"No more Polish vermin"

[battered]

BIANCO said:

Ask yourself where you more worried when the EU result came or when just a few years ago when it looked like our cities where going to burn with the social unrest?.

Honestly? Last week. Because we will go on paying for this one in every sense for years to come, and we can't fix it by beefing up the police and attending to the living conditions on the sink estates.

[vonuber]

battered said:

BIANCO said:

Ask yourself where you more worried when the EU result came or when just a few years ago when it looked like our cities where going to burn with the social unrest?.

Honestly? Last week. Because we will go on paying for this one in every sense for years to come, and we can't fix it by beefing up the police and attending to the living conditions on the sink estates.

Agree. And I was awake that night with police helicopters overhead, police in the streets and all hell breaking loose.
This feels far different.

[berlintaxi]

battered said:

BIANCO said:

Ask yourself where you more worried when the EU result came or when just a few years ago when it looked like our cities where going to burn with the social unrest?.

Honestly? Last week. Because we will go on paying for this one in every sense for years to come, and we can't fix it by beefing up the police and attending to the living conditions on the sink estates.

Couldn't agree more, the social unrest would have burnt itself out over a few days, the damage to this nation from last week will last for years.

Edited by berlintaxi on Friday 1st July 06:30

[mph1977]

BIANCO said:

The disrespect for the working class in this country is worrying. These jobs need doing and someone needs to do them. Normal market forces have not been allowed to take effect with uncontrolled immigration and an oversized welfare state. You need someone to do a job but no one want to do it, normal market forces mean you would need to pay more, that's not happened.

Or adjust the demand to meet your supply ...

You also have to remember that the same sort of people as the Leave campaign argued against the NMW becasue they claimed that the workers in the lowest paid jobs simply did not produce sufficient income to justify paying the NMW ...

BIANCO said:

As for any monkey could do it, you try it for a week or so, repetitive dull jobs come with their own demanding mental effects.

I'm not saying they should be being paid well above minimum wage but perhaps a bit less disrespect would be nice. And a rise in pay inline with everyone else in the same companies they work.

Another argument against the NMW / Living wage was that is reduced the ability of companies to reward those at lower levels who did produce work that meant their were 'worth' around or slightly more than the NMW - especially if they supervised or managed others... e.g. you think your chargehands are worth 7. 40 / hour but you've got to pay your ordinary operatives 7.20 ... but the hassle for being a charge hand is more than 20p/ hour ( less than 10 pounds / week)

BIANCO said:

What people seem to be saying is, “listen dheads work harder for less and for longer and stop whining about it so I can continue my privileged lifestyle”. No wonder these people are pisst off and when given the chance to vote against the status quo they do so. Thank god for democracy and these people get a say. If they didn't then eventually like in every other non democratic society the peasants eventually revolt. And that's why the referendum result should be made to stand.

but how does that sit with those who assert the NMW is too high, has driven up prices to meet the costs of delivering the NMW ...

you also seem to be confusing/ conflating the presence ofthe NMW and /or immigrants with the NIMBY / G Brown induced property market issues ...

BIANCO said:

Ask yourself where you more worried when the EU result came or when just a few years ago when it looked like our cities where going to burn with the social unrest?.

Also if all these immigrants are so intelligent and ambitious how long do you think they will continue to do these low skilled low paid jobs for? Then who will do the jobs, bring in another few million more.?

the immigrants getting substantive entry level posts / promoted is what breeds the myth that certain employers don't employ English people ...

Ethnic British underclass scum don't last on agency becasue of st attitude , therefore never get offered substantive job - start of the myth - because they are whinging to their knuckle dragging mates in the pub / job centre queue aobut how such and such are racists and only employ furriners...

substantive employee base at entry levels becomes increasingly not british means the proprtion of team leaders / higher level ops / trainers reflects the make up of the workforce not the local population ... leads to afew years later 2nd tier supervision / FLM grade reflects the make up of the workforce not the local population ( glass ceiling here for through the ranks regardless of ethnicity in many organisations)

[battered]

BIANCO said:

Also if all these immigrants are so intelligent and ambitious how long do you think they will continue to do these low skilled low paid jobs for? Then who will do the jobs, bring in another few million more.?

Like I said earlier:
"The bright ones I know in the factories are now managers, supervisors, etc. My ex next door neighbour is one such, started out as a grunt installing lighting in shops, he's got something about him so he now runs the jobs while the new grunts do the fetching and carrying and screwing together. He's bought a nice house in Wakey, has a wife, a baby on the way and a dog that's certifiably insane but great fun. He's not going back to Poland anytime soon. "

I'm happy to see Polish managers and supervisors in the factories where I work. They are there because they are the best people to do the job. They have a good attitude towards work. On the rare occasions when I have had to pull them up about something and say "and I will be checking, later today, so you will be wise to sort this out immediately" they take it square on the chin and sort it out. I don't know what's said when I have my back turned but on the occasion I'm thinking about it took all of 5 minutes before one of the other Polish guys came to see me and said "I've been told I have to do XYZ, here it is, is this OK?" Yes it is. Good work, carry on.

10 minutes after that the supervisor and I were happily discussing our respective plans for the weekend while the factory ran like a watch. That's what a good supervisor can do.

[Mrr T]

BIANCO said:

The disrespect for the working class in this country is worrying. These jobs need doing and someone needs to do them. Normal market forces have not been allowed to take effect with uncontrolled immigration and an oversized welfare state. You need someone to do a job but no one want to do it, normal market forces mean you would need to pay more, that's not happened.

As for any monkey could do it, you try it for a week or so, repetitive dull jobs come with their own demanding mental effects.

I'm not saying they should be being paid well above minimum wage but perhaps a bit less disrespect would be nice. And a rise in pay inline with everyone else in the same companies they work.

What people seem to be saying is, “listen dheads work harder for less and for longer and stop whining about it so I can continue my privileged lifestyle”. No wonder these people are pisst off and when given the chance to vote against the status quo they do so. Thank god for democracy and these people get a say. If they didn't then eventually like in every other non democratic society the peasants eventually revolt. And that's why the referendum result should be made to stand.

Ask yourself where you more worried when the EU result came or when just a few years ago when it looked like our cities where going to burn with the social unrest?.

Also if all these immigrants are so intelligent and ambitious how long do you think they will continue to do these low skilled low paid jobs for? Then who will do the jobs, bring in another few million more.?

I do not see any disrespect for the working class. I do see disrespect for the non working class. Even then it not for the temporary non working its for those where non working is a life style choise.

Your idea that if you cannot recruit at NMW an employer should put up the wage rate only works if the employer can get the customer to buy at a higher price as well.

The fact is the economic evidence suggests EU immigration is having little effect on the working class. Even with high levels of EU immigration, the employment rate is rising, the number of job vacancies remains high, and real wages are rising.

The only way I suggest EU migrants tend to effect the job market is that more educated EU migrants are prepared to take lower skilled work because they a) need an immediate income to live on b) know getting an established record of employment is going to lead them to get higher paying jobs later.

[98elise]

battered said:

avinalarf said:

I agree with your comment.
I would add that I believe many more people are tribal rather than racist.
Tribalism can be found all over the World and is not confined to Caucasians.
That plus a fear of the loss of cultural identity.
When an indigenous community feels that immigrants,or indeed anyone that they do not consider a part of their tribe,are defining a change in the status quo it causes resentment and that resentment is amplified in times of economic problems.

Tribalisim and racism are 2 sides of the same coin. It's the defence of "us" ness and attacking "other" ness. People have been resentful of and fighting against people from the other side of the hill since people started living on opposite sides of hills. It's innate. We support our tribe and feel threatened by competing tribes. West Side Story.

I once got attacked as a kid because I lived in one village and went to school in the next. Similar schools, but a couple of kids were out looking for bother and found me. Fortunately I was on my bike and once I'd established they weren't just out for a friendly chat I took off. A similar thing happened to the lad a couple of doors down around the same time.

Racism has its roots in tribalism, but its not the same thing. Tribalism is just our natural instinct to form groups for protection or mutual benefit. It happens in animals kingdom all the time. Its perfectly natural for us to be tribal.

Its probably been said before, but this isn't racism either. It would be xenophobia. The race of the "other side" is not the perceived issue. Its that they are from another country.

[Robertj21a]

battered said:

Like I said earlier:
"The bright ones I know in the factories are now managers, supervisors, etc. My ex next door neighbour is one such, started out as a grunt installing lighting in shops, he's got something about him so he now runs the jobs while the new grunts do the fetching and carrying and screwing together. He's bought a nice house in Wakey, has a wife, a baby on the way and a dog that's certifiably insane but great fun. He's not going back to Poland anytime soon. "

I'm happy to see Polish managers and supervisors in the factories where I work. They are there because they are the best people to do the job. They have a good attitude towards work. On the rare occasions when I have had to pull them up about something and say "and I will be checking, later today, so you will be wise to sort this out immediately" they take it square on the chin and sort it out. I don't know what's said when I have my back turned but on the occasion I'm thinking about it took all of 5 minutes before one of the other Polish guys came to see me and said "I've been told I have to do XYZ, here it is, is this OK?" Yes it is. Good work, carry on.

10 minutes after that the supervisor and I were happily discussing our respective plans for the weekend while the factory ran like a watch. That's what a good supervisor can do.

Excellent, and in my experience very typical of the Polish attitude to work.

[mph1977]

Mrr T said:

<snip>

The only way I suggest EU migrants tend to effect the job market is that more educated EU migrants are prepared to take lower skilled work because they a) need an immediate income to live on b) know getting an established record of employment is going to lead them to get higher paying jobs later.

or simply the numbers coming to the UK have a far higher %age ofthose people than there are in the UK population at that level...

[avinalarf]

98elise said:

Racism has its roots in tribalism, but its not the same thing. Tribalism is just our natural instinct to form groups for protection or mutual benefit. It happens in animals kingdom all the time. Its perfectly natural for us to be tribal.

Its probably been said before, but this isn't racism either. It would be xenophobia. The race of the "other side" is not the perceived issue. Its that they are from another country.

For some this may be true but I believe there are many things at play in our current climate most of which I've posted on other threads.

[rohrl]

BBC presenter Trish Adudu racially abused in Coventry

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warw...

[Sam All]

rohrl said:

BBC presenter Trish Adudu racially abused in Coventry

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warw...

Disappointing - "one individual so full of hate". And there are more but hopefully it will all settle down soon.

The Police should perhaps encourage members of the public to intervene in event of a hate crime.

[PositronicRay]

Sam All said:

Disappointing - "one individual so full of hate". And there are more but hopefully it will all settle down soon.

The Police should perhaps encourage members of the public to intervene in event of a hate crime.

Vigilantes?

[DeanR32]

My guard is well and truly up. This is exactly what I expected from a brexit vote. A minority that feels it has got its voice back after being silenced by all that "PC nonsense" for too long. Threads like this just prove a good chunk of the leave vote (again a minority in the grand scale of things) were solely voting to send em' back.

Cheers Nige

[Sam All]

PositronicRay said:

Sam All said:

Disappointing - "one individual so full of hate". And there are more but hopefully it will all settle down soon.

The Police should perhaps encourage members of the public to intervene in event of a hate crime.

Vigilantes?

Not quite, but all too often we hear of bystanders ignoring such fairly obvious actions - in this difficult phase, more vigilance would likely avoid some of these low threshold actions.

[Alpinestars]

DeanR32 said:

My guard is well and truly up. This is exactly what I expected from a brexit vote. A minority that feels it has got its voice back after being silenced by all that "PC nonsense" for too long. Threads like this just prove a good chunk of the leave vote (again a minority in the grand scale of things) were solely voting to send em' back.

Cheers Nige

Maybe Nige and Bowis and the rest of us Brits need to come out and condemn all these incidents?

[DeanR32]

Alpinestars said:

DeanR32 said:

My guard is well and truly up. This is exactly what I expected from a brexit vote. A minority that feels it has got its voice back after being silenced by all that "PC nonsense" for too long. Threads like this just prove a good chunk of the leave vote (again a minority in the grand scale of things) were solely voting to send em' back.

Cheers Nige

Maybe Nige and Bowis and the rest of us Brits need to come out and condemn all these incidents?

You think only Brits voted to leave?

Absolutely not. Would you want Mesut Ozil to apologise for the actions of the terrorists of the Islam faith for eg.? It's the action of a thick wker in my eyes, not a "Brit".

[Smiler.]

Alpinestars said:

DeanR32 said:

My guard is well and truly up. This is exactly what I expected from a brexit vote. A minority that feels it has got its voice back after being silenced by all that "PC nonsense" for too long. Threads like this just prove a good chunk of the leave vote (again a minority in the grand scale of things) were solely voting to send em' back.

Cheers Nige

Maybe Nige and Bowis and the rest of us Brits need to come out and condemn all these incidents?

You know what mate, you make a bloody good point.

It's time for all of us to pull together.

I personally haven't witnessed anything locally during/post Brexit (overtly related to Brexit) & the local jungle drums (excuse the expression) haven't either - only solidarity with people of foreign heritage.

However, it really isn't nice being labelled as a group - the whole thing is acid. Although there is a certain irony in the social justice types spouting such things, I'm hoping that good & decency will eventually prevail.

[Alpinestars]

DeanR32 said:

You think only Brits voted to leave?

Absolutely not. Would you want Mesut Ozil to apologise for the actions of the terrorists of the Islam faith for eg.? It's the action of a thick wker in my eyes, not a "Brit".

It was a bit of irony. We usually get the PH massive demanding apologies from the "Mesut Ozil" types for the actions of wkers who share the same religion.

But, people need to express their disgust to knock this behaviour on the head.

[DeanR32]

Alpinestars said:

It was a bit of irony. We usually get the PH massive demanding apologies from the "Mesut Ozil" types for the actions of wkers who share the same religion.

But, people need to express their disgust to knock this behaviour on the head.

I don't want to see people showing any social media type condemnation. I'd much rather it be confronted in real time.

There was a video I saw a while ago of a woman on a busy bus, confronting a man racially attacking a woman in the headscarf rig out. It takes more people like her (and there isn't anywhere near enough people like her today) to combat it as it happens.

I don't think Nige has helped with his 5th column type talk. It don't help one bit