Do we have to leave the EU a QC says no
Discussion
skahigh said:
There is no plan B or indeed plan A because the leave campaigners are not the elected government, what exactly can they do until a new Tory leader is selected?
I keep seeing this repeated and it's just nonsense.
But there is a plan. We will save £350m a week, put it all in the NHS. What's left will be used to increase the size of the army, the navy and the airforce. And the police.I keep seeing this repeated and it's just nonsense.
What's left will be used to pay the fee for our Norwegian Option membership.
What's left will be used for other dreams.
You obviously didn't talk to one of the exit campaigners. It is all perfectly clear.
ewenm said:
Interesting pic here on previously ignored referenda: https://twitter.com/drramzyross/status/74779322974...
Also interesting that it comes from a book by MEP Daniel Hannan, who gave an articulated and strong argument for leaving the EU in the run up to the referendum. Wading through a lot of the propaganda spewed by both sides his points were pretty compelling on the leave side, not least because he is a very good public speaker. That said, post referendum interviews have shown him as less composed when under pressure when questioned directly.jshell said:
vonuber said:
jshell said:
People f
king whinging all the time make us look like retards.
Actually people voting leave on the basis of getting rid of foreigners , an imaginary amount of money appearing to fund the NHS and, of course, making britain great again rooooaaarrrrrr! makes us look like retards.king whinging all the time make us look like retards.Well, 52% of us anyway.
On this occasion the democracy construct fell apart and showed it to be what it really is. That is, sometimes it may not be healthy, but if you give people choice, be prepared to live with it!
We should be exploring every possible avenue to undo the damage, and if some of those avenues include a constitutionally acceptable way of staying in the EU, then so be it. We're not going to look any worse for it.
ATG said:
jshell said:
vonuber said:
jshell said:
People fking whinging all the time make us look like retards.
Actually people voting leave on the basis of getting rid of foreigners , an imaginary amount of money appearing to fund the NHS and, of course, making britain great again rooooaaarrrrrr! makes us look like retards.king whinging all the time make us look like retards.Well, 52% of us anyway.
On this occasion the democracy construct fell apart and showed it to be what it really is. That is, sometimes it may not be healthy, but if you give people choice, be prepared to live with it!
We should be exploring every possible avenue to undo the damage, and if some of those avenues include a constitutionally acceptable way of staying in the EU, then so be it. We're not going to look any worse for it.
The key question is how to not leave but in such a way as the public are kept happy. I'm rather surprised no one is suggesting the wheeze that now it's apparent Scotland must be allowed independance if we leave that a second referendum needs to ask, "Should the UK be dissolved as a Union and we leave the EU".
It's not very democratic of course. But then you'd have to be pretty naive to think things ever really are.
Timmy40 said:
ATG said:
jshell said:
vonuber said:
jshell said:
People fking whinging all the time make us look like retards.
Actually people voting leave on the basis of getting rid of foreigners , an imaginary amount of money appearing to fund the NHS and, of course, making britain great again rooooaaarrrrrr! makes us look like retards.king whinging all the time make us look like retards.Well, 52% of us anyway.
On this occasion the democracy construct fell apart and showed it to be what it really is. That is, sometimes it may not be healthy, but if you give people choice, be prepared to live with it!
We should be exploring every possible avenue to undo the damage, and if some of those avenues include a constitutionally acceptable way of staying in the EU, then so be it. We're not going to look any worse for it.
The key question is how to not leave but in such a way as the public are kept happy. I'm rather surprised no one is suggesting the wheeze that now it's apparent Scotland must be allowed independance if we leave that a second referendum needs to ask, "Should the UK be dissolved as a Union and we leave the EU".
It's not very democratic of course. But then you'd have to be pretty naive to think things ever really are.
h.Soov535 said:
Ain't democracy a bh.
Quite- hence why a general election is quite preferable isn't it? As the case 9for leave is so strong, it will be a cinch for a party to be elected on that promise (rather than the fractures we have now) and envoke article 50 through an act of parliament. h.That would be democracy in action - well our version of it. Parliament is supreme, not the people.
vonuber said:
Soov535 said:
Ain't democracy a bh.
Quite- hence why a general election is quite preferable isn't it? As the case 9for leave is so strong, it will be a cinch for a party to be elected on that promise (rather than the fractures we have now) and envoke article 50 through an act of parliament. h.That would be democracy in action - well our version of it. Parliament is supreme, not the people.
Surely its pretty simple, either the UK government has to repeal the 1972 European communities act (as discussed by a QC in the Independent article and elsewhere) before the process of invoking article 50 begins or it doesn't. There isnt really a grey area is there?
That's probably why Mr Junkers wasn't handed a note this morning saying "so long, and thanks for all the fish" (well, maybe not the fish). Article 50 does say that the country leaving needs to fulfill its constitutional obligations, presumably in the case of the UK this means a vote in the Commons on it.
Whether MP's vote in favour or not remains to be seen.
Its a shame people feel the need to insult each other over it. As has been so ably demonstrated on some of these threads.
I'm no lawyer but its clear that there is a process that has to be followed and no amount of wishing they "would just get on with it" is going to change that.
As someone succinctly put it earlier..Aint democracy a bh.
That's probably why Mr Junkers wasn't handed a note this morning saying "so long, and thanks for all the fish" (well, maybe not the fish). Article 50 does say that the country leaving needs to fulfill its constitutional obligations, presumably in the case of the UK this means a vote in the Commons on it.
Whether MP's vote in favour or not remains to be seen.
Its a shame people feel the need to insult each other over it. As has been so ably demonstrated on some of these threads.
I'm no lawyer but its clear that there is a process that has to be followed and no amount of wishing they "would just get on with it" is going to change that.
As someone succinctly put it earlier..Aint democracy a b
h.HiVac said:
vonuber said:
Soov535 said:
Ain't democracy a bh.
Quite- hence why a general election is quite preferable isn't it? As the case 9for leave is so strong, it will be a cinch for a party to be elected on that promise (rather than the fractures we have now) and envoke article 50 through an act of parliament. h.That would be democracy in action - well our version of it. Parliament is supreme, not the people.
Soov535 said:
HiVac said:
vonuber said:
Soov535 said:
Ain't democracy a bh.
Quite- hence why a general election is quite preferable isn't it? As the case 9for leave is so strong, it will be a cinch for a party to be elected on that promise (rather than the fractures we have now) and envoke article 50 through an act of parliament. h.That would be democracy in action - well our version of it. Parliament is supreme, not the people.
lostkiwi said:
Soov535 said:
HiVac said:
vonuber said:
Soov535 said:
Ain't democracy a bh.
Quite- hence why a general election is quite preferable isn't it? As the case 9for leave is so strong, it will be a cinch for a party to be elected on that promise (rather than the fractures we have now) and envoke article 50 through an act of parliament. h.That would be democracy in action - well our version of it. Parliament is supreme, not the people.
carinatauk said:
lostkiwi said:
Doesn't mean it will happen. Our democratically elected representatives could decide otherwise.
What do you think will happen then? It will make the turn out for the GE's interesting!lostkiwi said:
carinatauk said:
lostkiwi said:
Doesn't mean it will happen. Our democratically elected representatives could decide otherwise.
What do you think will happen then? It will make the turn out for the GE's interesting!Soov535 said:
eatcustard said:
supercampeao said:
Jimmyarm said:
eatcustard said:
Jimboka said:
The majority of MPs are remain. They should do their job & govern. IE rip up the X factor vote, that was swayed by outright self confessed lies from the Clueless Brexit lot..
Good idea throw a way democracy and risk civil unrest and the MPs being voted out at the next GEThe people have spoken, get the f
k on with it.t with your pitchfork for the timebeing - carry on...^ Seems a bit artificial.
The current Government has stated its policy is to implement the referendum result. S-L-O-W-L-Y it seems.
A new Conservative PM could take up those reins or reject them. And could either way go to the country (pretty sure Labour would give the necessary votes for a 2/3 majority to dissolve Parliament) to seek a fresh mandate - eg for a very specific Leave route/option.
The outcome of that GE could be a Government - single party or coalition - which has pledged as a manifesto promise not to implement the referendum.
Democracy: as good as the last vote on the subject.
(By way of postscript: the potential constitutional puzzle would be if a new Remain Government had more seats but fewer votes across the country than the defeated Leave side - by no means impossible with FPTP - and fewer votes than were cast in favour of Leave in the referendum.)
The current Government has stated its policy is to implement the referendum result. S-L-O-W-L-Y it seems.
A new Conservative PM could take up those reins or reject them. And could either way go to the country (pretty sure Labour would give the necessary votes for a 2/3 majority to dissolve Parliament) to seek a fresh mandate - eg for a very specific Leave route/option.
The outcome of that GE could be a Government - single party or coalition - which has pledged as a manifesto promise not to implement the referendum.
Democracy: as good as the last vote on the subject.
(By way of postscript: the potential constitutional puzzle would be if a new Remain Government had more seats but fewer votes across the country than the defeated Leave side - by no means impossible with FPTP - and fewer votes than were cast in favour of Leave in the referendum.)
Esseesse said:
lostkiwi said:
carinatauk said:
lostkiwi said:
Doesn't mean it will happen. Our democratically elected representatives could decide otherwise.
What do you think will happen then? It will make the turn out for the GE's interesting!Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff