Hilary benn sacked
Discussion
zygalski said:
ash73 said:
gothatway said:
Heading ever closer to an imminent election with both parties having "Remain in the EU"in their manifestos. Trumps the referendum.
Exactly.Before the referendum result Cameron said he would invoke it immediately following a Leave vote.
Then he said - I'm resigning, my successor should be in place by the October conference, I will hand the job to them.
Perhaps his successor will say - I need to seek a new mandate from the people, we will hold a general election and lay out our plans there, the job will become the responsibility of whomsoever wins.
However, I can't see either of the major parties campaigning on a Remain pledge. The Tories obviously cannot, and in any case, if they stick to the Leave pledge then a deal with UKIP can almost certainly be done, which will give them a massive boost in support. Labour could try, but it would be flying in the face of the result, which is that Labour heartlands voted Leave, and that Corbyn is at heart anti-EU. It might help them form a pact with the SNP, but I doubt that this alone could save them.
I reckon both parties would campaign on a platform of "respecting the result". The difference will be in the approach to negotiations and what they claim they can deliver, priorities etc.
AmitG said:
I can envision the formal (article 50) notification being delayed to the other side of an election.
Before the referendum result Cameron said he would invoke it immediately following a Leave vote.
Then he said - I'm resigning, my successor should be in place by the October conference, I will hand the job to them.
Perhaps his successor will say - I need to seek a new mandate from the people, we will hold a general election and lay out our plans there, the job will become the responsibility of whomsoever wins.
However, I can't see either of the major parties campaigning on a Remain pledge. The Tories obviously cannot, and in any case, if they stick to the Leave pledge then a deal with UKIP can almost certainly be done, which will give them a massive boost in support. Labour could try, but it would be flying in the face of the result, which is that Labour heartlands voted Leave, and that Corbyn is at heart anti-EU. It might help them form a pact with the SNP, but I doubt that this alone could save them.
I reckon both parties would campaign on a platform of "respecting the result". The difference will be in the approach to negotiations and what they claim they can deliver, priorities etc.
I think you're spot on. Labour are in shambles. Now is the time to capitalise on the mess the Tories are in - they are completely divided - but lo and behold, Labour are in a worse mess, Lib Dems are not even on the radar. It's a sad state of affairs for British politics. Imagine UKIP and the Tories doing a deal. Britain is becoming right-wing and I really don't like that direction. It's nasty and hateful and never achieves anything.Before the referendum result Cameron said he would invoke it immediately following a Leave vote.
Then he said - I'm resigning, my successor should be in place by the October conference, I will hand the job to them.
Perhaps his successor will say - I need to seek a new mandate from the people, we will hold a general election and lay out our plans there, the job will become the responsibility of whomsoever wins.
However, I can't see either of the major parties campaigning on a Remain pledge. The Tories obviously cannot, and in any case, if they stick to the Leave pledge then a deal with UKIP can almost certainly be done, which will give them a massive boost in support. Labour could try, but it would be flying in the face of the result, which is that Labour heartlands voted Leave, and that Corbyn is at heart anti-EU. It might help them form a pact with the SNP, but I doubt that this alone could save them.
I reckon both parties would campaign on a platform of "respecting the result". The difference will be in the approach to negotiations and what they claim they can deliver, priorities etc.
silent ninja said:
I think you're spot on. Labour are in shambles. Now is the time to capitalise on the mess the Tories are in - they are completely divided - but lo and behold, Labour are in a worse mess, Lib Dems are not even on the radar. It's a sad state of affairs for British politics. Imagine UKIP and the Tories doing a deal. Britain is becoming right-wing and I really don't like that direction. It's nasty and hateful and never achieves anything.
I vote Tory and I'm worried by the state of the Labour party. Democracy doesn't work properly if there's only one credible party - look at Scotland...silent ninja said:
I think you're spot on. Labour are in shambles. Now is the time to capitalise on the mess the Tories are in - they are completely divided - but lo and behold, Labour are in a worse mess, Lib Dems are not even on the radar. It's a sad state of affairs for British politics. Imagine UKIP and the Tories doing a deal. Britain is becoming right-wing and I really don't like that direction. It's nasty and hateful and never achieves anything.
