The economic consequences of Brexit

[steveatesh]

Digga said:

What worries me is an attitude that's there with a number of Remainers. I have a good friend who, despite working in banking (well IT bit, at any rate, but at least he knows not all bankers are evil and that financial services are important to the UK) is fairly left win and was fiercely opposed to Brexit.

Now that - leftism an Brexit opposition - are fine and I can understand that, but there's an almost petulant undercurrent of determination to prove Brexit is a disaster. It really is a perfect example of cutting of your nose to spite your face. It is worrying, because this attitude will be a dead weight to any progress and won't help Remainers get the best from the developing situation if they refuse to have any input.

Some people give up an awful lot of happiness in order to be proved right!

[turbobloke]

steveatesh said:

Digga said:

What worries me is an attitude that's there with a number of Remainers. I have a good friend who, despite working in banking (well IT bit, at any rate, but at least he knows not all bankers are evil and that financial services are important to the UK) is fairly left win and was fiercely opposed to Brexit.

Now that - leftism an Brexit opposition - are fine and I can understand that, but there's an almost petulant undercurrent of determination to prove Brexit is a disaster. It really is a perfect example of cutting of your nose to spite your face. It is worrying, because this attitude will be a dead weight to any progress and won't help Remainers get the best from the developing situation if they refuse to have any input.

Some people give up an awful lot of happiness in order to be proved right!

Then when it doesn't work they can give up even more happiness after being proved wrong!

Self-inflicted, like the EUrodrones looking at the UK referendum result.

[PurpleMoonlight]

Digga said:

Now that - leftism an Brexit opposition - are fine and I can understand that, but there's an almost petulant undercurrent of determination to prove Brexit is a disaster. It really is a perfect example of cutting of your nose to spite your face. It is worrying, because this attitude will be a dead weight to any progress and won't help Remainers get the best from the developing situation if they refuse to have any input.

I think the opposite.

It is the leaver that refuse to accept the consequences of their actions, and instead seek to blame the remainers for negativity and it is that which is affecting the economy.

Classic guilt transference.

[powerstroke]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Digga said:

Now that - leftism an Brexit opposition - are fine and I can understand that, but there's an almost petulant undercurrent of determination to prove Brexit is a disaster. It really is a perfect example of cutting of your nose to spite your face. It is worrying, because this attitude will be a dead weight to any progress and won't help Remainers get the best from the developing situation if they refuse to have any input.

I think the opposite.

It is the leaver that refuse to accept the consequences of their actions, and instead seek to blame the remainers for negativity and it is that which is affecting the economy.

Classic guilt transference.

Classic sore loser more like , anyway this obsession with money growth and GDP , lets stop worrying about that st and think about quality of life , sadly this country is a over crowded gridlocked st hole for a lot of us due to our growth at all costs way of doing things , if the economy slows to a more sustanible pace and we can stop carpeting everwhere with horrible match box houses and nasty identikit retail parks then GOOD....

[anonymous-user]

powerstroke said:

Classic sore loser more like , anyway this obsession with money growth and GDP , lets stop worrying about that st and think about quality of life , sadly this country is a over crowded gridlocked st hole for a lot of us due to our growth at all costs way of doing things , if the economy slows to a more sustanible pace and we can stop carpeting everwhere with horrible match box houses and nasty identikit retail parks then GOOD....

http://m.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/economic-growth-is-bks-and-we-dont-need-it-say-brexiters-20160720111113

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 23 July 13:45

[Cobnapint]

Randy Winkman said:

Marvelous new from The Express. And even better news from them today:

I've never understood why rocketing house prices are seen as a good thing. They are only good in three situations - you are downsizing; you are the recipient of your parents house in a will that you intend to sell on; or you are a property tycoon.

Otherwise, if you are buying it means you've got to borrow/spend more. If you are a ftb it makes it even more difficult than it was in the first place to get on the housing ladder. And if you are upsizing, presuming the house you are moving to has risen by the same percentage, it too will be more expensive than it previously was.

[anonymous-user]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Digga said:

Now that - leftism an Brexit opposition - are fine and I can understand that, but there's an almost petulant undercurrent of determination to prove Brexit is a disaster. It really is a perfect example of cutting of your nose to spite your face. It is worrying, because this attitude will be a dead weight to any progress and won't help Remainers get the best from the developing situation if they refuse to have any input.

I think the opposite.

It is the leaver that refuse to accept the consequences of their actions, and instead seek to blame the remainers for negativity and it is that which is affecting the economy.

Classic guilt transference.

I agree, people want to leave and they win, they look around for affirmation of their decision and see nothing but negativity, even reports suggesting people who shared their view were less educated, old, lower social economic groups etc. This was always going to be the reality of voting against the experts and voting for more uncertainty (than remaining).

its unreasonable to vote to leave the EU and expect everyone to suddenly think it was a good idea and get behind it. The reason there's so much negativity in the media is because most of the experts and people who know about the economy didn't want to leave.

[powerstroke]

el stovey said:

I agree, people want to leave and they win, they look around for affirmation of their decision and see nothing but negativity, even reports suggesting people who shared their view were less educated, old, lower social economic groups etc. This was always going to be the reality of voting against the experts and voting for more uncertainty (than remaining).

its unreasonable to vote to leave the EU and expect everyone to suddenly think it was a good idea and get behind it. The reason there's so much negativity in the media is because most of the experts and people who know about the economy didn't want to leave.

They will be really upset when we pick up the ball and while the EU is worrying about keeping all the members and vested interests happy, we sign some real trade deals!!!! We have done the right thing Brexit rocks .....country is going places the world beckons ....

[Derek Smith]

el stovey said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

Digga said:

Now that - leftism an Brexit opposition - are fine and I can understand that, but there's an almost petulant undercurrent of determination to prove Brexit is a disaster. It really is a perfect example of cutting of your nose to spite your face. It is worrying, because this attitude will be a dead weight to any progress and won't help Remainers get the best from the developing situation if they refuse to have any input.

I think the opposite.

It is the leaver that refuse to accept the consequences of their actions, and instead seek to blame the remainers for negativity and it is that which is affecting the economy.

Classic guilt transference.

I agree, people want to leave and they win, they look around for affirmation of their decision and see nothing but negativity, even reports suggesting people who shared their view were less educated, old, lower social economic groups etc. This was always going to be the reality of voting against the experts and voting for more uncertainty (than remaining).

its unreasonable to vote to leave the EU and expect everyone to suddenly think it was a good idea and get behind it. The reason there's so much negativity in the media is because most of the experts and people who know about the economy didn't want to leave.

We all have to get behind it now I suppose, but how? It seems that not posting comments about the economic cost of exit is an essential. We all must turn a blind eye.

However, there is no point in complaining. We must make the best of it, but whistling isn't going to help. Nor is triumphalism.

Complaining is pointless. For one thing the results of exit are not happening now. We've got to look 2, 4, 8 years to the future. The problem there though is that no one has any idea of what might happen. We cannot know anything until the negotiations of exit have been concluded. Even then, the reaction might not be immediate.

I still think leaving was a bad idea, but there is no point is arguing.

The worry is that the negotiations might well, well they will, come up with a result that pleases very few. This will hurt May and the government. There is an election coming up in less than 4 years. The odd thing is that the major economic consequence of an exit might be political.

[speedy_thrills]

powerstroke said:

Classic sore loser more like , anyway this obsession with money growth and GDP , lets stop worrying about that st and think about quality of life...

Conservative governments traditionally measure their success in economic and income growth rather than social progress goals. While I agree with you presently the ONS doesn't even record much data on happiness and in most international surveys the UK doesn't rank well. In Europe it's the Northern Europeans up in Scandinavia who collectively do best...smug bds . What makes the Scandinavians so bloody happy anyway? They have been given every opportunity to wallow in misery but instead taunt us with their excellent social services, progressive society and high standard of living.


Incidentally I saw the latest PMI numbers but PMI is a survey not a direct measure of economic performance and no one who was paying even vague attention can say they didn't expect economic contraction when most credible sources where forecasting exactly that.

[Mario149]

Digga said:

turbobloke said:

Not just your workplace.

The approach of talk-down beeb and their paper chums is basically trying to achieve this in anyone gullible enough:



They were on the losing side of the debate (again, a habit perhaps after May 2015) the end of western political civilisation hasn't arrived before WW3, and they're mischievously/dangerously/disloyally agitating for negativity.

What the beeb needs now is a hat-trick with Trump as potus.

What worries me is an attitude that's there with a number of Remainers. I have a good friend who, despite working in banking (well IT bit, at any rate, but at least he knows not all bankers are evil and that financial services are important to the UK) is fairly left win and was fiercely opposed to Brexit.

Now that - leftism an Brexit opposition - are fine and I can understand that, but there's an almost petulant undercurrent of determination to prove Brexit is a disaster. It really is a perfect example of cutting of your nose to spite your face. It is worrying, because this attitude will be a dead weight to any progress and won't help Remainers get the best from the developing situation if they refuse to have any input.

I disagree, I mostly see Remainers highlighting the economic warning signs and pointing out that this was largely predicted.

Frankly, I don't feel the need to get on board and try to make Brexit a goer or pretend that I think everything is going to be fine. And if I can help show that it's a bad idea such that it may in some small way help to prevent us Leaving, I will. The Leave decision was made by other people, it was not what I wanted, so the onus is on them to get on with it and fix it themselves. I'll just continue and make sure me and mine are all right, worst case scenario we pack up here and go semi-retire somewhere nice.

I don't like to wish ill on anyone, but if we are going to have an economic downturn as it seems we will, I do hope the areas that voted most Leave when they were most dependent on the EU (we've all seen the charts) with the leats immigrants bear the brunt of it and get suitably shafted for their decision, and I hope the media rub it in. Callous? Maybe. But being of very mixed European origin myself and only happening to be born here making me British, I see the UK's vote to leave as a petulant (to re-use Digga's word from above) child not wanting to play anymore despite the fact they had all the best toys. Frankly, my identity of how I felt British, and more importantly British in the context of Europe, changed permanently on the morning of the referendum. What I thought it was to be British was clearly not what many others thought. Which is fine, maybe they're right and I had it wrong all along, but I of course like to think that's not the case! But nevertheless, as a result there are 17M+ people in the country who before the referendum I thought basically shared my values but as it turns out don't. That's 17M+ people who I really don't much care what happens to anymore as a consequence of Brexit so long as me and mine are all right. Fvck 'em. Which funnily enough is probably how most of Europe feels about the UK now as well incidentally.

Edited by marshalla on Saturday 23 July 11:38

[Dr Jekyll]

Mario149 said:

I see the UK's vote to leave as a petulant (to re-use Digga's word from above) child not wanting to play anymore despite the fact they had all the best toys.

By what possible stretch of the imagination did the UK, a net contributor, have the 'best toys'?

It's more a case of the kid who used to cower in the corner of the playground while all the bullies queued up the kick the crap out of him. Now he's decided to leave they aren't sure whether to celebrate the fact they drove him out or be annoyed they can't bash him quite so easily.

[don'tbesilly]

Mario149 said:

Digga said:

turbobloke said:

Not just your workplace.

The approach of talk-down beeb and their paper chums is basically trying to achieve this in anyone gullible enough:



They were on the losing side of the debate (again, a habit perhaps after May 2015) the end of western political civilisation hasn't arrived before WW3, and they're mischievously/dangerously/disloyally agitating for negativity.

What the beeb needs now is a hat-trick with Trump as potus.

What worries me is an attitude that's there with a number of Remainers. I have a good friend who, despite working in banking (well IT bit, at any rate, but at least he knows not all bankers are evil and that financial services are important to the UK) is fairly left win and was fiercely opposed to Brexit.

Now that - leftism an Brexit opposition - are fine and I can understand that, but there's an almost petulant undercurrent of determination to prove Brexit is a disaster. It really is a perfect example of cutting of your nose to spite your face. It is worrying, because this attitude will be a dead weight to any progress and won't help Remainers get the best from the developing situation if they refuse to have any input.

I disagree, I mostly see Remainers highlighting the economic warning signs and pointing out that this was largely predicted.

Frankly, I don't feel the need to get on board and try to make Brexit a goer or pretend that I think everything is going to be fine. And if I can help show that it's a bad idea such that it may in some small way help to prevent us Leaving, I will. The Leave decision was made by other people, it was not what I wanted, so the onus is on them to get on with it and fix it themselves. I'll just continue and make sure me and mine are all right, worst case scenario we pack up here and go semi-retire somewhere nice.

I don't like to wish ill on anyone, but if we are going to have an economic downturn as it seems we will, I do hope the areas that voted most Leave when they were most dependent on the EU (we've all seen the charts) with the leats immigrants bear the brunt of it and get suitably shafted for their decision, and I hope the media rub it in. Callous? Maybe. But being of very mixed European origin myself and only happening to be born here making me British, I see the UK's vote to leave as a petulant (to re-use Digga's word from above) child not wanting to play anymore despite the fact they had all the best toys. Frankly, my identity of how I felt British, and more importantly British in the context of Europe, changed permanently on the morning of the referendum. What I thought it was to be British was clearly not what many others thought. Which is fine, maybe they're right and I had it wrong all along, but I of course like to think that's not the case! But nevertheless, as a result there are 17M+ people in the country who before the referendum I thought basically shared my values but as it turns out don't. That's 17M+ people who I really don't much care what happens to anymore as a consequence of Brexit so long as me and mine are all right. Fvck 'em. Which funnily enough is probably how most of Europe feels about the UK now as well incidentally.

Goodbye

PS: Don't bother with a postcard.

Edited by marshalla on Saturday 23 July 11:38

[Digga]

Mario149 said:

I disagree, I mostly see Remainers highlighting the economic warning signs and pointing out that this was largely predicted.

Frankly, I don't feel the need to get on board and try to make Brexit a goer or pretend that I think everything is going to be fine. And if I can help show that it's a bad idea such that it may in some small way help to prevent us Leaving, I will. The Leave decision was made by other people, it was not what I wanted, so the onus is on them to get on with it and fix it themselves...

We're all sleeping in the same bed here; it's YOUR own bed you're stting with that utterly contemptible attitude.

In what possible way are we now NOT leaving?! Brexit means Brexit, not faff and funny around in a strop until someone says oh well, okay then, not gone too well has it, so let's just go back to the UK in the EU again. That chances of that outcome are infinitesimally small. Meanwhile, in the real world, we can all - if we so choose - help form the best realistic way forward.

I really find it hilarious that so many people viewed this as such a binary event. There were Remainers with severe misgivings about both the EU and immigration, which there were leavers keen to stay as close and cooperative as possible with our European friends and neighbours, and also very much against the less tolerant end of the leave campaign. Compromises abound, that's life.

No one pretended there would be no consequences of Brexit, but it was a decision to metaphorically die on our feet rather than live on our knees. As others say, using immigration to crudely fill in demographic holes and boost up GDP dud not do much for the country's struggling infrastructure and clearly, the majority did not feel it did much for them either.

I find the attitude of some Remainers exasperatingly ridiculous. The only parallel I've ever seen was having to haul a bloke with severe exhaustion off a mountain in a whiteout - he was so scared of dying up the that, bizarrely, left to his own devices (we had to remove his pack and manhandle him down the descent) he'd have sat down and died there. Infected by the fear of your own propaganda.

[jjlynn27]

cookie118 said:

powerstroke said:

Classic sore loser more like , anyway this obsession with money growth and GDP , lets stop worrying about that st and think about quality of life , sadly this country is a over crowded gridlocked st hole for a lot of us due to our growth at all costs way of doing things , if the economy slows to a more sustanible pace and we can stop carpeting everwhere with horrible match box houses and nasty identikit retail parks then GOOD....

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/economi...

Your link didn't work (maybe space at the end) but LOL.

eta: quotes

Edited by jjlynn27 on Saturday 23 July 11:51

[PurpleMoonlight]

Digga said:

No one pretended there would be no consequences of Brexit, but it was a decision to metaphorically die on our feet rather than live on our knees.

Yet you want the people who voted not to metaphorically die to now be happy about being forced to do so? That is incredibly naïve

I fully expect those who didn't want to leave the EU to be unhappy about it for some considerable time, and that is a considerable proportion of the population.

[sidicks]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Yet you want the people who voted not to metaphorically die to now be happy about being forced to do so? That is incredibly naïve

I fully expect those who didn't want to leave the EU to be unhappy about it for some considerable time, and that is a considerable proportion of the population.

I expect them to be unhappy / disappointed.

I don't expect them to act so as to negatively impact the future (and present).

[Elysium]

el stovey said:

I agree, people want to leave and they win, they look around for affirmation of their decision and see nothing but negativity, even reports suggesting people who shared their view were less educated, old, lower social economic groups etc. This was always going to be the reality of voting against the experts and voting for more uncertainty (than remaining).

its unreasonable to vote to leave the EU and expect everyone to suddenly think it was a good idea and get behind it. The reason there's so much negativity in the media is because most of the experts and people who know about the economy didn't want to leave.

Quite - there is a lot of this attitude about.

[PurpleMoonlight]

sidicks said:

I expect them to be unhappy / disappointed.

I don't expect them to act so as to negatively impact the future (and present).

Do you not see the irony in that?

[sidicks]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Do you not see the irony in that?

No.

There are plenty of things I'm not happy about, but I make the best of what exists..