Labour self-destruction
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
Is the "left/right" split now an obsolete concept?
Until recently I wouldn't have said yes. But now, I think It is rapidly becoming obsolete. We've seen since 2010 a move to the centre at GEs: a coalition with no clear majority party, then a narrow majority that frankly has been flattered by the absence of an effective opposition. In the 1970s the country swung back and forth from left to right visa minority administrations, without little conviction either way, Ultimately a strong leader from the right broke that pattern, and it took a strong modernising leader from the left to swing the pendulum back the other way.
We don't have a strong leader from either side right now. Nor is there anyone on the horizon. Boris's experience of high office is being the London Mayor. In reality that's PR and transport (bus and cycle lanes in particular). May could be a steadying hand, but she doesn't look the finished article and age is not on her side. Benn on the left is perhaps too young; David Miliband I fear has a bit of the James Dean syndrome to him (considered far better than he was, or could ever be, because his career was cut short before proof of that emerged). There may be others, but they are further down the lists.
Moreover, both parties have the same massive fault line running through them: Europe. The fault line in the Conservatives has been obvious for 30+ years, but now we can see there's one in the Labour party too. Perhaps less so in its MPs than in its grass roots voters, but it is there nonetheless.
So what you now have, as I see it, is two parties built around competing concepts that have been superseded. The mood of the country is, and has been for a while, much more focused on the middle of the spectrum than either end of it.
(Why haven't the LDs been the ruling party then? They fall between the two stools of the traditional big two, and because there is a big two, they are the little third one - the oddball choice. Start with a blank sheet, make the extremes of left and right the oddball choices, and you change the rules of the game completely).
Will things change? I doubt it. But...
Greg66 said:
If the pro-EU Labour MPs and the pro-EU Conservative MPs had the courage to all defect into a new, centrist, pro-EU party, they'd have >300 MPs on day 1 and most likely at least that after a snap GE. The hard left and hard right would be marginalized for a generation or more.
It is a pleasant daydream to think that they might overcome their party lines to move the country forward in this way.
But they would still be losers! It is a pleasant daydream to think that they might overcome their party lines to move the country forward in this way.
We had a vote, the majority voted to leave so that is what we need to do!
You cannot choose to have democracy only until you don't like the result!
Right or wrong the result is what the majority of those who voted wanted - or are you some sort of special case like the unelected EU glitterati that the Leave voters have no time for? Move on please.
Robertj21a said:
Hear Hear, let's move on a bit more......
As this thread is all about Labour, does Corbyn even have enough 'quality' MPs to fill the massive gaps now evident in his cabinet ?.
Nope! Not ones who would be willing anyway, his goose is cooked - why associate yourself with that?As this thread is all about Labour, does Corbyn even have enough 'quality' MPs to fill the massive gaps now evident in his cabinet ?.
Axionknight said:
Robertj21a said:
Hear Hear, let's move on a bit more......
As this thread is all about Labour, does Corbyn even have enough 'quality' MPs to fill the massive gaps now evident in his cabinet ?.
Nope! Not ones who would be willing anyway, his goose is cooked - why associate yourself with that?As this thread is all about Labour, does Corbyn even have enough 'quality' MPs to fill the massive gaps now evident in his cabinet ?.
PHers are criticizing Corbyn for being a Eurosceptic who voted to stay in the EU and say that will work against him. I can't see that being as bad a blot as being a Europhile who voted for anarchy and now doesn't want the job.
Either way we're f
ked. We need a cross party war cabinet. Instead we'll get a government who will sell us to anyone who wants a piece, and an opposition who are more interested in who sits in the big deckchair than the sinking ship.Mr Tidy said:
Greg66 said:
If the pro-EU Labour MPs and the pro-EU Conservative MPs had the courage to all defect into a new, centrist, pro-EU party, they'd have >300 MPs on day 1 and most likely at least that after a snap GE. The hard left and hard right would be marginalized for a generation or more.
It is a pleasant daydream to think that they might overcome their party lines to move the country forward in this way.
But they would still be losers! It is a pleasant daydream to think that they might overcome their party lines to move the country forward in this way.
We had a vote, the majority voted to leave so that is what we need to do!
You cannot choose to have democracy only until you don't like the result!
Right or wrong the result is what the majority of those who voted wanted - or are you some sort of special case like the unelected EU glitterati that the Leave voters have no time for? Move on please.
Talk about barefaced hypocrisy.
glazbagun said:
Axionknight said:
Robertj21a said:
Hear Hear, let's move on a bit more......
As this thread is all about Labour, does Corbyn even have enough 'quality' MPs to fill the massive gaps now evident in his cabinet ?.
Nope! Not ones who would be willing anyway, his goose is cooked - why associate yourself with that?As this thread is all about Labour, does Corbyn even have enough 'quality' MPs to fill the massive gaps now evident in his cabinet ?.
PHers are criticizing Corbyn for being a Eurosceptic who voted to stay in the EU and say that will work against him. I can't see that being as bad a blot as being a Europhile who voted for anarchy and now doesn't want the job.
Either way we're f
ked. We need a cross party war cabinet. Instead we'll get a government who will sell us to anyone who wants a piece, and an opposition who are more interested in who sits in the big deckchair than the sinking ship.
Corbyn is a lame Duck or a Ostrich with his head in the sand.
He has to go if the Labour party have any change if there is a next election.His lacklustre performance during the referendum campaign stood out a mile.Half harted comments and no conviction when he spoke.
Benn would have been a good candidate for the leadership but his ship has sailed or not?
He has to go if the Labour party have any change if there is a next election.His lacklustre performance during the referendum campaign stood out a mile.Half harted comments and no conviction when he spoke.
Benn would have been a good candidate for the leadership but his ship has sailed or not?
pim said:
Corbyn is a lame Duck or a Ostrich with his head in the sand.
He has to go if the Labour party have any change if there is a next election.His lacklustre performance during the referendum campaign stood out a mile.Half harted comments and no conviction when he spoke.
Benn would have been a good candidate for the leadership but his ship has sailed or not?
Benn is a statesman, a gentleman and has integrity. No ambitions to be leader, but would make a great no2. He has to go if the Labour party have any change if there is a next election.His lacklustre performance during the referendum campaign stood out a mile.Half harted comments and no conviction when he spoke.
Benn would have been a good candidate for the leadership but his ship has sailed or not?
Dear God not Burnham, total lightweight.
Would be nice to see a new model of "leadership" with a proper cabinet again.
This is the legacy of David Milliband, he allowed himself to be persuaded to change the leadership rules for election and this has ultimately caused the problems of having a Labour Leader that the PLP don't want and can't work with.
Hattie Jacques is probably the best suggestion on this thread
Would be nice to see a new model of "leadership" with a proper cabinet again.
This is the legacy of David Milliband, he allowed himself to be persuaded to change the leadership rules for election and this has ultimately caused the problems of having a Labour Leader that the PLP don't want and can't work with.
Hattie Jacques is probably the best suggestion on this thread
https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/74734074578734...
"Senior eurosceptic Tory has just told me: 'if Corbyn stays we're definitely having an election'"
"Senior eurosceptic Tory has just told me: 'if Corbyn stays we're definitely having an election'"
This is gonna make Hunt look like a political god.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff