Ultimatum EU Blueprint - The Final Solution
Discussion
Northern Munkee said:
Dear EU,
Thanks for getting me elected
M Le Pen
France - Exit stage left
mattmurdock said:
As an aside, the introduction of QMV was actually beneficial to the UK within the EU, as our large population meant we had more chance of achieving a majority on the things that mattered to us, and of blocking things we didn't like. The smaller countries like Spain and Poland were worse off, which is why they lobbied for the QMV to only take full effect in 2017, rather than immediately in 2014.
QMV is only beneficial when it is a clearly divisive issue or you are good pals with most of the big players; we're not exactly Mr Popular in Europe, even before the Brexit.Mrr T said:
So that is why you voted out? So you admit you know so little about the EU and its politics you should not have voted at all.
This is an aspiration of the committed Europhiles.
However, in the real world German would vote against the proposals because:
1. It would need a constitutional change in Germany this is a political no no.
2. This would mean fiscal transfers between the richer northern countries, German, Holland and Denmark to the poorer nations Greece, Spain, Italy. Politically this will never run.
The very fact that this is being suggested is worrying. A Federal European State is th ultimate goal of th EU project. Remainers generally have been denying that.This is an aspiration of the committed Europhiles.
However, in the real world German would vote against the proposals because:
1. It would need a constitutional change in Germany this is a political no no.
2. This would mean fiscal transfers between the richer northern countries, German, Holland and Denmark to the poorer nations Greece, Spain, Italy. Politically this will never run.
It's fact now in black and white.
Dave Hedgehog said:
Northern Munkee said:
Dear EU,Thanks for getting me elected
M Le Pen
France - Exit stage left
Mrr T said:
hornetrider said:
Northern Munkee said:
Holy crap-ola.This is why I voted out.
This is an aspiration of the committed Europhiles.
However, in the real world German would vote against the proposals because:
1. It would need a constitutional change in Germany this is a political no no.
2. This would mean fiscal transfers between the richer northern countries, German, Holland and Denmark to the poorer nations Greece, Spain, Italy. Politically this will never run.
2. Have fiscal transfers already occurred, despite being expressly forbidden under Lisbon? Yes. Who made that happen? A Troika.
Mrr T said:
hornetrider said:
Holy crap-ola.
This is why I voted out.
So that is why you voted out?This is why I voted out.
AJL308 said:
Mrr T said:
So that is why you voted out? So you admit you know so little about the EU and its politics you should not have voted at all.
This is an aspiration of the committed Europhiles.
However, in the real world German would vote against the proposals because:
1. It would need a constitutional change in Germany this is a political no no.
2. This would mean fiscal transfers between the richer northern countries, German, Holland and Denmark to the poorer nations Greece, Spain, Italy. Politically this will never run.
The very fact that this is being suggested is worrying. A Federal European State is th ultimate goal of th EU project. Remainers generally have been denying that.This is an aspiration of the committed Europhiles.
However, in the real world German would vote against the proposals because:
1. It would need a constitutional change in Germany this is a political no no.
2. This would mean fiscal transfers between the richer northern countries, German, Holland and Denmark to the poorer nations Greece, Spain, Italy. Politically this will never run.
It's fact now in black and white.
In the same way some in the EU would like a EU super state, It still does not mean it has any chance of happening.
AJL308 said:
The very fact that this is being suggested is worrying. A Federal European State is th ultimate goal of th EU project. Remainers generally have been denying that.
It's fact now in black and white.
Of course it is, and I don't believe any Remainers have been denying that.It's fact now in black and white.
What they have been denying is that a UK within the EU would get dragged into that Federal European State against its will, given the existing opt-outs.
What they have been denying is that somehow the EU would drag us in by force against the democratic will of the UK people.
It seems some of the Leave side think that we would have no democratic power within the EU, when in fact the referendum we just had demonstrates precisely the opposite.
This is what makes me despair about most of the 'Leavers' on here. I'm sure they are lovely, intelligent people, but they seem to complete switch off their brains on the subject of Europe, and turn into grunting idiots.
Maybe I'm being unfair, maybe it is just that the average voter turns into a grunting idiot when presented with any complex issue.
Mrr T said:
hornetrider said:
Northern Munkee said:
Holy crap-ola.This is why I voted out.
This is an aspiration of the committed Europhiles.
However, in the real world German would vote against the proposals because:
1. It would need a constitutional change in Germany this is a political no no.
2. This would mean fiscal transfers between the richer northern countries, German, Holland and Denmark to the poorer nations Greece, Spain, Italy. Politically this will never run.
I take your point but, assuming you're correct, why do the members allow this sort of stuff to be researched, planned and published? The cost must be horrific.
Perhaps to give a false sense sense of security to the common man when they prevent it from going ahead?
hornetrider said:
Mrr T said:
hornetrider said:
Holy crap-ola.
This is why I voted out.
So that is why you voted out?This is why I voted out.
ZesPak said:
Just like communism, it's a good enough idea but there are people involved...
It's the way forward to a Type I civilisation (like English could be our Type I language) but imho a distant dream.
It's not just some abstract though exercise though. The people who drafted it WANT it to happen and happen now! Th want to set it in motion. These are people in positions of great power right now.It's the way forward to a Type I civilisation (like English could be our Type I language) but imho a distant dream.
Ever
Closer
Union
That is what the EU project is about and is why I voted out.
Northern Munkee said:
I've only had time to quickly skim read this, can anyone summarise what exactly in this document is so scary? It reads to me a long term strategy document saying the EU needs to work together to develop some coherent plans to deal with things like global migration and terrorism. Lots of stuff about helping countries develop/improve defence/military capabilities, similar to what already happens within NATO and I'd guess resulting in more setups like the UK/French CJEF and the German Netherlands Corps.
I have a dream that one day this world will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."
I have a dream that my little children will one day live in a world where they will not be judged by their nationality but by the content of their character. I have a dream today.
The names change but the stories stay the same.
It might sound daft, but I'm convinced that if we live through all this as a race, one day our progeny will look towards us as we look towards the slavers less than 200 years ago.
Leavers can stay on their island, and it might be the smart choice in the foreseeable future (hey, slavery might be morally questionable but it got s
t done), in the end maintaining borders and "individuality" to me feels a lot like Sony trying to hold off music streaming so they can keep selling CD's.
If I lived in the UK right now I'd be looking for another place to live.
I have a dream that my little children will one day live in a world where they will not be judged by their nationality but by the content of their character. I have a dream today.
The names change but the stories stay the same.
It might sound daft, but I'm convinced that if we live through all this as a race, one day our progeny will look towards us as we look towards the slavers less than 200 years ago.
Leavers can stay on their island, and it might be the smart choice in the foreseeable future (hey, slavery might be morally questionable but it got s
t done), in the end maintaining borders and "individuality" to me feels a lot like Sony trying to hold off music streaming so they can keep selling CD's.If I lived in the UK right now I'd be looking for another place to live.
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