The economic consequences of Brexit

[don'tbesilly]

Trophy Husband said:

Here's hoping this has all been a dreadful nightmare.

It might be wise to see your GP or seek counselling,the hope is forlorn.

[williamp]

also worth remembering that that the government didnt want this: brexit wasnt in their manifesto. What was in the manifesto was allowing us to decide for ourselvres: somehting which labour were against.

They gave us the vote, we voted out. So Brexit isnt tory policy, however they are in government and they need/will do the best they can to get the best result for us.

[B'stard Child]

Trophy Husband said:

We will not leave Europe.

Absolutely Correct - It's fking hard to move an island of the size of the UK anywhere

If it could be done I wish

- It could have been done a long time ago - to somewhere with better weather
- It could be done without Scotland remaining attached (joke people - Joke!!!)

We are however planning to leave the EU

HTH

[B'stard Child]

Bugger took too long on the editing - beaten to the count by three two others......

[Trophy Husband]

s2art said:

Trophy Husband said:

We will not leave Europe. I still believe that Parliament will not vote for it. It is not in the best interests of the population. Who would sanction a decision so stupid as to damage the economy for at least a generation? I don't give a flying toss if 51.8% of the people who voted want it. I'd love to see the demographic of those who voted out. I'm sure it would make great a great socioeconomic study in years to come. Please excuse my generalisation for those of you who voted out who don't fall into the category but I suggest that the majority of those that voted us out have contributed the least to the prosperity of this great nation.

How can TM broker the best deal for UK when the vote to leave is the biggest slap in the chops for the remainder of the union? Get real people. Yes, of course she can broker the best deal but that only means one thing. A shiite deal but the best that can be achieved. Like going to a cheap restaurant and asking for their finest wine.

Talk about UK manufacturing? Are we talking Honda? Ford? GM? Toyota? JLR? Tata? That is manufacturing in the UK not UK manufacturing.

I'm in my late 40's and my sons are 6 and 4. I worry for their future and I'm right to. I'm sure it has been said here many times but I for one am ashamed of the people I know who voted to leave and remain so. My difficulty is that I am not responsible for the decision but may have to suffer the consequences for years and years to come. I'd rather not be looking at saying 'I told you so' ad infinitum for the rest of my days. Here's hoping this has all been a dreadful nightmare.

Epic bedwetting.

You are entitled to your opinion as I am mine. The above is mine. The difference between us is obviously that you cannot be wrong at this very moment in time whereas I can. However, give it a few years and if you are still around here and judging by your post count, you may well be, we'll see who is right. What would be good is if you can expand upon your obviously well considered two worder and explain to me, a mere mortal, three things. 1. What is this to do with bed wetting? and 2. Once you have explained that satisfactorily, in what way is it an epic example of it? 3. What's it like being you?

[alfie2244]

Trophy Husband said:

We will not leave Europe.

Ah.....hankering after the good old days eh?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12244964

[freshkid]

I voted remain, it was mainly a solidarity thing...I feel I am part of Europe and that the EU is a necessary evil.

However, most of my earnings come from abroad (paid in Euros/Dollars). Since we left I am receiving more £s than ever in my bank account once the currency conversion is done. It's like getting a 20-30% pay rise. Yes going on holiday has just got more expensive, but anything priced for the UK market prior to Brexit is now looking cheap.

I get the root cause of this, but it taught me a lesson in economics. What looks bad to some is rarely bad for everyone. Which makes me think we need to focus not on the consequences of Brexit, but on the opportunities.

Simple example - UK retailers have an opportunity because we are home to the cheapest goods in Europe right now. Should be boom times while it lasts. Some wholesalers have not even upped prices yet. Ok, it won't last but lets make some money while the sun shines right?

[anonymous-user]

Trophy Husband said:

We will not leave Europe. I still believe that Parliament will not vote for it. It is not in the best interests of the population. Who would sanction a decision so stupid as to damage the economy for at least a generation? I don't give a flying toss if 51.8% of the people who voted want it. I'd love to see the demographic of those who voted out. I'm sure it would make great a great socioeconomic study in years to come. Please excuse my generalisation for those of you who voted out who don't fall into the category but I suggest that the majority of those that voted us out have contributed the least to the prosperity of this great nation.

How can TM broker the best deal for UK when the vote to leave is the biggest slap in the chops for the remainder of the union? Get real people. Yes, of course she can broker the best deal but that only means one thing. A shiite deal but the best that can be achieved. Like going to a cheap restaurant and asking for their finest wine.

Talk about UK manufacturing? Are we talking Honda? Ford? GM? Toyota? JLR? Tata? That is manufacturing in the UK not UK manufacturing.

I'm in my late 40's and my sons are 6 and 4. I worry for their future and I'm right to. I'm sure it has been said here many times but I for one am ashamed of the people I know who voted to leave and remain so. My difficulty is that I am not responsible for the decision but may have to suffer the consequences for years and years to come. I'd rather not be looking at saying 'I told you so' ad infinitum for the rest of my days. Here's hoping this has all been a dreadful nightmare.

What is "the category" you speak of?

[Strocky]

freshkid said:

I voted remain, it was mainly a solidarity thing...I feel I am part of Europe and that the EU is a necessary evil.

However, most of my earnings come from abroad (paid in Euros/Dollars). Since we left I am receiving more £s than ever in my bank account once the currency conversion is done. It's like getting a 20-30% pay rise. Yes going on holiday has just got more expensive, but anything priced for the UK market prior to Brexit is now looking cheap.

I get the root cause of this, but it taught me a lesson in economics. What looks bad to some is rarely bad for everyone. Which makes me think we need to focus not on the consequences of Brexit, but on the opportunities.

Simple example - UK retailers have an opportunity because we are home to the cheapest goods in Europe right now. Should be boom times while it lasts. Some wholesalers have not even upped prices yet. Ok, it won't last but lets make some money while the sun shines right?

How many UK workers are paid in the manner you are?

[B'stard Child]

freshkid said:

I voted remain, it was mainly a solidarity thing...I feel I am part of Europe and that the EU is a necessary evil.

I have no problem with people who voted remain or leave - my only question would be at what point would the activities/aims of the EU cause you to regard it as an unnecessary evil??

[sidicks]

Trophy Husband said:

You are entitled to your opinion as I am mine. The above is mine. The difference between us is obviously that you cannot be wrong at this very moment in time whereas I can. However, give it a few years and if you are still around here and judging by your post count, you may well be, we'll see who is right. What would be good is if you can expand upon your obviously well considered two worder and explain to me, a mere mortal, three things. 1. What is this to do with bed wetting? and 2. Once you have explained that satisfactorily, in what way is it an epic example of it? 3. What's it like being you?

You've done the 'Brexiters are generally thick' argument. Any chance of the 'Brexiters are racist' argument too?

[B'stard Child]

sidicks said:

Trophy Husband said:

You are entitled to your opinion as I am mine. The above is mine. The difference between us is obviously that you cannot be wrong at this very moment in time whereas I can. However, give it a few years and if you are still around here and judging by your post count, you may well be, we'll see who is right. What would be good is if you can expand upon your obviously well considered two worder and explain to me, a mere mortal, three things. 1. What is this to do with bed wetting? and 2. Once you have explained that satisfactorily, in what way is it an epic example of it? 3. What's it like being you?

You've done the 'Brexiters are generally thick' argument. Any chance of the 'Brexiters are racist' argument too?

Do we have to?

It's not like it's never been done before

[andymadmak]

Trophy Husband said:

stuff

Yes, we will leave the EU. There will be adjustments over the next few years, (it won't take a generation) By the time your children leave school they will be entering a workplace that will be trading more fervently around the world. The EU (if it still exists by then) will still be a trading partner for the UK, just a slightly less important one as in the coming years the UK will focus on the truly enormous opportunities elsewhere on the planet. The UK has voted to get out there and make new friends. The EU just wants to stay in and work out new ways of picking its own nose. The old world is stagnant, the new world is vibrant and I for one am proud that this old nation of ours has voted to be a part of it.

Yes, yes I know I am talking in simplistic terms, but honestly TH, I fear that facts and stats are not what you will receive well right now. Change is coming and it is clear that you fear it. That fear dominates you and blinds you. Don't let it.

[John145]

Strocky said:

freshkid said:

I voted remain, it was mainly a solidarity thing...I feel I am part of Europe and that the EU is a necessary evil.

However, most of my earnings come from abroad (paid in Euros/Dollars). Since we left I am receiving more £s than ever in my bank account once the currency conversion is done. It's like getting a 20-30% pay rise. Yes going on holiday has just got more expensive, but anything priced for the UK market prior to Brexit is now looking cheap.

I get the root cause of this, but it taught me a lesson in economics. What looks bad to some is rarely bad for everyone. Which makes me think we need to focus not on the consequences of Brexit, but on the opportunities.

Simple example - UK retailers have an opportunity because we are home to the cheapest goods in Europe right now. Should be boom times while it lasts. Some wholesalers have not even upped prices yet. Ok, it won't last but lets make some money while the sun shines right?

How many UK workers are paid in the manner you are?

And in one short sentence the whole purpose of freshkid's post is missed. Quite spectacular.

[Trophy Husband]

Hosenbugler said:

Trophy Husband said:

We will not leave Europe. I still believe that Parliament will not vote for it. It is not in the best interests of the population. Who would sanction a decision so stupid as to damage the economy for at least a generation? I don't give a flying toss if 51.8% of the people who voted want it. I'd love to see the demographic of those who voted out. I'm sure it would make great a great socioeconomic study in years to come. Please excuse my generalisation for those of you who voted out who don't fall into the category but I suggest that the majority of those that voted us out have contributed the least to the prosperity of this great nation.
How can TM broker the best deal for UK when the vote to leave is the biggest slap in the chops for the remainder of the union? Get real people. Yes, of course she can broker the best deal but that only means one thing. A shiite deal but the best that can be achieved. Like going to a cheap restaurant and asking for their finest wine.
Talk about UK manufacturing? Are we talking Honda? Ford? GM? Toyota? JLR? Tata? That is manufacturing in the UK not UK manufacturing.
I'm in my late 40's and my sons are 6 and 4. I worry for their future and I'm right to. I'm sure it has been said here many times but I for one am ashamed of the people I know who voted to leave and remain so. My difficulty is that I am not responsible for the decision but may have to suffer the consequences for years and years to come. I'd rather not be looking at saying 'I told you so' ad infinitum for the rest of my days. Here's hoping this has all been a dreadful nightmare.

We will not leave Europe, we will, however leave the EU.

Parliament have no need to vote on anything, they asked the electorate to make a decision for them on a specific subject, they did.

You are just another who likes democracy when it agrees with you views.

Thanks for the pedantry. There are many ways that this can play out constitutionally. The UK must invoke Article 50 based on the UK's constitutional requirements. Read up on them (below). Parliament cannot sanction an action that will have a negative effect on the population. On the balance of probabilities Brexit will.

The argument rests on the fact that without Parliament's backing any prime minister would be exercising what are known as prerogative powers.
These are a collection of executive powers held by the Crown since medieval times and now placed in the hands of ministers.
They are often used in foreign affairs Parliament has largely left to the government.
However, case law establishes these executive powers cannot trump an act of Parliament.
Legislation can only be altered by legislation.
And so, by extension, if a prime minister triggered Article 50 and so put the UK on a one-way road out of the EU without Parliament's backing, he or she would be overriding the 1972 European Communities Act, which provides for the UK's membership of the EU and for the EU treaties to have effect in domestic law.
The Article 50 process would cut across and emasculate the 1972 act, and so, the argument goes, the prime minister needs the backing of a new act of Parliament to give him or her the constitutional authority to push the Leave button.


Writing in the Times newspaper, the crossbench peer Lord Pannick QC, an eminent specialist in public law, said: "Whether Parliament would enact legislation to allow for an Article 50 withdrawal is a matter for it.
"However, without such legislation, the prime minister cannot lawfully give a notification."
Similar views have been expressed by Lord Lester QC and Sir Malcolm Jack, a former clerk to the House of Commons.
There is also an attempt to crowd-fund legal advice on the issue: "Should Parliament decide?"
The Crowd Justice website says a legal challenge could be "the most important public law case in living memory".
If it was decided that a prime minister acting alone under prerogative powers lacked the constitutional authority to trigger Article 50, an act of Parliament would need to be passed giving him or her that authority.
The passage of that act would of course provide the opportunity for MPs (a majority of whom favour Remain) to express their views on Brexit and in theory vote according to their consciences.

Basically, TM may have acted 'unlawfully'. We'll see shall we?

[Trophy Husband]

andymadmak said:

Trophy Husband said:

stuff

Yes, we will leave the EU. There will be adjustments over the next few years, (it won't take a generation) By the time your children leave school they will be entering a workplace that will be trading more fervently around the world. The EU (if it still exists by then) will still be a trading partner for the UK, just a slightly less important one as in the coming years the UK will focus on the truly enormous opportunities elsewhere on the planet. The UK has voted to get out there and make new friends. The EU just wants to stay in and work out new ways of picking its own nose. The old world is stagnant, the new world is vibrant and I for one am proud that this old nation of ours has voted to be a part of it.

Yes, yes I know I am talking in simplistic terms, but honestly TH, I fear that facts and stats are not what you will receive well right now. Change is coming and it is clear that you fear it. That fear dominates you and blinds you. Don't let it.

Thanks. I appreciate your candour. Don't get me wrong, as the owner of an SME I'm trying to see the good side but I can't. It is that simple.

[anonymous-user]

Trophy Husband said:

Thanks for the pedantry. There are many ways that this can play out constitutionally. The UK must invoke Article 50 based on the UK's constitutional requirements. Read up on them (below). Parliament cannot sanction an action that will have a negative effect on the population. On the balance of probabilities Brexit will.

The argument rests on the fact that without Parliament's backing any prime minister would be exercising what are known as prerogative powers.
These are a collection of executive powers held by the Crown since medieval times and now placed in the hands of ministers.
They are often used in foreign affairs Parliament has largely left to the government.
However, case law establishes these executive powers cannot trump an act of Parliament.
Legislation can only be altered by legislation.
And so, by extension, if a prime minister triggered Article 50 and so put the UK on a one-way road out of the EU without Parliament's backing, he or she would be overriding the 1972 European Communities Act, which provides for the UK's membership of the EU and for the EU treaties to have effect in domestic law.
The Article 50 process would cut across and emasculate the 1972 act, and so, the argument goes, the prime minister needs the backing of a new act of Parliament to give him or her the constitutional authority to push the Leave button.


Writing in the Times newspaper, the crossbench peer Lord Pannick QC, an eminent specialist in public law, said: "Whether Parliament would enact legislation to allow for an Article 50 withdrawal is a matter for it.
"However, without such legislation, the prime minister cannot lawfully give a notification."
Similar views have been expressed by Lord Lester QC and Sir Malcolm Jack, a former clerk to the House of Commons.
There is also an attempt to crowd-fund legal advice on the issue: "Should Parliament decide?"
The Crowd Justice website says a legal challenge could be "the most important public law case in living memory".
If it was decided that a prime minister acting alone under prerogative powers lacked the constitutional authority to trigger Article 50, an act of Parliament would need to be passed giving him or her that authority.
The passage of that act would of course provide the opportunity for MPs (a majority of whom favour Remain) to express their views on Brexit and in theory vote according to their consciences.

Basically, TM may have acted 'unlawfully'. We'll see shall we?

Lets assume the Government lose their case in court, that Art50 can be enacted via the Crown prerogative.

Do you think the MP's will not allow Article 50 to be triggered when they vote on it in Parliament?

[Mrr T]

jsf said:

May has been clear, the goal is to get the best deal for the UK and the EU to enable free trade in goods and services whilst retaining control over our boarders and whilst not having the ECJ have jurisdiction over UK law.

That by definition means we cant continue to be members of the single market, because to be a member you have to allow the ECJ be the top court. That is why when May discusses this she talks about access to the single market.

That is not hard Brexit, that is not soft Brexit, both are stupid terms with a multitude of possible meanings.

So government policy it to have a UK/EU treaty which gives the UK every thing it wants but nothing it does not want.

I can see a small snag.

[alfie2244]

Trophy Husband said:

Mostly cut & paste

[barryrs]

Mrr T said:

So government policynegotiating position is to have a UK/EU treaty which gives the UK every thing it wants but nothing it does not want.

I can see a small snag.