to live with the consequences of their actions.

That's how I feel too. Same goes for Wales, but it won't happen. They'll get their money and the rest of us will have to pay for it.

The fking shouldnt get a penny. Like turkeys voting for christmas.

you do all realise we were actually paying that money to cornwall and wales anyway, with a cut for the eu added on ?

[MDMA .]

WestyCarl said:

Blimey 30+ pages of pure speculation. Maybe, just maybe, this happened;

- Boris actually believes we'd be better of out of Europe with all it's bureaucracy (he view is very London Centric)

- In the last few days his team realised he didn't have enough support from MP's to win so decided to bow out and fight another day rather than loose

he has done a deal with the devil ( Theresa ) to back her and then stand for the job in 2020.

[p1stonhead]

wc98 said:

p1stonhead said:

Zod said:

Kermit power said:

vonuber said:

How do you close the funding gap without cuts? how do you honour Cornwall's £60million/year?
Are we looking at raising tax rates?

The people of Cornwall voted to leave, so they obviously felt they didn't need to £60m. fk 'em. Time for them to live with the consequences of their actions.

That's how I feel too. Same goes for Wales, but it won't happen. They'll get their money and the rest of us will have to pay for it.

The fking shouldnt get a penny. Like turkeys voting for christmas.

you do all realise we were actually paying that money to cornwall and wales anyway, with a cut for the eu added on ?

I meant a penny of anything which was coming from the EU

[Derek Smith]

don4l said:

Derek,

You appear to becoming a bit emotional.

A few months ago Boris decided that Leave would win. He has wanted to be PM all his life, so he decided to pretend to be passionate about leaving the EU.

To be fair, he did a fantastic job. The way he allowed Gisela Stuart and Andrea Ledsman to handle the nasty personal attacks that Ms Eagle, Sturgeon and the other hectoring fishwife hurled towards him was a great demonstration of true leadership.

In case you don't remember, each time they delivered a personal insult, Dimbleby offered him the chance to defend himself. Each time he held his hand out to one of his deputies, indicating that they should speak. They did not let him down. That was a demonstration of true leadership.

Boris isn't a coward. He spotted an opportunity, and he went for it.

I'm not sure why Gove stuck the knife in. My feeling is that Gove thinks that Boris is not really committed to Brexit. This means that he believes that Boris cannot negotiate the best exit deal for Britain.

You may have seen that I would tell Junker and Tusk to sod off.

You might think that I am joking. I am not. I may enjoy "winding up lefties", but I also know that Britain really does have the upper hand in these discussions.

Europe really has an awful lot more to lose than we do. These negotiations are going to be a game of poker. The best bluffer will win.

There is absolutely no need to accept freedom of movement. We are full. Our roads are jammed. We have hosepipe bans if it doesn't rain for ten days. I recently changed doctor's surgery because I couldn't get an appointment at my old surgery for two weeks.

If I ever don't get emotional about my country being trashed by self-serving MPs then you will know I'm brain dead.

But you are well wrong in the lastd bit. The lack of housing is down to lack of house building. It has been a policy of successive governments. It continues to be.

The condition of our roads is down to two factors: lack of road building and lack of affordable alternatives. Again, both political decisions.

As for lack of NHS doctors: that's down to lack of NHS doctors and whose fault is that? Further, get used to it. Exit for us will mean exit for a number of doctors. It is going on at present, but will get worse. Indian doctors no longer see the UK as the promised land because their economy is on the rise. Ours is about to plummet. I would assume this goes for other countries where we've denuded them of their much needed doctors so that we didn't have to train too many. As an aside, the number of midwives entering the profession will drop soon, and that's from a level inadequate to replace current wastage.

It is politicians not doing their job where the blame lies.

Politics, not immigration, is the problem.

And this from someone who believes that unfettered immigration is a major problem.

Johnson is not a chancer, he is merely selfish.

[London424]

wc98 said:

///ajd said:

The deal won't be as good though as we have now.

Brexiteers are still in denial about that.

I suspect the tory recovery plan is to look for the best outcome possible with EU pre Art 50, then compare it to what we have, and say "do you know what?" ...... it will likely to Norway with nil or min extra migration control, £350m costs at 85%, no influence and single market access may have clouds over e.g. passporting.

And the nation will say "what the fook would we want that for?"

They can't do that yet though, too soon.

the deal the uk will get will be specific to our situation. not the situation of norway, switzerland or anyone else. is this so hard to understand ?

That's my take on it. Why does everyone keep mentioning other countries all the time?

This is a pretty unique situation and I think the UK has some pretty decent cards to play. Yes there will be tough negotiations and we will win in some areas and lose in others. The point is, it will be up to us to decide.

We now have the opportunity of opening up trade discussions with the rest of the world.

We could look to undercut the EU on anything we wanted to to entice business here.

I'm not naive to think we will get everything we want, but we don't have to just bend over and feed off scraps either.