The economic consequences of Brexit
Poll: The economic consequences of Brexit
Total Members Polled: 732
Discussion
PurpleMoonlight said:
Digga said:
No one pretended there would be no consequences of Brexit, but it was a decision to metaphorically die on our feet rather than live on our knees.
Yet you want the people who voted not to metaphorically die to now be happy about being forced to do so? That is incredibly naïve I fully expect those who didn't want to leave the EU to be unhappy about it for some considerable time, and that is a considerable proportion of the population.
). Record employment, even at the bottom end you now have NMW (don't know much about it, but it's there). But yes, some brux t
t telling us that we have to buy low power fvcking hoover = being on our knees. Metaphorically or otherwise, it's just bonkers. 'on our knees'
PurpleMoonlight said:
sidicks said:
I expect them to be unhappy / disappointed.
I don't expect them to act so as to negatively impact the future (and present).
Do you not see the irony in that?I don't expect them to act so as to negatively impact the future (and present).
It's your own time you're wasting, but that attitude will do none of us any good. Man up.
Digga said:
So because the majority voted once and you disagree, you're now going to take no further active part in making future decisions and outcomes better, and, might even consider sabotaging them to prove a point that is now moot?
It's your own time you're wasting, but that attitude will do none of us any good. Man up.
Why do you think that people who didn't vote for the mess that has been created will be eager to assist in clearing it up?It's your own time you're wasting, but that attitude will do none of us any good. Man up.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Why do you think that people who didn't vote for the mess that has been created will be eager to assist in clearing it up?
Also, unfortunately those are the people who will be directly responsible for making it work -the ones who didn't want it. It's like forcing a CEO to act in a way which he/she thinks is bad for their business. Then complaining that they aren't more positive about it.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Why do you think that people who didn't vote for the mess that has been created will be eager to assist in clearing it up?
It directly affects their future prosperity. By acting like a spoiled child who didn't get their way they punish themselves as much as those they see are "to blame". Only once the country gets over its current "petted lip" syndrome and related negativity will we get a true picture of how successful or otherwise the country can be in this new reality.PurpleMoonlight said:
. . . .
I fully expect those who didn't want to leave the EU to be unhappy about it for some considerable time, and that is a considerable proportion of the population.
Worse considering that it's largely the people in government and those running businesses and those with jobs and starting careers vs those retired and unemployed. I fully expect those who didn't want to leave the EU to be unhappy about it for some considerable time, and that is a considerable proportion of the population.
Like it or not, the fact is, the remain group are much more influential in the success of the economy than brexiters in general.
It's hardly surprising there's so much negativity around.
GreigM said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Why do you think that people who didn't vote for the mess that has been created will be eager to assist in clearing it up?
It directly affects their future prosperity. By acting like a spoiled child who didn't get their way they punish themselves as much as those they see are "to blame". Only once the country gets over its current "petted lip" syndrome and related negativity will we get a true picture of how successful or otherwise the country can be in this new reality."On our knees"; a significant number of those who voted to leave, as well as some who voted to remain feel the EU has become undemocratic and was steamrollering over the wishes of sovereign government and public alike.
Derek Smith said:
We all have to get behind it now I suppose, but how? It seems that not posting comments about the economic cost of exit is an essential. We all must turn a blind eye.
However, there is no point in complaining. We must make the best of it, but whistling isn't going to help. Nor is triumphalism.
Complaining is pointless. For one thing the results of exit are not happening now. We've got to look 2, 4, 8 years to the future. The problem there though is that no one has any idea of what might happen. We cannot know anything until the negotiations of exit have been concluded. Even then, the reaction might not be immediate.
I still think leaving was a bad idea, but there is no point is arguing.
The worry is that the negotiations might well, well they will, come up with a result that pleases very few. This will hurt May and the government. There is an election coming up in less than 4 years. The odd thing is that the major economic consequence of an exit might be political.
This - and especially the last sentence.However, there is no point in complaining. We must make the best of it, but whistling isn't going to help. Nor is triumphalism.
Complaining is pointless. For one thing the results of exit are not happening now. We've got to look 2, 4, 8 years to the future. The problem there though is that no one has any idea of what might happen. We cannot know anything until the negotiations of exit have been concluded. Even then, the reaction might not be immediate.
I still think leaving was a bad idea, but there is no point is arguing.
The worry is that the negotiations might well, well they will, come up with a result that pleases very few. This will hurt May and the government. There is an election coming up in less than 4 years. The odd thing is that the major economic consequence of an exit might be political.
We keep being told that "Brexit means Brexit." Leaving to one side the fact that we have all heard of politicians promising things that they don't always deliver, Brexit means different things to different people.
To some, Brexit means an end to immigration. They are going to be bitterly disappointed no matter what deal is finally agreed.
To others, Brexit means "getting our country back." They are not going to be best pleased when the realisation dawns that "having your country back" feels little different - if different at all - to being "ruled from Brussels" (whatever that was ever supposed to mean)
To another group, Brexit means an increase in trade with the rest of the world. It might happen, it might not, it is certainly too early to say at the moment, but what difference will this make one way or the other to the man on the Clapham omnibus as he goes about his daily life?
The people tasked with making Brexit happen are currently all leavers, Messrs' Davis, Fox and Johnson. It will be their job to sell their "new deal" to the Rees Moggs, Hannans and Carswells of this world. That ain't gonna be easy, but nobody on the remain side would have a cat in hell's chance of doing it. They will not necessarily have to personally sell their deal to the UK population - the government as a whole will have to do that.
In the meantime, 2020 comes closer and Joe Public realises that there are still Polish speakers infesting the town centre, that legislation from Whitehall can be equally as daft as anything that Belgium could come up with. that increased trade with the rest of the world has made bugger all difference to him, and that the price of his bananas, grapes, new European car and fuel to put in it has gone up since the £ sunk.
17 million have lit the blue touch paper, and not all of them will be standing back far enough. Especially the government in office come the 2020 election.
405dogvan said:
Nothing we've seen thusfar has ANYTHING to do with us actually leaving the EU - what we're seeing is markets reacting to something they abhor - uncertainty.
Sure, some people thrive and profit from that but our economy is being damaged by the simple fact that no-one knows WTF is going on.
It seems the Govt is making noises about 'BREXIT' but I suspect that behind-the-scenes they're talking to all the people who provide their 'advice' (funding/kickbacks/straight-out bribes) to see what they want - they will then deliver that packaged in ribbon marked 'BREXIT'.
Until that's done our economy will remain 'uncertain', the pound will remain weak and that's going to hit people harder and harder until there is some timetable, some list of actions, some likely outcomes to look towards.
No-one should be under any illusions, the UK voted (extremely narrowly) to do something no-one has done before, to go into completely uncharted territory for which we have NO PLAN and that makes us weak, vulnerable and a target for exploitation. It puts a lot of people at risk in financial terms - from high-end investors down to people just trying to make a living.
Whether it ruins us or makes us great as history unfolds, it's going to be a painful process and not which is going hurt many of the 52% who voted for it as well as the 48% who didn't.
Be as bullish as you like about final outcomes - anyone who's less than concerned about what happens before that happens is a grade one idiot.
I'm not sure how surprised anyone is that the current problems are due to 'ANYTHING to do with us actually leaving the EU' as, rather obviously, we haven't left yet. You are spot on that it is the uncertainty that is the cause. Sure, some people thrive and profit from that but our economy is being damaged by the simple fact that no-one knows WTF is going on.
It seems the Govt is making noises about 'BREXIT' but I suspect that behind-the-scenes they're talking to all the people who provide their 'advice' (funding/kickbacks/straight-out bribes) to see what they want - they will then deliver that packaged in ribbon marked 'BREXIT'.
Until that's done our economy will remain 'uncertain', the pound will remain weak and that's going to hit people harder and harder until there is some timetable, some list of actions, some likely outcomes to look towards.
No-one should be under any illusions, the UK voted (extremely narrowly) to do something no-one has done before, to go into completely uncharted territory for which we have NO PLAN and that makes us weak, vulnerable and a target for exploitation. It puts a lot of people at risk in financial terms - from high-end investors down to people just trying to make a living.
Whether it ruins us or makes us great as history unfolds, it's going to be a painful process and not which is going hurt many of the 52% who voted for it as well as the 48% who didn't.
Be as bullish as you like about final outcomes - anyone who's less than concerned about what happens before that happens is a grade one idiot.
Following on from that, no one has any idea of when we will leave or, more importantly, what the agreement will be.
We will discover what the businesses want of course when the decision is made. There is no way the tories will go against their source of income, in exactly the same way labour.
The one 'business' that is on the rise post vote is lobbying. You remember lobbying, it is what Cameron suggested he'd dispense with.
One thing I will say though, in disagreement to your post, although perhaps just the implication, is regards being bullish. 'We' need to be bullish at this time, more than ever of recent times.
But as you say, both the 52% and the 48% have common fears as well as common interests. The petty point scoring is to be abhorred. Whatever the outcome of the negotiations it will not satisfy everyone, or even most of them. I wonder if that will cause further problems. At the moment I can't see either side fighting against open borders.
Dr Jekyll said:
Mario149 said:
I see the UK's vote to leave as a petulant (to re-use Digga's word from above) child not wanting to play anymore despite the fact they had all the best toys.
By what possible stretch of the imagination did the UK, a net contributor, have the 'best toys'?Digga said:
Clearly I'm not the only one who gets it. Spoiled children is an apt analogy.
"On our knees"; a significant number of those who voted to leave, as well as some who voted to remain feel the EU has become undemocratic and was steamrollering over the wishes of sovereign government and public alike.
Why do people keep referring to remainers as sore losers or spoiled children etc. People aren't upset because their football team lost, or their mum confiscated their iPad, they're upset because they have very real concerns about the economy, their jobs and their children's futures. They feel like they're being forced into a period of economic turmoil by a group of people they don't particularly look up to or would tend to get financial advice from, "On our knees"; a significant number of those who voted to leave, as well as some who voted to remain feel the EU has become undemocratic and was steamrollering over the wishes of sovereign government and public alike.
Edited by el stovey on Saturday 23 July 13:32
powerstroke said:
el stovey said:
I agree, people want to leave and they win, they look around for affirmation of their decision and see nothing but negativity, even reports suggesting people who shared their view were less educated, old, lower social economic groups etc. This was always going to be the reality of voting against the experts and voting for more uncertainty (than remaining).
its unreasonable to vote to leave the EU and expect everyone to suddenly think it was a good idea and get behind it. The reason there's so much negativity in the media is because most of the experts and people who know about the economy didn't want to leave.
They will be really upset when we pick up the ball and while the EU is worrying about keeping all the members and vested interests happy, we sign some real trade deals!!!! We have done the right thing Brexit rocks .....country is going places the world beckons .... its unreasonable to vote to leave the EU and expect everyone to suddenly think it was a good idea and get behind it. The reason there's so much negativity in the media is because most of the experts and people who know about the economy didn't want to leave.
I think part of the brexit frustration is that some actually expected the experts to turn around and go, ok you win we were only scaremongering. They weren't.
Digga said:
Clearly I'm not the only one who gets it. Spoiled children is an apt analogy.
"On our knees"; a significant number of those who voted to leave, as well as some who voted to remain feel the EU has become undemocratic and was steamrollering over the wishes of sovereign government and public alike.
So, in your previous post you say that there is under-investment in infrastructure. Whose fault do you feel that is? "On our knees"; a significant number of those who voted to leave, as well as some who voted to remain feel the EU has become undemocratic and was steamrollering over the wishes of sovereign government and public alike.
I pointed out that 'on our knees' is meaningless hyperbole. I asked how do you feel oppressed you come with 'undemodcratic EU'.
Let's try differently; what concrete measure, concrete regulation, had an impact on your life to made you feel that you are on your knees?
This victim mentality that somehow EU was bullying us, is really getting on my tits.
We had MEPs who for freaking decades didn't do anything to get our position (while we were still there) any better. Who were fvcking about like petulant children, not doing what they were paid to do, actually, thinking about it, doing everything to prove that 'EU bad'.
Despite that;
factcheck said:
Official EU voting records* show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999
In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.
2% ? 3% abstentions?In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.
Is that what we need to take control from?
Please show me any government in living memory where you agreed with 95% of stuff they are doing. Whatever political persuasion.
So yes, imo, 'on our knees' is emotional b
ks, with no base in reality. powerstroke said:
They will be really upset when we pick up the ball and while the EU is worrying about keeping all the members and vested interests happy, we sign some real trade deals!!!! We have done the right thing Brexit rocks .....country is going places the world beckons ....
You say 'we' but according to your profile you're a 'service tech/mecanic', so I assume that by 'we' you mean other people with more brains than you, other people who most probably never thought it was a good idea to leave in the first place.Whenever you post I'm reminded of this article in the Daily Mash:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/b...
Daily Mash said:
THE UK can get free access to the single market without any concessions on freedom of movement, according to a man with no idea what ‘negotiating’ means.
Warehouse operative Nathan Muir believes that if British representatives tell the EU that they mean business and refuse to back down they will get every single thing they want without surrendering anything.
He continued: “It’s all about attitude. If we walk in saying ‘I’ll trade this for this,’ or ‘We may agree some compromises’ they’ll make mincemeat out of us.
“But go in there British and proud, tell them ‘Full access to the single market, no immigration, and we keep all our subsidies or I’m out that door’ and they’ll cave like the continental cowards they are.
“Though obviously we do need to meet in the middle on freedom of movement. They can’t come here but I still go wherever I want. That seems fair.”
Friend Stephen Malley said: “I remember when Nathan went to negotiate himself a pay rise. They cut his hours and moved him to nights.”
Warehouse operative Nathan Muir believes that if British representatives tell the EU that they mean business and refuse to back down they will get every single thing they want without surrendering anything.
He continued: “It’s all about attitude. If we walk in saying ‘I’ll trade this for this,’ or ‘We may agree some compromises’ they’ll make mincemeat out of us.
“But go in there British and proud, tell them ‘Full access to the single market, no immigration, and we keep all our subsidies or I’m out that door’ and they’ll cave like the continental cowards they are.
“Though obviously we do need to meet in the middle on freedom of movement. They can’t come here but I still go wherever I want. That seems fair.”
Friend Stephen Malley said: “I remember when Nathan went to negotiate himself a pay rise. They cut his hours and moved him to nights.”
el stovey said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
. . . .
I fully expect those who didn't want to leave the EU to be unhappy about it for some considerable time, and that is a considerable proportion of the population.
Worse considering that it's largely the people in government and those running businesses and those with jobs and starting careers vs those retired and unemployed. I fully expect those who didn't want to leave the EU to be unhappy about it for some considerable time, and that is a considerable proportion of the population.
Like it or not, the fact is, the remain group are much more influential in the success of the economy than brexiters in general.
It's hardly surprising there's so much negativity around.
MarshPhantom said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
sidicks said:
I expect them to be unhappy / disappointed.
I don't expect them to act so as to negatively impact the future (and present).
Do you not see the irony in that?I don't expect them to act so as to negatively impact the future (and present).
Acting so as to make the present and future worse for themselves and everyone else is illogical. The alternative is to expect these 'apparently clever' (so they would have you believe) to throw their toys out of the pram and disrupt the economy.
Mario149 said:
Our toys were the schengen opt out, our own currency and the rest (see here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opt-outs_in_the_Eu... plus the bits that DC brought back.
So surely everyone should opt out of Schengen and have their own currency etc. You cannot argue on the one hand that the EU is such a brilliant institution that we are daft not to be members, and on the other that to preserve some independence gives us an unfair advantage.MarshPhantom said:
I think the average leave voter is probably a bit of a failure. Good luck letting them get us out of their mess.
There were some very successful people who supported leave, Dyson and Paphitis (someone whose views I respect) for example, but on the whole I agree. They voted emotionally to regain sovereignty without any real consideration of the economics, and now seek to blame the remainers for being unwilling to assist in resolving the economic consequences that are unfolding.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff