The economic consequences of Brexit

[anonymous-user]

SilverSixer said:

Andy Zarse said:

SilverSixer said:

Andy Zarse said:

SilverSixer said:

Wrong again, B'stard Child referenced the (E)USSR...

No he didn't. Don't make it up, you only make youself look foolish. He reference the EuSSR; I understand this to be the European Soviet Socialist Republic. So nothing to do with Russia then. So there's parallels to be drawn, and it's a bit like the USSR. What is so hard to comprehend without projecting your childish prejudices?

My childish prejudices? Jesus, comparing the EU to the USSR is about as childish and ill-informed as it gets. There's no such thing as a European Soviet Socialist Republic, isn't now and never was. So EuSSR is a clear jibe, equating the EU with the USSR.

Bloody hell, is this the best you lot have got? Pathetic. Or, if you agree with the comparison, please could you provide evidence of the EU's pogroms, persecutions, imprisonment of political prisoners, forced relocations of minorities, concentration camps etc.

Oooh get her! What a touchingly quaint display of ire.

Watch it or I'll bash you with my handbag.

I do believe you might.

[SilverSixer]

don'tbesilly said:

SilverSixer said:

s2art said:

SilverSixer said:

My childish prejudices? Jesus, comparing the EU to the USSR is about as childish and ill-informed as it gets. There's no such thing as a European Soviet Socialist Republic, isn't now and never was. So EuSSR is a clear jibe, equating the EU with the USSR.

Bloody hell, is this the best you lot have got? Pathetic. Or, if you agree with the comparison, please could you provide evidence of the EU's pogroms, persecutions, imprisonment of political prisoners, forced relocations of minorities, concentration camps etc.

See http://www.vernoncoleman.com/whytheeuisliketheold....

Utter, utter, unmitigated wk, in every single word. Horrendously poor effort.

wow, that was quite impressive, 3 mins between posts and in that time you arrived at a summary of 'unmitigated wk and a horrendously poor effort'.

I'm tempted to ask what made it masturbatory and a poor effort,but I don't want to hear about your personal problems.

I'm a fast reader, benefits of a long and successful academic career in languages, including my degree in Russian Studies, during which I spent several periods of study in the USSR, including one year at Moscow State University. I can recommend you some proper texts about the USSR if you like.

[B'stard Child]

SilverSixer said:

Andy Zarse said:

SilverSixer said:

Wrong again, B'stard Child referenced the (E)USSR...

No he didn't. Don't make it up, you only make youself look foolish. He reference the EuSSR; I understand this to be the European Soviet Socialist Republic. So nothing to do with Russia then. So there's parallels to be drawn, and it's a bit like the USSR. What is so hard to comprehend without projecting your childish prejudices?

My childish prejudices? Jesus, comparing the EU to the USSR is about as childish and ill-informed as it gets. There's no such thing as a European Soviet Socialist Republic, isn't now and never was. So EuSSR is a clear jibe, equating the EU with the USSR.

I've already said a vote to remain was not a vote for the status quo - the EU is "creeping" towards an end point of one "single state of Europe" it hasn't been named yet so I chose a suitable one pending actual naming

Junkers said:

One shouldn't pursue the wrong policies just because one is afraid of not being reelected. Those who intend to govern have to take responsibility for their countries and for Europe as a whole. This means, if need be, that they have to pursue the right policies, even if many voters think they are the wrong ones.

Junkers said:

A united Europe is our Continent's only chance to avoid falling off the world's radar. The heads of government of Germany, France and the United Kingdom also know that their voice is only heard internationally because they speak through the megaphone of the European Union.

I want no part of that

SilverSixer said:

Bloody hell, is this the best you lot have got? Pathetic. Or, if you agree with the comparison, please could you provide evidence of the EU's pogroms, persecutions, imprisonment of political prisoners, forced relocations of minorities, concentration camps etc.

First step in the EuSSR is breakdown all the tribal elements - "free movement" of people does that - people no longer associate themselves as from a particular country only as EUrs. This makes the task of making 28 27 individual nations into one much easier.

I think some people in the UK have already been assimilated into "EUrs" probably faster than the council and presidents had expected.

Good job we voted to leave.....

[SilverSixer]

BC, if you believe the EU wants to and will succeed in breaking up national sentiment, and given that the USSR completely failed in breaking down tribal and national allegiances, as well as religious ones, I'd say that's a poor start for your theory.

[B'stard Child]

SilverSixer said:

BC, if you believe the EU wants to and will succeed in breaking up national sentiment, and given that the USSR completely failed in breaking down tribal and national allegiances, as well as religious ones, I'd say that's a poor start for your theory.

There you go comparing the USSR to the EU again

Junkers said it far better than I could

Junkers said:

I notice with a certain sense of regret that far too many Europeans are returning to a regional and national mindset.

[Andy Zarse]

Digga said:

Andy Zarse said:

Digga said:

road dumbing-down is a perennial issue and has pushed extra local traffic onto motorways.

In the 1970s, Digga snr used to commute from jct13 of the M6, down to Oldbury, jct 2 of the M5 in 30 mins, without fail. You try doing that at 8am nowadays and it's triple the time, if you manage to avoid an accident.

Absolutely every road user I know routinely experience delays - on both business and private journeys - on our roads. We all do. There is a huge social and economic cost attached to this which is simply being swept under the carpet.

Now you're talking! I remember them building the M6/M5 interchange as we lived a couple of miles away. They had some fantastic old heavy plant working on it.

An older chap I know tells a great story about returning home to the West Midlands from a weekend in Blackpool on the M6. As he got down towards Stafford he was so busy eating a cheese and onion barm the landlady of the B&B had made him that he drove off the end of the motorway. It really was not that long ago the the Preston by pass opened.

Beats looking at a mobile phone whilst driving.

My uncle farmed near Stoke and the M6 runs through a small piece of what was his farm land, just before the Stoke junction 15. One of the happiest days of my childhood was when a Corona bottle lorry careered off the motorway and through his fence, spilling its contents far and wide. We had wheelbarrows of the stuff away, mainly Orangeade when it had proper E-numbers in it. We were buzzing for weeks!

[Digga]

B'stard Child said:

SilverSixer said:

BC, if you believe the EU wants to and will succeed in breaking up national sentiment, and given that the USSR completely failed in breaking down tribal and national allegiances, as well as religious ones, I'd say that's a poor start for your theory.

There you go comparing the USSR to the EU again

Junkers said it far better than I could

Junkers said:

I notice with a certain sense of regret that far too many Europeans are returning to a regional and national mindset.

The aim of eroding or removing national identity is implicit in much of what the EU elite say and do. Furthermore, every now and again, the aim is more overtly expressed, by accident.

FT said:

Recall Jean Monnet’s old quip that Europe “will be forged in crises”. He expected individual nation-states to inevitably come closer together as international challenges, economic and otherwise, became increasingly difficult for any single country to handle individually....

FT said:

At least some European founding fathers seem to have conceived the mechanism knowing that these inconsistencies would lead to crises. These crises were seen as opportunities to force further integration which voters would have not favored otherwise. In the words of Romano Prodi, one of these founding fathers, “I am sure the euro will oblige us to introduce a new set of economic policy instruments. It is politically impossible to propose that now. But some day there will be a crisis and new instruments will be created...

https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2014/09/17/1970502/the-fatal-flaw-that-could-doom-the-european-project/

[confused_buyer]

SilverSixer said:

I'm a fast reader, benefits of a long and successful academic career in languages, including my degree in Russian Studies, during which I spent several periods of study in the USSR, including one year at Moscow State University. I can recommend you some proper texts about the USSR if you like.

You must have been there when it dissolved (IIRC you stated your age as 44 in another thread). I was there for a while in 1994 as my first job after University - interesting place and time.

[B'stard Child]

Digga said:

The aim of eroding or removing national identity is implicit in much of what the EU elite say and do. Furthermore, every now and again, the aim is more overtly expressed, by accident.

I'm glad I'm not alone

Now how many of the 17.4 million who voted Leave also are of the same mindset

[don'tbesilly]

B'stard Child said:

Digga said:

The aim of eroding or removing national identity is implicit in much of what the EU elite say and do. Furthermore, every now and again, the aim is more overtly expressed, by accident.

I'm glad I'm not alone

Now how many of the 17.4 million who voted Leave also are of the same mindset

We briefly touched on this yesterday

[SilverSixer]

confused_buyer said:

SilverSixer said:

I'm a fast reader, benefits of a long and successful academic career in languages, including my degree in Russian Studies, during which I spent several periods of study in the USSR, including one year at Moscow State University. I can recommend you some proper texts about the USSR if you like.

You must have been there when it dissolved (IIRC you stated your age as 44 in another thread). I was there for a while in 1994 as my first job after University - interesting place and time.

I'm 46 now, I was there 1990-91, came home weeks before the tanks were sent out against Yeltsin.

[confused_buyer]

SilverSixer said:

I'm 46 now, I was there 1990-91, came home weeks before the tanks were sent out against Yeltsin.

It was like the Wild West in the early 90's. There were a lot of "ex-pats" around as well by then - most of them working on various dodgy construction projects or "businessmen" trying to hustle into something or get recruited by MI6 for a bit of spying. A lot of them did very well and made $2500 in a week and then spent $3000 on Friday night in the Night Flight or similar on drink and hookers and went home broke.

It all changed quite quickly - I went back a few years later to find even the Intourist (possibly the world's most hideous building but I went to the University of Essex so it looked kind of familiar) a hotel famed for the fact that anyone of it's very numerous prostitutes could do whatever they were asked to do in the lift in the time it took to get from the Lobby to the top floor had been torn down and replaced with a Ritz Carlton.

I would add that I never had the pleasure (thankfully) of staying there but I stood on the corner of Tverskaya and thought that said it all!

[SilverSixer]

confused_buyer said:

SilverSixer said:

I'm 46 now, I was there 1990-91, came home weeks before the tanks were sent out against Yeltsin.

It was like the Wild West in the early 90's. There were a lot of "ex-pats" around as well by then - most of them working on various dodgy construction projects or "businessmen" trying to hustle into something or get recruited by MI6 for a bit of spying. A lot of them did very well and made $2500 in a week and then spent $3000 on Friday night in the Night Flight or similar on drink and hookers and went home broke.

It all changed quite quickly - I went back a few years later to find even the Intourist (possibly the world's most hideous building but I went to the University of Essex so it looked kind of familiar) a hotel famed for the fact that anyone of it's very numerous prostitutes could do whatever they were asked to do in the lift in the time it took to get from the Lobby to the top floor had been torn down and replaced with a Ritz Carlton.

I would add that I never had the pleasure (thankfully) of staying there but I stood on the corner of Tverskaya and thought that said it all!

We used to go and drink in the basement (Valyutni) bar in the Intourist sometimes when feeling deprived of proper beer. What was it they sold? Some German lager or other, it's a long time ago now. My year there was the height of the Gorby dry years and food shortages, there was one - one - rouble accepting pub in the whole of Moscow. Mainly bought our booze (Pshchenichnaya Vodka usually, grim stuff) on the black market, which was easy and cheap enough for us. Couldn't stretch to the hookers in the hotels - but as students we didn't really need to worry about that. :-) Booze was easier to get in other cities, we used to get the overnight train to Kiev sometimes to go drinking and shopping for luxuries like cheese. Hard but great fun times.

[confused_buyer]

SilverSixer said:

We used to go and drink in the basement (Valyutni) bar in the Intourist sometimes when feeling deprived of proper beer. What was it they sold? Some German lager or other, it's a long time ago now. My year there was the height of the Gorby dry years and food shortages, there was one - one - rouble accepting pub in the whole of Moscow. Mainly bought our booze (Pshchenichnaya Vodka usually, grim stuff) on the black market, which was easy and cheap enough for us. Couldn't stretch to the hookers in the hotels - but as students we didn't really need to worry about that. :-) Booze was easier to get in other cities, we used to get the overnight train to Kiev sometimes to go drinking and shopping for luxuries like cheese. Hard but great fun times.

I didn't partake either. I do remember the bar though. I remember it being an odd cross over time with some of the old Soviet System combined with new (badly built) shopping centres going up (or down as many are in basements) all over the place. Most things were available but some very expensive.

The driving was still horrendous though as I suspect it still is.

Haven't been back for ages - must be 15 years or so. After that I went and worked in Libya which was something of a contrast (although, oddly enough even worse Vodka).

[tumble dryer]

confused_buyer said:

SilverSixer said:

We used to go and drink in the basement (Valyutni) bar in the Intourist sometimes when feeling deprived of proper beer. What was it they sold? Some German lager or other, it's a long time ago now. My year there was the height of the Gorby dry years and food shortages, there was one - one - rouble accepting pub in the whole of Moscow. Mainly bought our booze (Pshchenichnaya Vodka usually, grim stuff) on the black market, which was easy and cheap enough for us. Couldn't stretch to the hookers in the hotels - but as students we didn't really need to worry about that. :-) Booze was easier to get in other cities, we used to get the overnight train to Kiev sometimes to go drinking and shopping for luxuries like cheese. Hard but great fun times.

I didn't partake either. I do remember the bar though. I remember it being an odd cross over time with some of the old Soviet System combined with new (badly built) shopping centres going up (or down as many are in basements) all over the place. Most things were available but some very expensive.

The driving was still horrendous though as I suspect it still is.

Haven't been back for ages - must be 15 years or so. After that I went and worked in Libya which was something of a contrast (although, oddly enough even worse Vodka).

Coolstarrybra guys.

[saabster14]

Don't get too het up boys and girls... it's a just a little bit of fun

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2016/12/01/8-ways-get-goo...

[powerstroke]

saabster14 said:

Don't get too het up boys and girls... it's a just a little bit of fun

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2016/12/01/8-ways-get-goo...

Yes and you can see why they don't want any help from Farage
Classic Tall Poppy syndrome !!! ... What a cupid stunt you are Davis .....

[PurpleMoonlight]

powerstroke said:

Yes and you can see why they don't want any help from Farage
Classic Tall Poppy syndrome !!! ... What a cupid stunt you are Davis .....

He's not discounting possibilities, I don't see why he should be criticised for that.

[anonymous-user]

powerstroke said:

saabster14 said:

Don't get too het up boys and girls... it's a just a little bit of fun

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2016/12/01/8-ways-get-goo...

Yes and you can see why they don't want any help from Farage
Classic Tall Poppy syndrome !!! ... What a cupid stunt you are Davis .....

Davis has never been clever. Ditto IDS, Liam Fox ... they were and are journeymen who now have been catapulted by events to center stage. But they are still as limited as they ever were.

It's all rather unfortunate for the country, IMO.

[saabster14]

Greg66 said:

Davis has never been clever. Ditto IDS, Liam Fox ... they were and are journeymen who now have been catapulted by events to center stage. But they are still as limited as they ever were.

It's all rather unfortunate for the country, IMO.

does that apply to Boris Johnston too?