"No more Polish vermin"

[Mrr T]

Digga said:

jjlynn27 said:

Given that you can't purchase anything for £ in Poland, where do you think those £ end up?

Really?!? They get converted to other currencies and spent or invested elsewhere. It is a capital outflow.

You mean like buying a BMW?

[Digga]

Mrr T said:

Digga said:

jjlynn27 said:

Given that you can't purchase anything for £ in Poland, where do you think those £ end up?

Really?!? They get converted to other currencies and spent or invested elsewhere. It is a capital outflow.

You mean like buying a BMW?

Yes and no.

When you buy a car, even a foreign-built one, there's a good chunk of direct and indirect tax that ends up with HM Govt. When you shift currency abroad, none of that applies.

[jjlynn27]

Mrr T said:

Digga said:

jjlynn27 said:

Given that you can't purchase anything for £ in Poland, where do you think those £ end up?

Really?!? They get converted to other currencies and spent or invested elsewhere. It is a capital outflow.

You mean like buying a BMW?

Or if polish person buys Nissan / Jag.

[iSore]

I've dealt with Russians and Poles on various occasions.

4-5 years ago I rented a house out via an agency to a white British DHSS couple with 2 or three kids. Within 3 months there was trouble, police called out etc. Within a year the place was ruined, carpets destroyed, doors ripped off, wallpaper ruined, mouse st and a fireplace destroyed with a hammer. The usual sort of stuff you get from British white trash basically, but I found out, from the piles of opened and discarded mail that they were getting about £3000 a month between them on benefits. Letters from bailiffs showed that they'd run up four figure utility bills as well. Nice.

I haven't earned 3 grand in a month for a long time.

£4000 later the house was up for rent again. Rented it to three Polish guys who have been there for four years. Rent paid on time without fail, and they flag up any problems with the house. Good as gold really. I've sold surplus BMW bits to Polish lads too and they don't give a st about WW2 or Nazis any more than I do. I sold an engine to a Russian guy who hails from what was Stalingrad and like the Polish, they turn up, pay, have a chat and bugger off again.

We can't have it both ways - we want potatoes and trainers for bugger all but want to earn a certain wage - Eastern European labour fills the gap.

[Mrr T]

Digga said:

Mrr T said:

Digga said:

jjlynn27 said:

Given that you can't purchase anything for £ in Poland, where do you think those £ end up?

Really?!? They get converted to other currencies and spent or invested elsewhere. It is a capital outflow.

You mean like buying a BMW?

Yes and no.

When you buy a car, even a foreign-built one, there's a good chunk of direct and indirect tax that ends up with HM Govt. When you shift currency abroad, none of that applies.

So when you send money abroad out of income you have earned in the UK and on which you have paid UK taxes, there's a good chunk of direct tax that ends up with HM Govt.

[Digga]

Mrr T said:

Digga said:

Mrr T said:

Digga said:

jjlynn27 said:

Given that you can't purchase anything for £ in Poland, where do you think those £ end up?

Really?!? They get converted to other currencies and spent or invested elsewhere. It is a capital outflow.

You mean like buying a BMW?

Yes and no.

When you buy a car, even a foreign-built one, there's a good chunk of direct and indirect tax that ends up with HM Govt. When you shift currency abroad, none of that applies.

So when you send money abroad out of income you have earned in the UK and on which you have paid UK taxes, there's a good chunk of direct tax that ends up with HM Govt.

Not the same thing - you are twisting the argument to avoid the facts. The act of remittance aids the recipient economy and harms the donor economy.

All that said, it should be noted that capital controls are ill advised and complex and that often the benefit to the recipient economy can be higher than the damage caused to the donor.

[Mrr T]

Digga said:

Mrr T said:

Digga said:

Mrr T said:

Digga said:

jjlynn27 said:

Given that you can't purchase anything for £ in Poland, where do you think those £ end up?

Really?!? They get converted to other currencies and spent or invested elsewhere. It is a capital outflow.

You mean like buying a BMW?

Yes and no.

When you buy a car, even a foreign-built one, there's a good chunk of direct and indirect tax that ends up with HM Govt. When you shift currency abroad, none of that applies.

So when you send money abroad out of income you have earned in the UK and on which you have paid UK taxes, there's a good chunk of direct tax that ends up with HM Govt.

Not the same thing - you are twisting the argument to avoid the facts. The act of remittance aids the recipient economy and harms the donor economy.

All that said, it should be noted that capital controls are ill advised and complex and that often the benefit to the recipient economy can be higher than the damage caused to the donor.

I am not twisting facts I am pointing out the fact sending money abroad is no different from buying an imported product or even taking a holiday abroad.

The problem is your argument does not stand up.

[Digga]

Mrr T said:

I am not twisting facts I am pointing out the fact sending money abroad is no different from buying an imported product or even taking a holiday abroad.

The problem is your argument does not stand up.

Either you are obtuse, or you are economically illiterate. And I am being very polite by saying that.

Let us assume our Polish friend has saved a chunk of his taxed income and has the choice of buying himself a new BMW or sending the same amount of money to relatives in Poland:

A.) Buying a BMW
First hit:
Our friend will pay VAT, Road Fund Licence.
The dealer will pay tax on any profits.
The UK distributor will pay tax on any profits.
The finance co will pay tax on any profits.
Some of the money may eventually end up overseas with BMW.
The salesman will pay tax on any salary and/or bonus.
Second hit:
Anyone the dealer and/or salesman spend their extra profits with in the UK may potentially also feed into the UK tax system.

B.) Remitting money abroad
All the money is gone.
No tax is paid and it creates no further spending within the UK.
End of.

[Robertj21a]

iSore said:

I've dealt with Russians and Poles on various occasions.

4-5 years ago I rented a house out via an agency to a white British DHSS couple with 2 or three kids. Within 3 months there was trouble, police called out etc. Within a year the place was ruined, carpets destroyed, doors ripped off, wallpaper ruined, mouse st and a fireplace destroyed with a hammer. The usual sort of stuff you get from British white trash basically, but I found out, from the piles of opened and discarded mail that they were getting about £3000 a month between them on benefits. Letters from bailiffs showed that they'd run up four figure utility bills as well. Nice.

I haven't earned 3 grand in a month for a long time.

£4000 later the house was up for rent again. Rented it to three Polish guys who have been there for four years. Rent paid on time without fail, and they flag up any problems with the house. Good as gold really. I've sold surplus BMW bits to Polish lads too and they don't give a st about WW2 or Nazis any more than I do. I sold an engine to a Russian guy who hails from what was Stalingrad and like the Polish, they turn up, pay, have a chat and bugger off again.

We can't have it both ways - we want potatoes and trainers for bugger all but want to earn a certain wage - Eastern European labour fills the gap.

Good post. Sounds far more like the experiences I'm aware of. I'd be very happy to have Poles as my tenants.

[Murph7355]

Mrr T said:

I am not twisting facts I am pointing out the fact sending money abroad is no different from buying an imported product or even taking a holiday abroad.

The problem is your argument does not stand up.

Unless we know exactly what the indigenous worker and the recipient of the funds sent to Poland by an immigrant worker will be spending their money on. this line of "debate" is pointless.

However, surely you can acknowledge that the likelihood is more of the money that stays on shore here will be spent in ways that further benefit our own economy than a wedge of cash being sent abroad?

Equally, as we're almost certainly talking about wages at the lower end, the likelihood that the indigenous worker is buying a BMW or the Polish recipient a Land Rover is pretty small.

Assuming both of these hold out, you're really just trolling/being contrary

If you don't think they hold out, I'm all ears as to why.

[battered]

Same as if he puts it in a box under the bed. I have a load of money in a bank, nobody is screaming at me because I should have spent it to boost the UK economy. The sums of money are not worthy talking about, all this "Poles live 8 to a room and send money home" is bks, just like "Every Somalian refugee has 6 kids in a detached house in Balham and £3000 a month*". Most Poles get min wage, just how much slack do you think they could send home if they wanted to? It's not happening, in cases where money is sent home it's not worth talking about any more than if I give my Mum £20 for a dinner out.

• Of course the Somalis aren't in Balham, I wouldn't inflict Balham on anyone, even refugees.

[Murph7355]

battered said:

Same as if he puts it in a box under the bed. I have a load of money in a bank, nobody is screaming at me because I should have spent it to boost the UK economy. The sums of money are not worthy talking about, all this "Poles live 8 to a room and send money home" is bks, just like "Every Somalian refugee has 6 kids in a detached house in Balham and £3000 a month*". Most Poles get min wage, just how much slack do you think they could send home if they wanted to? It's not happening, in cases where money is sent home it's not worth talking about any more than if I give my Mum £20 for a dinner out.

• Of course the Somalis aren't in Balham, I wouldn't inflict Balham on anyone, even refugees.

Money deposited into a UK bank does (theoretically at least) get used within the economy. If only to further the ends of the UK bank...and its staff who then spend their money here.

Keeping it in a box under your bed is more arguable. Especially if you go to Magaluf with the proceedings in due course...but then you're sending it abroad

FWIW I tend to agree that the sums of money involved are likely to be non-material (though ignoring any factor on whether to employ indigenous to immigrants is a mistake, even if they are tiny).

[PH XKR]

Robertj21a said:

iSore said:

I've dealt with Russians and Poles on various occasions.

4-5 years ago I rented a house out via an agency to a white British DHSS couple with 2 or three kids. Within 3 months there was trouble, police called out etc. Within a year the place was ruined, carpets destroyed, doors ripped off, wallpaper ruined, mouse st and a fireplace destroyed with a hammer. The usual sort of stuff you get from British white trash basically, but I found out, from the piles of opened and discarded mail that they were getting about £3000 a month between them on benefits. Letters from bailiffs showed that they'd run up four figure utility bills as well. Nice.

I haven't earned 3 grand in a month for a long time.

£4000 later the house was up for rent again. Rented it to three Polish guys who have been there for four years. Rent paid on time without fail, and they flag up any problems with the house. Good as gold really. I've sold surplus BMW bits to Polish lads too and they don't give a st about WW2 or Nazis any more than I do. I sold an engine to a Russian guy who hails from what was Stalingrad and like the Polish, they turn up, pay, have a chat and bugger off again.

We can't have it both ways - we want potatoes and trainers for bugger all but want to earn a certain wage - Eastern European labour fills the gap.

Good post. Sounds far more like the experiences I'm aware of. I'd be very happy to have Poles as my tenants.

st post. We've rented to a dhss white (ffs what a cock to bring colour in) lass. Two cracking kids. House is immaculate. Conversely next door to that house, at least 7 poles always changing about, house looks a dump.

His "great post" is just a post which my post balances out. You get good and bad irrespective of race. In another of our flats we had a Russian couple who were exemplary tenants

[Mrr T]

Murph7355 said:

Mrr T said:

I am not twisting facts I am pointing out the fact sending money abroad is no different from buying an imported product or even taking a holiday abroad.

The problem is your argument does not stand up.

Unless we know exactly what the indigenous worker and the recipient of the funds sent to Poland by an immigrant worker will be spending their money on. this line of "debate" is pointless.

However, surely you can acknowledge that the likelihood is more of the money that stays on shore here will be spent in ways that further benefit our own economy than a wedge of cash being sent abroad?

Equally, as we're almost certainly talking about wages at the lower end, the likelihood that the indigenous worker is buying a BMW or the Polish recipient a Land Rover is pretty small.

Assuming both of these hold out, you're really just trolling/being contrary

If you don't think they hold out, I'm all ears as to why.

I am not trolling or being a contrarian, I am just correcting a poster who chose to post on immigrant works sending money home.

This clearly removes income earned in the UK from the UK economy.

I simply pointed out buying a BMW, an iphone or even spending a holiday abroad is no different.

I note you decided to include a comment about “wages at the lower end” even though EU immigrants are on average more intelligent than the UK average. So why not wages which are likely to be above the UK average.

[Murph7355]

Mrr T said:

I am not trolling or being a contrarian, I am just correcting a poster who chose to post on immigrant works sending money home.

This clearly removes income earned in the UK from the UK economy.

I simply pointed out buying a BMW, an iphone or even spending a holiday abroad is no different.

I note you decided to include a comment about “wages at the lower end” even though EU immigrants are on average more intelligent than the UK average. So why not wages which are likely to be above the UK average.

Do you have any statistics to note what immigrant workers earn? And even so, assuming there are numbers who earn at the lower end, then the point stands. As does the point about them being less likely to buy BMWs

Money sent abroad will contribute less to the UK economy than money kept here. Even IF it is spend on BMWs and iPhones when it's kept here. Do you believe that assertion is true or false?

[GroundEffect]

Mrr T said:

I am not trolling or being a contrarian, I am just correcting a poster who chose to post on immigrant works sending money home.

This clearly removes income earned in the UK from the UK economy.

I simply pointed out buying a BMW, an iphone or even spending a holiday abroad is no different.

I note you decided to include a comment about “wages at the lower end” even though EU immigrants are on average more intelligent than the UK average. So why not wages which are likely to be above the UK average.

Except the imported iPhone, BMW or any other product will have import duty to be paid by the importer as well as VAT on the purchase by end consumer...

[battered]

Murph7355 said:

Money sent abroad will contribute less to the UK economy than money kept here. Even IF it is spend on BMWs and iPhones when it's kept here. Do you believe that assertion is true or false?

It doesn't matter! It's 3 tenths of sod-all. We may as well argue about the money down the back of my sofa (£1.31 last time I looked). It's not worth talking about, it's like me worrying about whether to buy normal olives at 75p a jar or the fancy ones for £1.29. Ooh, hang on though, that could add up, after all, I might go through a jar a month. Jeez.

[iSore]

PH XKR said:

You get good and bad irrespective of race.

Never knew that - thanks!

Listen; We all know that people are the same where ever you go - there is good and bad in everyone. We learn to live, we learn to give each other what we need to survive - together alive.

[anonymous-user]

When these company bosses say "Can't get British workers to do the job" and the firm has been around over 20 years somebody was doing the job before the migrants came on mass, so it's really a tight fisted boss after cheap labour as far as I can see.

[Vaud]

Raygun said:

When these company bosses say "Can't get British workers to do the job" and the firm has been around over 20 years somebody was doing the job before the migrants came on mass, so it's really a tight fisted boss after cheap labour as far as I can see.

We struggle to recruit in some areas.

Well skilled, well paid jobs (we pay upper 50% and upper quartile in pay for some, in the 50k-100k range), graduate and post graduate with experience. So no "cheap labour"

It's well-skilled Poles, Germans, Dutch, some Swedes/Norwegians and Americans applying and that tend to have the edge in education, experience, and to be honest in many cases, attitude. Plus they are multilingual.

Interestingly the main cohort of "British" roles that we are seeing some good interest in is in 16-18 age group.

So maybe the failing is more in post 16 education in the UK and an entitled generation?