"No more Polish vermin"
Discussion
KimJongHealthy said:
According to the Office for National Statistics 2015 census, there are 64.7mil people living in the UK, 831k of which immigrated from Poland, although this number probably includes a small minority who settled in long before Poland joined the EU. This means Poles make up 1.28% of the total population.
House of Commons "Prison Population Statistics" report, document number SN/SG/04334, tells us that UK prisons accommodate 93.1k people, which includes 965 Poles, making up 1.03% of the total inmates.
Not as bad as the tabloids want us to believe.
I'd agree.House of Commons "Prison Population Statistics" report, document number SN/SG/04334, tells us that UK prisons accommodate 93.1k people, which includes 965 Poles, making up 1.03% of the total inmates.
Not as bad as the tabloids want us to believe.
There was a massive Polish influx, for obvious reasons, mid way trough the last century. My home town's largest social club is Polish - it's not exclusively so, and the venue, as well as the community that built it, are very much integrated into the whole and part of the furniture, so the place is used for sports club dos and weddings etc. etc. and the Polish population are very much the norm.
It'd be easy to include some of these immigrants in stats and given the large numbers of Poles likely to be here, well, I know which side of the argument I'm on.
B'stard Child said:
Would it be acceptable to ask uk citizens that live in Europe and do not work to go home?
Not sure, just seeing what people think. wc98's original post said EU citizens that live and work here, hence the question about what he thought about people living and not working here. I think it would be acceptable to not pay UK citizens welfare if they're in another country and do not work or have not contributed for whatever the required years are.Is it the case in the US that if you're not working/have no visa you would be asked to go home?
cymtriks said:
Since the vote I've spoken to many people about why they voted and none of those who voted out mentioned race. The vast majority of reasons were based on business or personal dealings with the EU including regulations, others not following regulations, cost of extra regulations and corruption. Some mentioned lack of immigration control but none wanted to stop it completely.
I've spoken to salesman who make better deals in Africa and India than in the EU due to red tape.
That's two salesman in two unrelated companies and different products.
I've spoken to truck drivers who watched while the French torched their rigs.
I've spoken to several small business owners who think that the red tape has gone way too far.
Yes it does cost them money and it does affect their customers, twice I was the customer that asked for something they couldn't provide due to the EU.
As a business owner I would be interested to know which markets in Europe are harder to deal with than India, India is a nightmare in terms of establishing a trading platform and getting paid, never had this issue in European countries,as to red tape, the vast majority of useless time-comsuming requests we receive are from the UK Government, can't see that changing when we leave.I've spoken to salesman who make better deals in Africa and India than in the EU due to red tape.
That's two salesman in two unrelated companies and different products.
I've spoken to truck drivers who watched while the French torched their rigs.
I've spoken to several small business owners who think that the red tape has gone way too far.
Yes it does cost them money and it does affect their customers, twice I was the customer that asked for something they couldn't provide due to the EU.
berlintaxi said:
the vast majority of useless time-comsuming requests we receive are from the UK Government, can't see that changing when we leave.
i was kinda hoping brexit was the first part of the plan to abolish bureaucrats 
first isolate them from their european counterparts ,removing the "because eu" excuse . the systematically dismantle all their little empires then sacking at least 50% of them .i understand the thicker kids of the great and the good need gainful employ , i am just not sure tax payer funded ngo,s and the civil service are the best places to give them a home. i was thinking amazon, starbucks etc might be a better place for them,cheaper for the taxpayer and less collateral damage.
KimJongHealthy said:
Oh boy, this discussion has moved far from the original subject, so hope you don't mind me posting this.
I like to think I'm a sceptic and I certainly like to question statements, news and facts. I've stumbled upon an article today:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2614279/Po...
Daily Mail business as usual, but also repeated by other, this time more reputable, publications:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1-000-polish-inm...
I decided to do some research.
According to the Office for National Statistics 2015 census, there are 64.7mil people living in the UK, 831k of which immigrated from Poland, although this number probably includes a small minority who settled in long before Poland joined the EU. This means Poles make up 1.28% of the total population.
House of Commons "Prison Population Statistics" report, document number SN/SG/04334, tells us that UK prisons accommodate 93.1k people, which includes 965 Poles, making up 1.03% of the total inmates.
Not as bad as the tabloids want us to believe.
I'd be willing to bet that this is the reality of the vast majority of immigration-based-debates. But that wont stop the "Thaaaa turk errrr jerrrbs!" lot.I like to think I'm a sceptic and I certainly like to question statements, news and facts. I've stumbled upon an article today:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2614279/Po...
Daily Mail business as usual, but also repeated by other, this time more reputable, publications:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1-000-polish-inm...
I decided to do some research.
According to the Office for National Statistics 2015 census, there are 64.7mil people living in the UK, 831k of which immigrated from Poland, although this number probably includes a small minority who settled in long before Poland joined the EU. This means Poles make up 1.28% of the total population.
House of Commons "Prison Population Statistics" report, document number SN/SG/04334, tells us that UK prisons accommodate 93.1k people, which includes 965 Poles, making up 1.03% of the total inmates.
Not as bad as the tabloids want us to believe.
Boring_Chris said:
I'd be willing to bet that this is the reality of the vast majority of immigration-based-debates. But that wont stop the "Thaaaa turk errrr jerrrbs!" lot.
Culturally, Polish immigration and integration is a very, very different proposition to that of many other nations, EU or RoW.battered said:
Digga said:
Culturally, Polish immigration and integration is a very, very different proposition to that of many other nations, EU or RoW.
Why so? I find them well integrated. They are Europeans and not very different from Brits.Immigration from some other European nations, by contrast, has been smaller in number, more recent and without quite the same cultural synergy.
In the same way, immigration from India generally comes from a fairly well established and close relationship, established over a longer period even than the Poles. Whereas immigration from other RoW nations does not and, moreover, there are often other cultural barriers to swift integration.
Digga said:
That was exactly the point I was making. Poles have been here a good while. We took many in during WW2, their forces fought alongside us against a common enemy. Both nations like a drink or two. There's a lot of common ground.
Immigration from some other European nations, by contrast, has been smaller in number, more recent and without quite the same cultural synergy.
In the same way, immigration from India generally comes from a fairly well established and close relationship, established over a longer period even than the Poles. Whereas immigration from other RoW nations does not and, moreover, there are often other cultural barriers to swift integration.
Ah, OK. I follow you now.Immigration from some other European nations, by contrast, has been smaller in number, more recent and without quite the same cultural synergy.
In the same way, immigration from India generally comes from a fairly well established and close relationship, established over a longer period even than the Poles. Whereas immigration from other RoW nations does not and, moreover, there are often other cultural barriers to swift integration.
Having said that I am finding it hard to think of EU citizens who *don't* integrate in the UK. French, Spanish, Italians, no problems. Prefer wine to beer and prone to eating for 6 hours without pause but there's nothing wrong with that. Latvians and Lithuanians, got a few in the factories where I work, easy. Like the Poles and the Brits, they enjoy a few pints. Slovaks are just like the Poles. Germans, Danes and Dutch are so much like us that it's untrue. In fact I think the Dutch are a better version of the Brits, I've never net a Dutch person I didn't like. "What about German women, Major?" "Good card players." Hungarians are grafters. Scandis are Brits all over again, let's face it half of the UK is descended from Vikings so it's no surprise we are alike.
Currently on a daily basis I deal with multiple Poles. A Serbian. A couple of Macedonians. Plus obviously various "half Spanish/Swiss/Italian etc etc. No problems with any of them. All lovely people who "get" the English and our way of life and beliefs etc. Pay taxes work like the rest of us. No problems at all. And I would hate for them to experience any prejudices.
However, the Polish family that live above me at home are completely and utterly Vermin. TBH, their nationality is irrelevant. They are just anti social scum. Who I hope f
k off far away forever! 
A Polish guy I worked with previously was a lazy who was constantly on the fiddle with Taxes and benefits.
There's always a handful of course. Just the way of things. I just wish the MSM would address the crap people as readily as praising the good people and pretending everything is perfect
However, the Polish family that live above me at home are completely and utterly Vermin. TBH, their nationality is irrelevant. They are just anti social scum. Who I hope f
k off far away forever! A Polish guy I worked with previously was a lazy
who was constantly on the fiddle with Taxes and benefits.There's always a handful of course. Just the way of things. I just wish the MSM would address the crap people as readily as praising the good people and pretending everything is perfect
battered said:
Ah, OK. I follow you now.
Having said that I am finding it hard to think of EU citizens who *don't* integrate in the UK. French, Spanish, Italians, no problems. Prefer wine to beer and prone to eating for 6 hours without pause but there's nothing wrong with that. Latvians and Lithuanians, got a few in the factories where I work, easy. Like the Poles and the Brits, they enjoy a few pints. Slovaks are just like the Poles. Germans, Danes and Dutch are so much like us that it's untrue. In fact I think the Dutch are a better version of the Brits, I've never net a Dutch person I didn't like. "What about German women, Major?" "Good card players." Hungarians are grafters. Scandis are Brits all over again, let's face it half of the UK is descended from Vikings so it's no surprise we are alike.
Broadly agree. The Dutch are like Yorkshire people. Very direct. Very, very direct and to the point, but at least you know where you stand.Having said that I am finding it hard to think of EU citizens who *don't* integrate in the UK. French, Spanish, Italians, no problems. Prefer wine to beer and prone to eating for 6 hours without pause but there's nothing wrong with that. Latvians and Lithuanians, got a few in the factories where I work, easy. Like the Poles and the Brits, they enjoy a few pints. Slovaks are just like the Poles. Germans, Danes and Dutch are so much like us that it's untrue. In fact I think the Dutch are a better version of the Brits, I've never net a Dutch person I didn't like. "What about German women, Major?" "Good card players." Hungarians are grafters. Scandis are Brits all over again, let's face it half of the UK is descended from Vikings so it's no surprise we are alike.
Personally I like the Swedish/Norwegian/Dutch balance of work, life and banter. They seem to have their priorities straight.
It's not about integrating really. As has been said above, all of the EU migrants come from reasonably wealthy European countries with more or less secure democracies and similar personal freedoms. Compared to immigrants from some of the poorer nations of Africa, the middle east or the caucuses it's quite likely that they'd pass completely unnoticed.
The only problem related to immigration IMO is that the number of people coming to the UK has only been limited by the demand in this country for low paid labour.
Yes, it's been good for the economy on the top line. But has it really been good for people who have seen wages stagnate because there's someone perfectly able to do the job and happy to do it for a pittance coming over on the next Ryanair flight from Poznan? I don't think so.
Don't get me wrong; on an individual level they are no better or worse than anyone else- and immigration has massively enriched this country both economically and culturally.
But for me this goes back to the very definition of what a state is for. Even my most lefty mates have conceded that it's principally there to protect its citizens from threats - and if that's the case then the poorest citizens need to be protected from negative wage pressure.
And before anyone says "No evidence for that", Here's a paper from a not-made-up institution.
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~uctpb21/Cpapers/Review%20of%...
The only problem related to immigration IMO is that the number of people coming to the UK has only been limited by the demand in this country for low paid labour.
Yes, it's been good for the economy on the top line. But has it really been good for people who have seen wages stagnate because there's someone perfectly able to do the job and happy to do it for a pittance coming over on the next Ryanair flight from Poznan? I don't think so.
Don't get me wrong; on an individual level they are no better or worse than anyone else- and immigration has massively enriched this country both economically and culturally.
But for me this goes back to the very definition of what a state is for. Even my most lefty mates have conceded that it's principally there to protect its citizens from threats - and if that's the case then the poorest citizens need to be protected from negative wage pressure.
And before anyone says "No evidence for that", Here's a paper from a not-made-up institution.
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~uctpb21/Cpapers/Review%20of%...
davepoth said:
It's not about integrating really. As has been said above, all of the EU migrants come from reasonably wealthy European countries with more or less secure democracies and similar personal freedoms. Compared to immigrants from some of the poorer nations of Africa, the middle east or the caucuses it's quite likely that they'd pass completely unnoticed.
The only problem related to immigration IMO is that the number of people coming to the UK has only been limited by the demand in this country for low paid labour.
Yes, it's been good for the economy on the top line. But has it really been good for people who have seen wages stagnate because there's someone perfectly able to do the job and happy to do it for a pittance coming over on the next Ryanair flight from Poznan? I don't think so.
Don't get me wrong; on an individual level they are no better or worse than anyone else- and immigration has massively enriched this country both economically and culturally.
But for me this goes back to the very definition of what a state is for. Even my most lefty mates have conceded that it's principally there to protect its citizens from threats - and if that's the case then the poorest citizens need to be protected from negative wage pressure.
And before anyone says "No evidence for that", Here's a paper from a not-made-up institution.
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~uctpb21/Cpapers/Review%20of%...
How do you interpret the report?The only problem related to immigration IMO is that the number of people coming to the UK has only been limited by the demand in this country for low paid labour.
Yes, it's been good for the economy on the top line. But has it really been good for people who have seen wages stagnate because there's someone perfectly able to do the job and happy to do it for a pittance coming over on the next Ryanair flight from Poznan? I don't think so.
Don't get me wrong; on an individual level they are no better or worse than anyone else- and immigration has massively enriched this country both economically and culturally.
But for me this goes back to the very definition of what a state is for. Even my most lefty mates have conceded that it's principally there to protect its citizens from threats - and if that's the case then the poorest citizens need to be protected from negative wage pressure.
And before anyone says "No evidence for that", Here's a paper from a not-made-up institution.
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~uctpb21/Cpapers/Review%20of%...
They way I read it the summary could be
- the impacts are tiny either way
- 80% of wages are increased by immigration
- of the bottom 10%, the impact is 0.7p/hour reduction. £1/month.
- the 95% error bounds in the graph could practically wipe out this difference
Unless you aspire to never get out of the bottom 10/20%!where it makes virtually no difference anyway, immigration will boost your wages.
You have to wonder about politicians who must inderstand this but spin it as a very bad thing. Its misleading.
battered said:
Ah, OK. I follow you now.
Having said that I am finding it hard to think of EU citizens who *don't* integrate in the UK.
Those from some of the poorer and more recently joined EU nations do not, quite, have the same life experiences, expectations and values as those from the majority of the EU. They are not 'bad', but are not necessarily as easily integrated into the UK which is a very advanced and developed country.Having said that I am finding it hard to think of EU citizens who *don't* integrate in the UK.
I'm specifically thinking of this sort of thing: http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/482347/There-will...
battered said:
Yes, but the Roma are not a country but a group. You may as well say that Irish travellers don't integrate. Some people don't, but that's not about nationality per se.
Oh yes, I do realise that, but the more recent influx of them has been from new EU member states:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/15/sh...
It's as if publications like the indy actually want hate crimes to soar just so they can say "I told you so".
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-...
BlackLabel said:
It's as if publications like the indy actually want hate crimes to soar just so they can say "I told you so".
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-...
It's a vile thing for the media to keep batting on about because, at some level, the very frequency with which the idea is discussed, is increasingly likely to serve as both inspiration and justification to some mouth-breathing idiots.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-...
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff