The economic consequences of Brexit

[jjlynn27]

Dr Jekyll said:

So surely everyone should opt out of Schengen and have their own currency etc. You cannot argue on the one hand that the EU is such a brilliant institution that we are daft not to be members, and on the other that to preserve some independence gives us an unfair advantage.

Isn't that exactly what we are trying to do now? Have more opt-outs but belong to the single market?

[Mr GrimNasty]

MarshPhantom said:

el stovey said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

. . . .

I fully expect those who didn't want to leave the EU to be unhappy about it for some considerable time, and that is a considerable proportion of the population.

Worse considering that it's largely the people in government and those running businesses and those with jobs and starting careers vs those retired and unemployed.

Like it or not, the fact is, the remain group are much more influential in the success of the economy than brexiters in general.

It's hardly surprising there's so much negativity around.

I think the average leave voter is probably a bit of a failure. Good luck letting them get us out of their mess.

I'm almost beginning to feel sorry for you guys now, the rest of your lives riven with bitterness, muttering to yourself in your rocking chair on your porch quietly going insane.

What a bunch of losers, in every sense.

[anonymous-user]

sidicks said:

Acting so as to make the present and future worse for themselves and everyone else is illogical.

That also applies very much to voting leave

[PurpleMoonlight]

sidicks said:

Acting so as to make the present and future worse for themselves and everyone else is illogical.

Yet 17M did.

[anonymous-user]

PurpleMoonlight said:

MarshPhantom said:

I think the average leave voter is probably a bit of a failure. Good luck letting them get us out of their mess.

There were some very successful people who supported leave, Dyson and Paphitis (someone whose views I respect) for example, but on the whole I agree. They voted emotionally to regain sovereignty without any real consideration of the economics, and now seek to blame the remainers for being unwilling to assist in resolving the economic consequences that are unfolding.

A very narrow viewpoint and quite condescending. Millions of the leave voters voted that way because they saw no benefit from the EU for themselves. Whatever the economic consequences they'll be no worse off than they were.

The fault lies with the EU and our government for losing their support. If all had been well with the EU we'd still be in.

And the response? To try to punish the UK as a deterrent to the other inmates members. They, and you, just don't get it.

[sidicks]

PurpleMoonlight said:

sidicks said:

Acting so as to make the present and future worse for themselves and everyone else is illogical.

Yet 17M did.

That remains to be seen and of course, depends on what you value as important.

[///ajd]

REALIST123 said:

A very narrow viewpoint and quite condescending. Millions of the leave voters voted that way because they saw no benefit from the EU for themselves. Whatever the economic consequences they'll be no worse off than they were.

The fault lies with the EU and our government for losing their support. If all had been well with the EU we'd still be in.

And the response? To try to punish the UK as a deterrent to the other inmates members. They, and you, just don't get it.

They might have seen no benefit but they were lied to.

The fault does not lie soley with the EU, who its true could have made a better case, but the real fault lies with the false promises of total immigration control and no impact on our trading which would magically get better.

Now its all seen to be nonsense some brexiters are actually blaming others for this mess. Typical nationalism - blame someone else.

The fact that the brexit leaders have either all crawled under a bush or are whimpering on the international stage speaks volumes about what brexit is and how it is percieved.

A bad joke, gone horribly wrong.

[PurpleMoonlight]

sidicks said:

That remains to be seen and of course, depends on what you value as important.

An extra £350M pw for the NHS perhaps?

[Mario149]

Digga said:

Mario149 said:

I disagree, I mostly see Remainers highlighting the economic warning signs and pointing out that this was largely predicted.

Frankly, I don't feel the need to get on board and try to make Brexit a goer or pretend that I think everything is going to be fine. And if I can help show that it's a bad idea such that it may in some small way help to prevent us Leaving, I will. The Leave decision was made by other people, it was not what I wanted, so the onus is on them to get on with it and fix it themselves...

We're all sleeping in the same bed here; it's YOUR own bed you're stting with that utterly contemptible attitude.

In what possible way are we now NOT leaving?! Brexit means Brexit, not faff and funny around in a strop until someone says oh well, okay then, not gone too well has it, so let's just go back to the UK in the EU again. That chances of that outcome are infinitesimally small. Meanwhile, in the real world, we can all - if we so choose - help form the best realistic way forward.

I really find it hilarious that so many people viewed this as such a binary event. There were Remainers with severe misgivings about both the EU and immigration, which there were leavers keen to stay as close and cooperative as possible with our European friends and neighbours, and also very much against the less tolerant end of the leave campaign. Compromises abound, that's life.

No one pretended there would be no consequences of Brexit, but it was a decision to metaphorically die on our feet rather than live on our knees. As others say, using immigration to crudely fill in demographic holes and boost up GDP dud not do much for the country's struggling infrastructure and clearly, the majority did not feel it did much for them either.

I find the attitude of some Remainers exasperatingly ridiculous. The only parallel I've ever seen was having to haul a bloke with severe exhaustion off a mountain in a whiteout - he was so scared of dying up the that, bizarrely, left to his own devices (we had to remove his pack and manhandle him down the descent) he'd have sat down and died there. Infected by the fear of your own propaganda.

Lol, your mistake is thinking that we are all in the same bed. I hate to break it to you but we're not. I'm 34 and have been lucky enough in life that if I took a 50% pay cut, it wouldn't materially affect the quality of life of me and mine in any real way. As I said before, worst case scenario we'd downsize and/or move somewhere warm and (semi) retire. My background is a mixture of German, French, Italian and god knows what else. I have stayed in the UK because I enjoy it and work is good, but I get offered contract opportunities in EU countries on an almost daily basis and wouldn't have a problem living in any number of them.

Brexit means Brexit? Pull the other one. It means we'll probably leave, not that we def will. It always makes me chuckle how some (not necessarily you) are willing to take particular politicians statements as gospel because they agree with them but then 5 mins later call them all liars.

The vote, ridiculous as it was, was most definitely a binary event. I keep getting told that on here as much every time I say that if we do Leave, most people will be unhappy with the outcome as there's no possible way to please all Leavers in the real world.

If you think staying in the EU was akin to sitting on a mountain freezing to death, I think you're well shy of the mark. Interesting binary choice metaphor you managed to come up with though, despite saying the Ref was not a binary choice.

[sidicks]

PurpleMoonlight said:

An extra £350M pw for the NHS perhaps?

[gizlaroc]

MarshPhantom said:

I think the average leave voter is probably a bit of a failure. Good luck letting them get us out of their mess.

Yet just about every remain voter seems completely uneducated about the state of the EU and what a mess it is in and seemed to base their opinion of what has been, not what was coming and voted accordingly.

Always two sides.

[anonymous-user]

gizlaroc said:

MarshPhantom said:

I think the average leave voter is probably a bit of a failure. Good luck letting them get us out of their mess.

Yet just about every remain voter seems completely uneducated about the state of the EU and what a mess it is in and seemed to base their opinion of what has been, not what was coming and voted accordingly.

Always two sides.

Unfortunately most of the economic experts appear to be on the remain side.

[anonymous-user]

gizlaroc said:

MarshPhantom said:

I think the average leave voter is probably a bit of a failure. Good luck letting them get us out of their mess.

Yet just about every remain voter seems completely uneducated about the state of the EU and what a mess it is in and seemed to base their opinion of what has been, not what was coming and voted accordingly.

Always two sides.

IMO both leave and remain were/are uneducated on brexit. Since the 23rd both sides are becoming educated.

The main casualty at the moment seems to be sterling. A great opportunity for foreign investment IMO.

[Digga]

Mario149 said:

Lol, your mistake is thinking that we are all in the same bed. I hate to break it to you but we're not. I'm 34 and have been lucky enough in life that if I took a 50% pay cut, it wouldn't materially affect the quality of life of me and mine in any real way.

I'm kind of a big deal. <\Ron Burgundy>

Mario149 said:

My background is a mixture of German, French, Italian and god knows what else. I have stayed in the UK because I enjoy it and work is good, but I get offered contract opportunities in EU countries on an almost daily basis and wouldn't have a problem living in any number of them.

But you are actually British, right?

With the greatest of respect to Germany, France and Italy, with the way you describe your lack of attachment to the UK, you don't sound like you really had any skin in the game.

[Derek Smith]

Digga said:

I'm kind of a big deal. <\Ron Burgundy>

Good comment. I see how you totally destroyed the poster's argument.

You can't get better than that.

Almost as good as

sidicks said:

Digga said:

In what possible way are we now NOT leaving?! Brexit means Brexit,

Well, there you go. You ask the question and then make a statement that isn't really an argument.

Brexit doesn’t of itself mean anything other than leaving the EU. But what happens then? You don’t know what the result of the negotiations will be so whilst you suggest that brexit means brexit, you cannot define the second one any more than anyone else can.

There are some results that appear more likely than others, but that’s about as far as anyone can go. So brexit actually means a range of options.

One way we are not leaving the EU as such is something similar to the Norwegian option. It will cover the vote to leave, so will be justifiable, but will mean that we are still in the EU.

If that option is allowed by the EU, and it will probably not be a given, then the change from in to out will be, more or less, transparent.

So brexit could mean something very much like not brexit.

You don’t know and nor do I.

[Digga]

The oint I'm making about Brexit, which clealerly, despite your best efforts at disagrreeing with me, you are fully cognoscent of, is that we ARE leaving the EU. I also, totally agree that in what way shap or form the UK departs remains to be seen.

So far, we're on the same page, yes? Where I seem to loose one or two people, is in the assertion that it is in Everyone's interest - irrespective of how they voted - to get the best deal and to create a success of it. Is that so illogical?

[Mario149]

Dr Jekyll said:

Mario149 said:

Our toys were the schengen opt out, our own currency and the rest (see here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opt-outs_in_the_Eu... plus the bits that DC brought back.

So surely everyone should opt out of Schengen and have their own currency etc. You cannot argue on the one hand that the EU is such a brilliant institution that we are daft not to be members, and on the other that to preserve some independence gives us an unfair advantage.

No, what I was saying was that in the context of how the UK has always felt about the EU and how it's always been negatively portrayed, we had a very, very good deal.We're in a club we've constantly complained about and yet still been able to get special treatment other members haven't.

Edited for spelling

Edited by Mario149 on Saturday 23 July 16:25

[sidicks]

Derek Smith said:

Digga said:

I'm kind of a big deal. <\Ron Burgundy>

Good comment. I see how you totally destroyed the poster's argument.

You can't get better than that.

Almost as good as

sidicks said:

The original poster didn't really have an argument, just the false pretence that many Brexiters expected an extra £350m per day for the NHS as a result of leaving the EU. That this false claims keeps getting reported is extremely boring, hence the appropriate response.

Derek Smith said:

Digga said:

In what possible way are we now NOT leaving?! Brexit means Brexit,

Well, there you go. You ask the question and then make a statement that isn't really an argument.

Brexit doesn’t of itself mean anything other than leaving the EU.

So you actually agree with the point the OP was making!!

Derek Smith said:

But what happens then? You don’t know what the result of the negotiations will be so whilst you suggest that brexit means brexit, you cannot define the second one any more than anyone else can.

There are some results that appear more likely than others, but that’s about as far as anyone can go. So brexit actually means a range of options.

One way we are not leaving the EU as such is something similar to the Norwegian option. It will cover the vote to leave, so will be justifiable, but will mean that we are still in the EU.

Isn't that nonsense?!

Derek Smith said:

If that option is allowed by the EU, and it will probably not be a given, then the change from in to out will be, more or less, transparent.

So brexit could mean something very much like not brexit.

You don’t know and nor do I.

I'm not sure he ever claimed to know how exactly Brexit will be achieved, that isn't the point being made, so have engineered a false argument.

Edited by sidicks on Saturday 23 July 16:03

[anonymous-user]

Digga said:

The oint I'm making about Brexit, which clealerly, despite your best efforts at disagrreeing with me, you are fully cognoscent of, is that we ARE leaving the EU. I also, totally agree that in what way shap or form the UK departs remains to be seen.

So far, we're on the same page, yes?

So really we could end up not actually leaving the EU?

[Dr Jekyll]

Derek Smith said:

One way we are not leaving the EU as such is something similar to the Norwegian option. It will cover the vote to leave, so will be justifiable, but will mean that we are still in the EU.

No, because Norway is not in the EU. The Norway option is precisely what many Leave voter wanted.