"No more Polish vermin"

[alfie2244]

Funny how people from Oz have such strong opinions on what is happening in the UK when all that so many want in the UK is similar to the way things are done in OZ already..... i.e. control immigration.

[rscott]

KimJongHealthy said:

Well... sadly with one exception: 14.6% muslims (from around 4.6% total in the UK). Which is still pretty good compared to France, where almost 70% or Belgium with 40% of inmates following Islam.


There are millions of Muslim, Hindu, Chinese, Polish, Romanian and other people living in Europe, and only one of those groups seems to have a constant problem with the law in almost every single country. Almost if an oppressive social system famous for women rights issues, lack of freedom of speech and imprisoning rape victims doesn't integrate too well with the western society.

Edited by KimJongHealthy on Sunday 19th February 13:43

Minor correction - you're comparing 2011 census figures for religion against 2016 prison stats. Use the 2011 prison report and it's actually 12% Muslim prisoners, not 14.6% . Still indicates a problem, but on a slightly smaller scale.

Interesting article on the BBC about it http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31794599 . Seems to suggest that Muslim prisoners tend to by younger and quite a few are not even British nationals, but that the reoffending rate is lower.

It'd also be enlightening to see a breakdown of that prison population by type of crime - whether they're offences against women, for example.

Also be interesting to see comparisons with other similar economic groups, given that many Muslims (especially those relatively new to the UK) are in the very low income groups.

Edited by rscott on Sunday 19th February 14:05

[rscott]

KimJongHealthy said:

rscott said:

KimJongHealthy said:

Well... sadly with one exception: 14.6% muslims (from around 4.6% total in the UK). Which is still pretty good compared to France, where almost 70% or Belgium with 40% of inmates following Islam.


There are millions of Muslim, Hindu, Chinese, Polish, Romanian and other people living in Europe, and only one of those groups seems to have a constant problem with the law in almost every single country. Almost if an oppressive social system famous for women rights issues, lack of freedom of speech and imprisoning rape victims doesn't integrate too well with the western society.

Edited by KimJongHealthy on Sunday 19th February 13:43

Minor correction - you're comparing 2011 census figures for religion against 2016 prison stats. Use the 2011 prison report and it's actually 12% Muslim prisoners, not 14.6% . Still indicates a problem, but on a slightly smaller scale.

Interesting article on the BBC about it http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31794599 . Seems to suggest that Muslim prisoners tend to by younger and quite a few are not even British nationals, but that the reoffending rate is lower.

It'd also be enlightening to see a breakdown of that prison population by type of crime - whether they're offences against women, for example.

Also be interesting to see comparisons with other similar economic groups, given that many Muslims (especially those relatively new to the UK) are in the very low income groups.

Edited by rscott on Sunday 19th February 14:05

I would like to point out that nobody is really stopping those people "living in poverty" from applying for the same jobs as Poles or Romanians.

If a guy comes here from another country often barely speaking English, with no savings or contacts, and finds a job in a week, I really can't think of any valid reason why anyone would stay unemployed for years. And when that guy loses his job, he prints 100 copies of his resume and walks from place to place looking for another one instead of smashing windows and burning cars demanding more money for "being born in the wrong neighbourhood".

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

Edited by KimJongHealthy on Sunday 19th February 15:22

Make your mind up. First you were suggesting Muslims are likely to commit offences against women, now it's rioting & looting? Any evidence at all as to the type of crime they're actually committing?

http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/crime-data-rese... suggests that many Muslims live in the most deprived/high crime rate areas. Many of these are areas which have had high crime rates for decades (ie before large Muslim population growth there), so if Muslims make up a disproportionately large % of that area, they'll also make up a disproportionately large % of crime too.

It's pretty clear to me that it's not as simple as Muslims are are responsible for a larger % of crimes because they're Muslims. It needs more research to determine how much other social and economic factors make a difference.

[Rich_W]

KimJongHealthy said:

So on the basis of that if you are relatively under educated and want to work for a living. You shouldn't be allowed to and should stick to benefits? With the resultant ire that raises.

Its a proven fact that at the low skill end high immigration drives down wages. Simple supply and demand. Problem is that then the Brit born is unemployed because a non brit has their job. It isn't £5 or even £67 a month. Its £1200 a month they don't have! (min wage 7.20 x 173.3hrs)

Also you've raised your unemployment number by one, which means more benefits have to paid to that unemployed person, which won't be covered by the tax the migrant worker is generating. (I shall ignore the fact that a percentage of non UK people are paid cash in hand by unscrupulous Brit employers)

No one is saying ship them all back. Most are saying we need targeted immigration. Bring in the Drs and Engineers and skilled staff. Leave the shelf stacking, fruit pickers, casual staff jobs to students part time or just people that were never that academic and need to work to enjoy life.

[rscott]

As someone who lives in the heart of both the soft fruit and salad vegetable production area of East Anglia, I'd say your wrong.

Britain has been using foreign workers as fruit pickers for decades and will still need to after Brexit. British students are no use - for a start, the soft fruit season now runs for about 6 months of the year, not just 12 weeks in the summer.

Based on feedback from a friend who actually owns a large soft fruit producing company, he finds that the Eastern European workforce work harder, more efficiently and with fewer absences that UK staff. He pays a decent wage (more than most supermarkets) plus provides reasonable accommodation and perks for the staff.

[Murph7355]

Rich_W said:

So on the basis of that if you are relatively under educated and want to work for a living. You shouldn't be allowed to and should stick to benefits? With the resultant ire that raises....

That's not what that meme is saying though (IMO).

It's saying that if you want to work for a living, how on earth can you be beaten to a job if someone without English as their first language, and lesser ability to have contacts, can get those jobs first...

[jjlynn27]

berlintaxi said:

WTF, is that the Waterford Haji-Ioannous or the Tipperary side of the family?

Very good.

Quite easy to confuse the two. 'Them foreigners, they all the same'.

[battered]

jjlynn27 said:

berlintaxi said:

WTF, is that the Waterford Haji-Ioannous or the Tipperary side of the family?

Very good.

Quite easy to confuse the two. 'Them foreigners, they all the same'.

It was indeed a great line. Like you though, I never knew Steli O'S was from the Emerald Isle. Ach, sure. Everyone knows old Steli O'S. So 'tis.

[jjlynn27]

davepoth said:

jjlynn27 said:

Your posts are getting more and more ridiculous. The author of the article should learn the difference between disposable and discretionary income before writing on the subject. Even if you take that all the people in that group are on low incomes and all of their salaries are affected by immigration, which is quite clearly not the case, the article would read '5 mil brits have less than £15 at the end of the month'. No difference at all, none. They are fked in either case. This would ignore all the people who are better off because of immigration.

I was merely pointing out that £5 a month would make quite a lot of difference to a substantial number of people.

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery."

Wrote Dickens in David Copperfield. I suppose you're going to tell me he was wrong too?

And, once again, it doesn't make any difference, as explained earlier. In utter desperation, you are trying to construct a scenario where £5 a month makes a difference; as pointed earlier you can construct a scenario where 1p a year makes a difference, and it would be equally stupid. As a pizza delivery person, and I doubt that anything pays less than that, £5 a month made no difference whatsoever, to someone without a support network. Quoting Dickens makes even less sense than linking idiotic article where author demonstrably have no clue what he's talking about.

[fido]

Murph7355 said:

It's saying that if you want to work for a living, how on earth can you be beaten to a job if someone without English as their first language, and lesser ability to have contacts, can get those jobs first...

Like most social satire memes - it's rather simplistic. The person hiring can speak the first language that the person without English as their first language. Also for many jobs at the lower end of the market being able to string a few sentences (work-related) together is all that is needed. That's increasingly true for many technological jobs. Admittedly some of the home-grown graduates are not as good as the better graduates from other countries - though perhaps it's a bit cruel to taunt them rhetorically for it?

[battered]

Rich_W said:

Its a proven fact that at the low skill end high immigration drives down wages. Simple supply and demand.

But we have min wage. Most of the jobs being done by unskilled migrant labour pay min wage. They do in food factories, at least. If any wages are being driven down it's the rates charged by artisans. I can understand why Brit plasterers and brickies are upset about immigrants, because 10 years ago a Brit brickie/plasterer/joiner didn't get out of bed for less than about £300 a day, more in London. The Poles have pushed that down, for sure.

RichW said:

Problem is that then the Brit born is unemployed because a non brit has their job. It isn't £5 or even £67 a month. Its £1200 a month they don't have! (min wage 7.20 x 173.3hrs)

Also you've raised your unemployment number by one, which means more benefits have to paid to that unemployed person, which won't be covered by the tax the migrant worker is generating. (I shall ignore the fact that a percentage of non UK people are paid cash in hand by unscrupulous Brit employers)

But you haven't. It's not zero-sum and there isn't a fixed number of jobs to do. I pointed this out earlier, if you bring in 1000 Poles then they all need somewhere to live, they all need to buy food, they all have cars that need fuel and repairs and they all go to the pub. This keeps the shelf stackers, mechanics, and publicans in business.

It's not as simple as saying that you are going to cherry pick doctors, nurses, teachers, we need all labour, including unskilled. We all know that the average immigrant Pole is more likely to be in work and therefore paying tax to UK govt than the average unskilled Brit.

[///ajd]

Rich_W said:

So on the basis of that if you are relatively under educated and want to work for a living. You shouldn't be allowed to and should stick to benefits? With the resultant ire that raises.

Its a proven fact that at the low skill end high immigration drives down wages. Simple supply and demand. Problem is that then the Brit born is unemployed because a non brit has their job. It isn't £5 or even £67 a month. Its £1200 a month they don't have! (min wage 7.20 x 173.3hrs)

Also you've raised your unemployment number by one, which means more benefits have to paid to that unemployed person, which won't be covered by the tax the migrant worker is generating. (I shall ignore the fact that a percentage of non UK people are paid cash in hand by unscrupulous Brit employers)

No one is saying ship them all back. Most are saying we need targeted immigration. Bring in the Drs and Engineers and skilled staff. Leave the shelf stacking, fruit pickers, casual staff jobs to students part time or just people that were never that academic and need to work to enjoy life.

As discussed above:

- the difference in wages is very small in real terms
- there is not a fixed number of jobs; it is misleading to assume there is - you would make completely false deductions from the impact of immigration if you did

- despite the readily available facts above, some still insist on reading it another way. It can hardly be surprising when some start to question the motives or reasons for such "alternative" reasoning.

[davepoth]

///ajd said:

- there is not a fixed number of jobs; it is misleading to assume there is - you would make completely false deductions from the impact of immigration if you did

That only holds true while there is a fixed population though. I don't think I've seen any work done where supply of labour is functionally infinite.

[battered]

Read some economics, then you'll see that employment is indeed elastic. Within normal population bounds employment is effectively infinite. Think about it, if you double a population you double the need for housing, cars, food, clothing, house repairs, car repairs, so it goes on. That's twice the jobs, albeit in simplistic terms. Employment and money are not a fixed pot full of stuff.

Keynes went through all this a century ago or more.

Edited by battered on Sunday 19th February 17:19

[///ajd]

davepoth said:

///ajd said:

- there is not a fixed number of jobs; it is misleading to assume there is - you would make completely false deductions from the impact of immigration if you did

That only holds true while there is a fixed population though. I don't think I've seen any work done where supply of labour is functionally infinite.

Nonsense! There has been plenty of work done looking at our specific circumstances.

https://www.ft.com/content/0deacb52-178b-11e6-9d98...

(without direct cut and pasting) FT asks:

What is the impact of migration on unemployment and wages?

It rubbishes the simple argument that migrants compete with the local population for jobs, driving down wages and pushing up unemployment for Brits.
This is wrong to ignore what is said above - migrants also buy goods and services — they boost the economy and create new jobs.

They say there is little evidence that more migrants push wages down or unemployment up.

LSE is quoted as saying its nonsense

Former member of the government’s Migration Advisory Committee, says: “There is still no evidence of an overall negative impact of immigration on jobs, [or] wages.”

This continual denial of these inconvenient facts is starting to look a bit suspect.

[Rich_W]

rscott said:

...
Based on feedback from a friend who actually owns a large soft fruit producing company, he finds that the Eastern European workforce work harder, more efficiently and with fewer absences that UK staff. He pays a decent wage (more than most supermarkets) plus provides reasonable accommodation and perks for the staff.

So it's fine to say Brits are lazy. But not Immigrants? Id question why he can't get any Brits to work for him if he pays so well. Maybe hes not even selecting them for interview. He's providing accommodation and perks? Do they pay council tax/bills when they stay with him? And yet NO brits want the work? I have in my head a Victorian mill owner type.

Murph7355 said:

It's saying that if you want to work for a living, how on earth can you be beaten to a job if someone without English as their first language, and lesser ability to have contacts, can get those jobs first...

If you are happy to work for less than market value then of course you can get a job more easily. For example. I know what I'm worth in m job. Obviously Id like 20% more a year. Who wouldn't. But I wouldn't take 30% less for the same work. Would you? But I happen to know a Pole who did take that and was very happy to be getting more than when he was in Poland. TBF he returned home last summer after a good 8-9 year of being here. No clue if it was Brexit related.

battered said:

The Poles have pushed that down, for sure.

I didn't realise it was OK for us to be in a race to the bottom. Surely if the Poles were smart they'd charge the same or price beat by a small percentage. No one minds competition. But to undercut the brits by a large percentage 25-40% only serves to ps off indigenous people who've spent years building up their business in the UK with the earnings cut they took to play the long game.

battered said:

But you haven't. It's not zero-sum and there isn't a fixed number of jobs to do. I pointed this out earlier, if you bring in 1000 Poles then they all need somewhere to live, they all need to buy food, they all have cars that need fuel and repairs and they all go to the pub. This keeps the shelf stackers, mechanics, and publicans in business.

I'm not convinced. I can only speak from what I've seen. Firstly there IS a finite number of jobs. 1000 extra poles will need extra housing which we don't exactly have a surplus of (so rents go up) and we aren't building thousands of homes (so no extra work) Food and Fuel I'll accept (though it is interesting that the guys I see in Tescos regularly NEVER pay for the multiple plastic bags they steal) Don't know a single Pole who take their car to a garage. Its always a bodge repair for £20. And remember every one you see on Polish plates isn't paying VED either. (since they aren't registered with the dvla. And they are SUPPOSED to do so after 6 months but they dont) And you wonder about UK insurance too but theres no way of checking. And literally NONE of them go to the Pub. They tend towards drinking/eating at home (Polish beer of course) playing computer games. Last time you saw a group of 5-6 Polish guys in a bar chatting up girls and doing what Brits do?

battered said:

We all know that the average immigrant Pole is more likely to be in work and therefore paying tax to UK govt than the average unskilled Brit.

There we go again with the Brit bashing again. But that's fine isn't it...

///ajd said:

As discussed above:

- the difference in wages is very small in real terms
- there is not a fixed number of jobs; it is misleading to assume there is - you would make completely false deductions from the impact of immigration if you did

- despite the readily available facts above, some still insist on reading it another way. It can hardly be surprising when some start to question the motives or reasons for such "alternative" reasoning.

I know your a mouth piece for Blair, but your wrong!

1) Difference in wages is because poster above mate who hire poles for his farm IS NOT HIRING Brits. So what do the Brits do for work?
2) In my industry we have NOT increased our staff count due to 3.3M coming over from the EU. We haven't seen an increase in demand to that (proportional since obviously they don't all need our services) level
3) Again, Brits bad. Immigrants good. But hey, only people who question immigration are racist yeah? hating White Brits is still racism. (though of course Dianne Abbott would disagree)

battered said:

Read some economics, then you'll see that employment is indeed elastic. Within normal population bounds employment is effectively infinite. Think about it, if you double a population you double the need for housing, cars, food, clothing, house repairs, car repairs, so it goes on. That's twice the jobs, albeit in simplistic terms. Employment and money are not a fixed pot full of stuff.

Keynes went through all this a century ago or more.

You don't understand the practices of a sizeable chunk of low skilled EU immigrants then. By which I mean the ones that are not planning on staying long term in the UK, gaining citizenship etc. And this I believe is probably well over 50-60%. If the work dried up tomorrow they'd be gone by the end of the week.

They aren't out there spending their pay check every month generating income for the country. They are saving it, spending it frugally, and in many cases sending it home. And in some cases I personally know of claiming child tax credits for children not in the UK. Which is partly a government policy failure because we can't be seen to be racist after all even if millions of pounds are leaving our economy...

Edited by Rich_W on Sunday 19th February 18:15

[Mr GrimNasty]

rscott said:

As someone who lives in the heart of both the soft fruit and salad vegetable production area of East Anglia, I'd say your wrong.

Britain has been using foreign workers as fruit pickers for decades and will still need to after Brexit. British students are no use - for a start, the soft fruit season now runs for about 6 months of the year, not just 12 weeks in the summer.

Based on feedback from a friend who actually owns a large soft fruit producing company, he finds that the Eastern European workforce work harder, more efficiently and with fewer absences that UK staff. He pays a decent wage (more than most supermarkets) plus provides reasonable accommodation and perks for the staff.

It's not only students is it, think how much potential there is already in the country, long term unemployed, low risk prisoners etc. etc. It would be valuable rehabilitation for them all.

The fact is there is ample labour in the UK already, it just needs a will and smart organisation.

[///ajd]

Rich_W said:

rscott said:

...
Based on feedback from a friend who actually owns a large soft fruit producing company, he finds that the Eastern European workforce work harder, more efficiently and with fewer absences that UK staff. He pays a decent wage (more than most supermarkets) plus provides reasonable accommodation and perks for the staff.

So it's fine to say Brits are lazy. But not Immigrants? Id question why he can't get any Brits to work for him if he pays so well. Maybe hes not even selecting them for interview. He's providing accommodation and perks? Do they pay council tax/bills when they stay with him? And yet NO brits want the work? I have in my head a Victorian mill owner type.

Murph7355 said:

It's saying that if you want to work for a living, how on earth can you be beaten to a job if someone without English as their first language, and lesser ability to have contacts, can get those jobs first...

If you are happy to work for less than market value then of course you can get a job more easily. For example. I know what I'm worth in m job. Obviously Id like 20% more a year. Who wouldn't. But I wouldn't take 30% less for the same work. Would you? But I happen to know a Pole who did take that and was very happy to be getting more than when he was in Poland. TBF he returned home last summer after a good 8-9 year of being here. No clue if it was Brexit related.

battered said:

The Poles have pushed that down, for sure.

I didn't realise it was OK for us to be in a race to the bottom. Surely if the Poles were smart they'd charge the same or price beat by a small percentage. No one minds competition. But to undercut the brits by a large percentage 25-40% only serves to ps off indigenous people who've spent years building up their business in the UK with the earnings cut they took to play the long game.

battered said:

But you haven't. It's not zero-sum and there isn't a fixed number of jobs to do. I pointed this out earlier, if you bring in 1000 Poles then they all need somewhere to live, they all need to buy food, they all have cars that need fuel and repairs and they all go to the pub. This keeps the shelf stackers, mechanics, and publicans in business.

I'm not convinced. I can only speak from what I've seen. Firstly there IS a finite number of jobs. 1000 extra poles will need extra housing which we don't exactly have a surplus of (so rents go up) and we aren't building thousands of homes (so no extra work) Food and Fuel I'll accept (though it is interesting that the guys I see in Tescos regularly NEVER pay for the multiple plastic bags they steal) Don't know a single Pole who take their car to a garage. Its always a bodge repair for £20. And remember every one you see on Polish plates isn't paying VED either. (since they aren't registered with the dvla. And they are SUPPOSED to do so after 6 months but they dont) And you wonder about UK insurance too but theres no way of checking. And literally NONE of them go to the Pub. They tend towards drinking/eating at home (Polish beer of course) playing computer games. Last time you saw a group of 5-6 Polish guys in a bar chatting up girls and doing what Brits do?

battered said:

We all know that the average immigrant Pole is more likely to be in work and therefore paying tax to UK govt than the average unskilled Brit.

There we go again with the Brit bashing again. But that's fine isn't it...

///ajd said:

As discussed above:

- the difference in wages is very small in real terms
- there is not a fixed number of jobs; it is misleading to assume there is - you would make completely false deductions from the impact of immigration if you did

- despite the readily available facts above, some still insist on reading it another way. It can hardly be surprising when some start to question the motives or reasons for such "alternative" reasoning.

I know your a mouth piece for Blair, but your wrong!

1) Difference in wages is because poster above mate who hire poles for his farm IS NOT HIRING Brits. So what do the Brits do for work?
2) In my industry we have NOT increased our staff count due to 3.3M coming over from the EU. We haven't seen an increase in demand to that (proportional since obviously they don't all need our services) level
3) Again, Brits bad. Immigrants good. But hey, only people who question immigration are racist yeah? hating White Brits is still racism. (though of course Dianne Abbott would disagree)

battered said:

Read some economics, then you'll see that employment is indeed elastic. Within normal population bounds employment is effectively infinite. Think about it, if you double a population you double the need for housing, cars, food, clothing, house repairs, car repairs, so it goes on. That's twice the jobs, albeit in simplistic terms. Employment and money are not a fixed pot full of stuff.

Keynes went through all this a century ago or more.

You don't understand the practices of a sizeable chunk of low skilled EU immigrants then. By which I mean the ones that are not planning on staying long term in the UK, gaining citizenship etc. And this I believe is probably well over 50-60%. If the work dried up tomorrow they'd be gone by the end of the week.

They aren't out there spending their pay check every month generating income for the country. They are saving it, spending it frugally, and in many cases sending it home. And in some cases I personally know of claiming child tax credits for children not in the UK. Which is partly a government policy failure because we can't be seen to be racist after all even if millions of pounds are leaving our economy...

Edited by Rich_W on Sunday 19th February 18:15

You obviously have very strong feelings about Poles.

You are convinced that absolutely none of them go to the pub, take their car to the garage or pay VED.

So they are all breaking the law, basically, in your view?

Sounds like you think they are all inferior to you.

[alfie2244]

///ajd said:

Sounds like you think they are all inferior to you.

Set against your belief that everyone is inferior to you eh slasher?

[don'tbesilly]

///ajd said:

Rich_W said:

rscott said:

...
Based on feedback from a friend who actually owns a large soft fruit producing company, he finds that the Eastern European workforce work harder, more efficiently and with fewer absences that UK staff. He pays a decent wage (more than most supermarkets) plus provides reasonable accommodation and perks for the staff.

So it's fine to say Brits are lazy. But not Immigrants? Id question why he can't get any Brits to work for him if he pays so well. Maybe hes not even selecting them for interview. He's providing accommodation and perks? Do they pay council tax/bills when they stay with him? And yet NO brits want the work? I have in my head a Victorian mill owner type.

Murph7355 said:

It's saying that if you want to work for a living, how on earth can you be beaten to a job if someone without English as their first language, and lesser ability to have contacts, can get those jobs first...

If you are happy to work for less than market value then of course you can get a job more easily. For example. I know what I'm worth in m job. Obviously Id like 20% more a year. Who wouldn't. But I wouldn't take 30% less for the same work. Would you? But I happen to know a Pole who did take that and was very happy to be getting more than when he was in Poland. TBF he returned home last summer after a good 8-9 year of being here. No clue if it was Brexit related.

battered said:

The Poles have pushed that down, for sure.

I didn't realise it was OK for us to be in a race to the bottom. Surely if the Poles were smart they'd charge the same or price beat by a small percentage. No one minds competition. But to undercut the brits by a large percentage 25-40% only serves to ps off indigenous people who've spent years building up their business in the UK with the earnings cut they took to play the long game.

battered said:

But you haven't. It's not zero-sum and there isn't a fixed number of jobs to do. I pointed this out earlier, if you bring in 1000 Poles then they all need somewhere to live, they all need to buy food, they all have cars that need fuel and repairs and they all go to the pub. This keeps the shelf stackers, mechanics, and publicans in business.

I'm not convinced. I can only speak from what I've seen. Firstly there IS a finite number of jobs. 1000 extra poles will need extra housing which we don't exactly have a surplus of (so rents go up) and we aren't building thousands of homes (so no extra work) Food and Fuel I'll accept (though it is interesting that the guys I see in Tescos regularly NEVER pay for the multiple plastic bags they steal) Don't know a single Pole who take their car to a garage. Its always a bodge repair for £20. And remember every one you see on Polish plates isn't paying VED either. (since they aren't registered with the dvla. And they are SUPPOSED to do so after 6 months but they dont) And you wonder about UK insurance too but theres no way of checking. And literally NONE of them go to the Pub. They tend towards drinking/eating at home (Polish beer of course) playing computer games. Last time you saw a group of 5-6 Polish guys in a bar chatting up girls and doing what Brits do?

battered said:

We all know that the average immigrant Pole is more likely to be in work and therefore paying tax to UK govt than the average unskilled Brit.

There we go again with the Brit bashing again. But that's fine isn't it...

///ajd said:

As discussed above:

- the difference in wages is very small in real terms
- there is not a fixed number of jobs; it is misleading to assume there is - you would make completely false deductions from the impact of immigration if you did

- despite the readily available facts above, some still insist on reading it another way. It can hardly be surprising when some start to question the motives or reasons for such "alternative" reasoning.

I know your a mouth piece for Blair, but your wrong!

1) Difference in wages is because poster above mate who hire poles for his farm IS NOT HIRING Brits. So what do the Brits do for work?
2) In my industry we have NOT increased our staff count due to 3.3M coming over from the EU. We haven't seen an increase in demand to that (proportional since obviously they don't all need our services) level
3) Again, Brits bad. Immigrants good. But hey, only people who question immigration are racist yeah? hating White Brits is still racism. (though of course Dianne Abbott would disagree)

battered said:

Read some economics, then you'll see that employment is indeed elastic. Within normal population bounds employment is effectively infinite. Think about it, if you double a population you double the need for housing, cars, food, clothing, house repairs, car repairs, so it goes on. That's twice the jobs, albeit in simplistic terms. Employment and money are not a fixed pot full of stuff.

Keynes went through all this a century ago or more.

You don't understand the practices of a sizeable chunk of low skilled EU immigrants then. By which I mean the ones that are not planning on staying long term in the UK, gaining citizenship etc. And this I believe is probably well over 50-60%. If the work dried up tomorrow they'd be gone by the end of the week.

They aren't out there spending their pay check every month generating income for the country. They are saving it, spending it frugally, and in many cases sending it home. And in some cases I personally know of claiming child tax credits for children not in the UK. Which is partly a government policy failure because we can't be seen to be racist after all even if millions of pounds are leaving our economy...

Edited by Rich_W on Sunday 19th February 18:15

You obviously have very strong feelings about Poles.

You are convinced that absolutely none of them go to the pub, take their car to the garage or pay VED.

So they are all breaking the law, basically, in your view?

Sounds like you think they are all inferior to you.

So Rich's well thought through and reasoned responses to battered posts about Polish immigrants becomes 'strong feelings' by Rich_W against Polish immigrants, and makes Rich_W superior to Polish immigrants.

Only you could twist his post like that,so well done