The economic consequences of Brexit
Poll: The economic consequences of Brexit
Total Members Polled: 732
Discussion
Tony427 said:
The EU is in a far weaker negotiating position both economically and politically then they think.
They may well find that their whole business structure will not be keeping with the political programme.
You're brave. Expect the usual suspects to pile in on you and tell you that (despite your obvious and relevant experience to the contrary) you don't know what you are talking about. The standard position of the ardent Remainer is that the UK has precious little by way of negotiating power and that the EU will be able to loftily wash their hands of us without having to worry or concern themselves about domestic repercussions in Italy, France, Germany etc etc.They may well find that their whole business structure will not be keeping with the political programme.
I have said all along that I think (hope) that pragmatism will win out - albeit with some face saving window dressing on both sides. UK will exit EU but will retain some sort of access to the SM. No FMOP per se, but something workable based around "Free Movement Of People who have a job already lined up or who have a desired skill" and can prove it by way of some sort of simple qualification program. It's likely that UK will also pay an amount for the right to access the SM. The Gauleiters in Brussels will be able to pretend that they won, and the UK can at last be free of the whole socialist experiment that is the EU before it either reforms back to a trading zone (which we might wish to join again) or collapses into a festering pile.
RYH64E said:
I think the stumbling block is that the EU will be saying free movement and single market access go together, the UK want single market without free movement.
Canada does not now have free movement of people with the EU post CETA.Canada now has a free trade agreement with the EU.
Canada's trade with the EU is not as important to the EU as the UK's trade.
The EU are in serious trouble if they cut off UK sourced financing.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Digga said:
There are two sides to any negotiation and it behoves both sides to take a fairly resolute approach, pre-negotiation, in order to protect their own interests. I'm not sure why people struggle with this.
This isn't a second hand car deal, or the terms of a few trains, it involves the lives of millions of people. Personally, I think full, frank, and above all open discussions should be undertaken. I get the distinct feeling the EU is more willing to do that than the UK at the moment.You're right it wasn't a second hand car deal, or the terms of a few trains, it involves the lives of millions of people, but NOT you apparently.
Why didn't you vote for something you are now demanding?
If you had bothered to make a conviction either way you might have a valid point.
What right do you now have for demanding anything?
You don't care either way and said so on the 23rd September.
By the way, you'll see it as an insult, does the truth always insult you?
One of the statements made during the referendum, was that the EU was a trading bloc of 5 million people, but in real life how true was that?
Genuine question, because I cannot see that someone in an EU country, would cross 27 other EU countries to buy a toaster from another member state, when the country next door makes perfectly good toasters, at a better price, because of reduced transport costs if nothing else, and they can get it repaired more easily if it goes wrong.
The problem for the UK is that it has most of the other EU countries between it, and the one it wants to sell into, all of whom are making similar goods to the same EU standards. What advantage is there for them to buy UK manufactured products, rather than those made far nearer? again a genuine question.
Could this be why the UK has always had a multi billion pound trade deficit in the 40 years since it joined the EEC?
Genuine question, because I cannot see that someone in an EU country, would cross 27 other EU countries to buy a toaster from another member state, when the country next door makes perfectly good toasters, at a better price, because of reduced transport costs if nothing else, and they can get it repaired more easily if it goes wrong.
The problem for the UK is that it has most of the other EU countries between it, and the one it wants to sell into, all of whom are making similar goods to the same EU standards. What advantage is there for them to buy UK manufactured products, rather than those made far nearer? again a genuine question.
Could this be why the UK has always had a multi billion pound trade deficit in the 40 years since it joined the EEC?
andymadmak said:
You are almost certainly correct, however my question to PM was why he felt that the EU was up for an open discussion when the UK was not (in his opinion)
Either he has a genuine reason for believing this, or it's just another lazy way of bashing HMG
Just the impression I get.Either he has a genuine reason for believing this, or it's just another lazy way of bashing HMG
They have stated the timescale they feel they need to get it sorted within two years.
They have repeatedly stated no SM without freedoms.
They have repeatedly stated don't expect a better deal with the EU from outside than we have inside.
In the meantime the UK is still faffing about trying to decide who actually has the power to fire the starting pistol and coming up with meaningless sound bites like 'brexit is brexit' and the latest 'red white and blue deal'.
Pan Pan Pan said:
One of the statements made during the referendum, was that the EU was a trading bloc of 5 million people, but in real life how true was that?
Genuine question, because I cannot see that someone in an EU country, would cross 27 other EU countries to buy a toaster from another member state, when the country next door makes perfectly good toasters, at a better price, because of reduced transport costs if nothing else, and they can get it repaired more easily if it goes wrong.
The problem for the UK is that it has most of the other EU countries between it, and the one it wants to sell into, all of whom are making similar goods to the same EU standards. What advantage is there for them to buy UK manufactured products, rather than those made far nearer? again a genuine question.
Could this be why the UK has always had a multi billion pound trade deficit in the 40 years since it joined the EEC?
This applies to some goods but not to others.Genuine question, because I cannot see that someone in an EU country, would cross 27 other EU countries to buy a toaster from another member state, when the country next door makes perfectly good toasters, at a better price, because of reduced transport costs if nothing else, and they can get it repaired more easily if it goes wrong.
The problem for the UK is that it has most of the other EU countries between it, and the one it wants to sell into, all of whom are making similar goods to the same EU standards. What advantage is there for them to buy UK manufactured products, rather than those made far nearer? again a genuine question.
Could this be why the UK has always had a multi billion pound trade deficit in the 40 years since it joined the EEC?
Maybe a UK toaster is basically the same as a French toaster or Dutch toaster or German toaster.
However, a UK car is not really a substitute for a French car or a German car etc etc
jsf said:
RYH64E said:
I think the stumbling block is that the EU will be saying free movement and single market access go together, the UK want single market without free movement.
Canada does not now have free movement of people with the EU post CETA.Canada now has a free trade agreement with the EU.
Canada's trade with the EU is not as important to the EU as the UK's trade.
The EU are in serious trouble if they cut off UK sourced financing.
RYH64E said:
So you're expecting negotiations to go well then? The EU will realise that they need us more than we need them and give us what we want?
I think he's saying there will be a compromise by both parties. Which seems entirely reasonable.You seem to be suggesting the opposite...
PurpleMoonlight said:
andymadmak said:
You are almost certainly correct, however my question to PM was why he felt that the EU was up for an open discussion when the UK was not (in his opinion)
Either he has a genuine reason for believing this, or it's just another lazy way of bashing HMG
Just the impression I get.Either he has a genuine reason for believing this, or it's just another lazy way of bashing HMG
They have stated the timescale they feel they need to get it sorted within two years.
They have repeatedly stated no SM without freedoms.
They have repeatedly stated don't expect a better deal with the EU from outside than we have inside.
In the meantime the UK is still faffing about trying to decide who actually has the power to fire the starting pistol and coming up with meaningless sound bites like 'brexit is brexit' and the latest 'red white and blue deal'.
If you care so much now, why not on the 23rd June?
You can carry on ignoring the questions, I'll carry on questioning why you care.
sidicks said:
RYH64E said:
So you're expecting negotiations to go well then? The EU will realise that they need us more than we need them and give us what we want?
I think he's saying there will be a compromise by both parties. Which seems entirely reasonable.You seem to be suggesting the opposite...
sidicks said:
This applies to some goods but not to others.
Maybe a UK toaster is basically the same as a French toaster or Dutch toaster or German toaster.
However, a UK car is not really a substitute for a French car or a German car etc etc
I think you will find little difference between most products sold in the UK and those in the rest of the EU. The only obvious difference is plugs on electrical goods but most of these now are just adapters.Maybe a UK toaster is basically the same as a French toaster or Dutch toaster or German toaster.
However, a UK car is not really a substitute for a French car or a German car etc etc
Even UK cars are most likely 95% similar to the same car sold in the rEU.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Digga said:
There are two sides to any negotiation and it behoves both sides to take a fairly resolute approach, pre-negotiation, in order to protect their own interests. I'm not sure why people struggle with this.
This isn't a second hand car deal, or the terms of a few trains, it involves the lives of millions of people. Personally, I think full, frank, and above all open discussions should be undertaken. I get the distinct feeling the EU is more willing to do that than the UK at the moment.jsf said:
RYH64E said:
I think the stumbling block is that the EU will be saying free movement and single market access go together, the UK want single market without free movement.
Canada does not now have free movement of people with the EU post CETA.Canada now has a free trade agreement with the EU.
Canada's trade with the EU is not as important to the EU as the UK's trade.
The EU are in serious trouble if they cut off UK sourced financing.
We are.
Mrr T said:
I think you will find little difference between most products sold in the UK and those in the rest of the EU. The only obvious difference is plugs on electrical goods but most of these now are just adapters.
Even UK cars are most likely 95% similar to the same car sold in the rEU.
I think you miss the point regarding cars!Even UK cars are most likely 95% similar to the same car sold in the rEU.
sidicks said:
Mrr T said:
I think you will find little difference between most products sold in the UK and those in the rest of the EU. The only obvious difference is plugs on electrical goods but most of these now are just adapters.
Even UK cars are most likely 95% similar to the same car sold in the rEU.
I think you miss the point regarding cars!Even UK cars are most likely 95% similar to the same car sold in the rEU.
(I knew what you meant, I don't think it was the least big ambiguous, but clearly I'm wrong.)
PurpleMoonlight said:
Digga said:
Listen son, I know more about down-to-the-wire negotiations than you know about Balamory. I was sitting in meetings with barristers on both sides, while you were still trying to colour between the lines. Wind your pencil-neck in.
Why the aggression?PurpleMoonlight said:
Digga said:
Why the insolence?
Where have I been insolent?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff