Would you change your Ref vote if you could go back time?

[MarshPhantom]

No - voted remain.

[///ajd]

Robertj21a said:

///ajd said:

Seems that way.

It seems likely the democratic will of the UK has already probably changed its mind.

Given a fair proportion (but not all) have voted on the basis of some pretty big whoppers, their change of heart would be decisive, and the stakes are pretty high here - I'm not so sure why a re-vote is being so clearly ruled out as undemocratic. Another vote would be democratic. And it is not the case of keep voting until you get the answer you want - its a case of "oh dear even the supporters of leave are going "oh fck"".

I see that you are conveniently forgetting about all those Remainers who thought matters affecting them would be only holiday money or the lack of phone roaming charges. They're probably the very same ones who will be quick to moan when immigrants move in next door.

Already widely confirmed that immigration won't materially change as the leave lies are hastily retracted.

I can imagine you don't feel in any way betrayed about that.

[JoeMarano]

The media is clearly on the government's side here that's what I think anyway. It's been all negative since it happened.

[///ajd]

JoeMarano said:

The media is clearly on the government's side here that's what I think anyway. It's been all negative since it happened.

Is that just the medias fault or is the whole thing an omnishambles?

Do the global markets just do what the BBC reckon?

[MarshPhantom]

JoeMarano said:

The media is clearly on the government's side here that's what I think anyway. It's been all negative since it happened.

It's all been negative because it's all been negative since it happened. Can you list any positives?

[Pan Pan Pan]

Just waiting for the collapse of the EU, I cannot see Germany wanting (or even being able to in the medium term) to fund the EU project on its own for very long, now that the EU`s second largest contributor of funds INTO EU coffers is leaving.
When the basket case economies with colossal levels of unemployment start asking for more multi billion pound bail outs, where are they going to get the cash from? Just a matter of when, not if the EU will collapse, and fortunately the UK has already launched its lifeboat. The UK may not reach where it wants to go in its lifeboat, but at least it has not irrevocably chained itself to the corrupt, rotting, sinking SS EU.

[PorkInsider]

MarshPhantom said:

JoeMarano said:

The media is clearly on the government's side here that's what I think anyway. It's been all negative since it happened.

It's all been negative because it's all been negative since it happened. Can you list any positives?

Absolutely this ^

What is it that people think should be reported as positive?

[Pan Pan Pan]

PorkInsider said:

MarshPhantom said:

JoeMarano said:

The media is clearly on the government's side here that's what I think anyway. It's been all negative since it happened.

It's all been negative because it's all been negative since it happened. Can you list any positives?

Absolutely this ^

What is it that people think should be reported as positive?

Hard to find anything positive to say about the EU either, perhaps we just live in negative times, and people are trying to out negative eachother?

[Otispunkmeyer]

bloomen said:

Voted remain. Still would. Not because I love the EU but because the status quo is adequate enough and considerably more adequate than how the nearish future will end up.

As the reality, or total lack thereof from both sides, roll in it's not getting prettier any time soon.

And I'm enjoying the wailing from the young folks. The little sts should've actually voted. There's a hard lesson for them.

Why are people so convinced of the future? Do they have a crystal ball? Can you tell me next week's lottery result?

Whilst leave = Doom and stay = good are valid predictions, they're just that. Predictions. Whether we stay or leave the banks could fk it for us all just as easily IMO. And what if, after staying, in 5 years time we've fully signed up and ditched the pound for the euro? What then? Is that still good?

No one can know the future, it's by definition uncertain. Stop being afraid of it.

[Mario149]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Which would require treaty change etc etc, all of which any EU member can veto. Even Poland doesn't want it by the sounds of that article. Non story.

[Camoradi]

AJL308 said:

I'm coming around to the idea that there should be some form of intelligence test before someone is allowed to vote. Seriously.

I have no idea how you would implement it but it surely can't be beyond the wit of us to come up with something?

I'm sure you are not suggesting discrimination against mentally handicapped people above, but it could be taken that way.

What about intelligent but uninformed people?

I'd prefer to get rid of the politicians and media who spread the misinformation during the campaign, and for years before. Tackle the problem at source, as it were.

[Mario149]

Otispunkmeyer said:

bloomen said:

Voted remain. Still would. Not because I love the EU but because the status quo is adequate enough and considerably more adequate than how the nearish future will end up.

As the reality, or total lack thereof from both sides, roll in it's not getting prettier any time soon.

And I'm enjoying the wailing from the young folks. The little sts should've actually voted. There's a hard lesson for them.

Why are people so convinced of the future? Do they have a crystal ball? Can you tell me next week's lottery result?

Whilst leave = Doom and stay = good are valid predictions, they're just that. Predictions. Whether we stay or leave the banks could fk it for us all just as easily IMO. And what if, after staying, in 5 years time we've fully signed up and ditched the pound for the euro? What then? Is that still good?

No one can know the future, it's by definition uncertain. Stop being afraid of it.

No one can predict the far future which is when we may or may not benefit from staying in or out of the EU. We can try and model it and show potential outcomes but of course no one knows. If they can say theyre lying. But what we do know is that now, and for the next few years, we're going to pay a price for leaving, or even just saying we're going to leave - that has started to happen now and will continue. We, and pretty much the rest of the world as it happens, are right now paying a price for a "gamble", when we could just take the "gamble" without the initial price. All the extra cost is giving us is *possibly* some limitation of movement, but it's looking unlikely, and some notion of having more sovereignty which the average person in the street is never going to notice. I can't help but get the impression that some brexisters accuse remainers of having a crystal ball, but are then happy to claim that we are of course going to be better off out in the future. It's like some group level cognitive dissonance. Or maybe some brexiteers have the crystal ball monopoly, I don't know.

[InfiniteVoltage]

What this thread tells me is that if a 2nd referendum were to happen the UK would vote remain, given the same choice on the ballot.
(Assuming of course that PH is a typical cross section of the public - which it most probably isn't. But for the sake of argument...)

The winning percentage of the referendum was 3.784%

This PH poll (at time of writing this post) shows a shift of 6% towards remain.


And I think this may be wider reflected up and down the UK.
But what I have said in previous posts/threads is that should democracy just be a single snap shot in time, especially for something as important for people's future as this vote was?

[MarshPhantom]

VolvoT5 said:

I think a lot of brexiters may change their mind over the next few weeks as the economy starts to go totally tits up.

Yes, people seem to think the worst is over.

[lostkiwi]

MarshPhantom said:

VolvoT5 said:

I think a lot of brexiters may change their mind over the next few weeks as the economy starts to go totally tits up.

Yes, people seem to think the worst is over.

The big hit has yet to come. At the moment nothing has changed other than a few folk saying we want out of the EU.
Once Article 50 is invoked.....

[MarshPhantom]

Pan Pan Pan said:

PorkInsider said:

MarshPhantom said:

JoeMarano said:

The media is clearly on the government's side here that's what I think anyway. It's been all negative since it happened.

It's all been negative because it's all been negative since it happened. Can you list any positives?

Absolutely this ^

What is it that people think should be reported as positive?

Hard to find anything positive to say about the EU either, perhaps we just live in negative times, and people are trying to out negative eachother?

You may not like the EU, can you not even admit the damage that has been caused by leaving?

[otolith]

Eric Mc said:

Or maybe the time in the lead up to the referendum should have been spent educating people rather than engaging in facile and downright imbecilic argument.

This, in spades. Both sides indulged in Blair style dodgy-dossier politics - acting like greasy lawyers in a cheap courtroom drama with the intent to win by any means.

[MarshPhantom]

otolith said:

Eric Mc said:

Or maybe the time in the lead up to the referendum should have been spent educating people rather than engaging in facile and downright imbecilic argument.

This, in spades. Both sides indulged in Blair style dodgy-dossier politics - acting like greasy lawyers in a cheap courtroom drama with the intent to win by any means.

True, but it turned out Remain were telling the truth and Leave lied about everything.

Strange that.

[anonymous-user]

MarshPhantom said:

it turned out Remain were telling the truth

[Mario149]

Question just popped into my head: which is the worse democratic betrayal?

1) Ignoring the result of the referendum and staying because it can be seen that a majority no longer support the result

2) Following through on the referendum and leaving, but not delivering any of the promises used to secure that victory.