Amazing isn't it? Rather than just shooting themselves in the foot they appear to have shot themselves in the gut and are bleeding out instead, you couldn't make it up.
silent ninja said:
AmitG said:
I can envision the formal (article 50) notification being delayed to the other side of an election.
Before the referendum result Cameron said he would invoke it immediately following a Leave vote.
Then he said - I'm resigning, my successor should be in place by the October conference, I will hand the job to them.
Perhaps his successor will say - I need to seek a new mandate from the people, we will hold a general election and lay out our plans there, the job will become the responsibility of whomsoever wins.
However, I can't see either of the major parties campaigning on a Remain pledge. The Tories obviously cannot, and in any case, if they stick to the Leave pledge then a deal with UKIP can almost certainly be done, which will give them a massive boost in support. Labour could try, but it would be flying in the face of the result, which is that Labour heartlands voted Leave, and that Corbyn is at heart anti-EU. It might help them form a pact with the SNP, but I doubt that this alone could save them.
I reckon both parties would campaign on a platform of "respecting the result". The difference will be in the approach to negotiations and what they claim they can deliver, priorities etc.
I think you're spot on. Before the referendum result Cameron said he would invoke it immediately following a Leave vote.
Then he said - I'm resigning, my successor should be in place by the October conference, I will hand the job to them.
Perhaps his successor will say - I need to seek a new mandate from the people, we will hold a general election and lay out our plans there, the job will become the responsibility of whomsoever wins.
However, I can't see either of the major parties campaigning on a Remain pledge. The Tories obviously cannot, and in any case, if they stick to the Leave pledge then a deal with UKIP can almost certainly be done, which will give them a massive boost in support. Labour could try, but it would be flying in the face of the result, which is that Labour heartlands voted Leave, and that Corbyn is at heart anti-EU. It might help them form a pact with the SNP, but I doubt that this alone could save them.
I reckon both parties would campaign on a platform of "respecting the result". The difference will be in the approach to negotiations and what they claim they can deliver, priorities etc.
ash73 said:
AmitG said:
However, I can't see either of the major parties campaigning on a Remain pledge. The Tories obviously cannot
They can if they pick Theresa May as leader.If May runs, I reckon she could do well to run on a platform of constructive disengagement with the EU - in other words, we will invoke article 50 as per the will of the electorate, but we respect the EU and its institutions, and we want to work together to reach an accommodation that helps us both to thrive. A leader that the EU institutions can do business with. She seems to have placed herself above the name-calling and fear tactics (from both sides) of the past few weeks.
is it more than 7 now...about to scan the thread.
tsilent ninja said:
Britain is becoming right-wing and I really don't like that direction. It's nasty and hateful and never achieves anything.
Quite the opposite.Labour makes all the right noises but doesn't actually help those less well-off. Just about every form of poverty measure increased during Labour's last painful 13 years taking the economy down.
Inequality worse under Labour than under Thatcher
Gulf between rich and poor cities widens under Labour
Education gap for poorest pupils widens under Labour
Social mobility in England lags behind other countries under Labour
Gap between rich and poor has widened under Labour
Child and Pensioner poverty up under Labour
NHS productivity falls under Labour
Public sector productivity falls under Labour
Youth reoffending increased since 2000 under Labour despite increased spending
Some of the links may have moved or be paywalled. There's a range of secondary sources in there but all use gov't / ONS data so it's irrelevant. Anyone wanting to locate a moved article should be able to do so using the headlines.
The reason that the UK and other EU countries are moving to the centre-right is simple, left-wing policies have failed for several decades. It's time to try an alternative that won't bankrupt the country and after 13 years hasn't increased poverty.
Time will tell if it does better or not, if it doesn't it deserves to be voted out, just like Labour.
One more thing, it's by no means nasty as claimed. There's a thread on PH covering this and Labour wins hands down. Think McPoison et al. This name-calling started to get heavy within the latter part of the Thatcher years, and it wasn't accurate even then. One of the funniest things is to see excuse merchants blaming Thatcher after 13 years with the Labour Party quite able to make a big difference - if only it was competent. Even now, with a Tory (loosely speaking) Prime Minister on gardening leave, Labour pressed self-destruct first and is going down faster.
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