Brexit - real world implications

Brexit - real world implications

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Discussion

munky

5,328 posts

248 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
don4l said:
munky said:
I wouldn't worry.

Tusk told us, yesterday, that we couldn' have a trade deal without free movement of people. We have just voted against that.

So, there isn't any need for negotiations.

Edited by don4l on Thursday 30th June 15:24
Er, yes there is, in fact it's the opposite. I thought you said you were informed.

If you get access to the single market as an outside member (like Norway) then you don't need the negotiations.

However if you refuse to accept free movement of people then you don't get to access the single market as a member, so instead you become a trading partner of the EU (just like the USA is) meaning you have to negotiate trade deals with the EU.

Not only that, but no longer taking advantage of the EU's trade rules as an insider, it means you have to start again negotiating your own trade deals with every other country in the world. And that's why we apparently need 600 trade negotiators. Which we don't have. And even if we did, we are smaller than the EU, so we won't get as good a deal.

Or, you trade under the basic WTO rules, which as I read somewhere briefly aren't exactly ideal.

ETA: all above is AFAIK. I haven't double checked it as don't have the time now.

Edited by munky on Friday 1st July 17:23

KrissKross

2,182 posts

101 months

s2art

18,937 posts

253 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
munky said:
don4l said:
munky said:
I wouldn't worry.

Tusk told us, yesterday, that we couldn' have a trade deal without free movement of people. We have just voted against that.

So, there isn't any need for negotiations.

Edited by don4l on Thursday 30th June 15:24
Er, yes there is, in fact it's the opposite. I thought you said you were informed.

If you get access to the single market as an outside member (like Norway) then you don't need the negotiations.

However if you refuse to accept free movement of people then you don't get to access the single market as a member, so instead you become a trading partner of the EU (just like the USA is) meaning you have to negotiate trade deals with the EU.

Not only that, but no longer taking advantage of the EU's trade rules as an insider, it means you have to start again negotiating your own trade deals with every other country in the world. And that's why we apparently need 600 trade negotiators. Which we don't have. And even if we did, we are smaller than the EU, so we won't get as good a deal.

Or, you trade under the basic WTO rules, which as I read somewhere briefly aren't exactly ideal.

ETA: all above is AFAIK. I haven't double checked it as don't have the time now.

Edited by munky on Friday 1st July 17:23
Its a tad more complicated. If we got Norway status (EFTA and EEA) then we could limit free movement via the emergency brake that is in that particular agreement. We would still have tariff free access to the single market.
And we would be free to make new trading agreement outside EFTA/EEA. And we could take advantage of all the EFTA infrastructure for doing trade talks throughout the world.

anonymous-user

54 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
FredClogs said:
Real lives, real people. Good people who've worked hard all their lives and expected the government to at least have considered and planned for this eventuality.
The 'government' couldn't have been any clearer about the potential currency turmoil! Nor is there anything they could do about it. In any event, whilst I genuinely sympathise with those not deliberatly taking risk and still 'losing money' to the vagaries of the fx market, it sounds like they started building in the last year so were in fact benefiting from the best eurgbp rates in the last 8 years in their earlier payments. Even now eurgbp is still considerably lower than it was for most of 2009 to 2014.

Derek Smith

45,659 posts

248 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
s2art said:
Its a tad more complicated. If we got Norway status (EFTA and EEA) then we could limit free movement via the emergency brake that is in that particular agreement. We would still have tariff free access to the single market.
And we would be free to make new trading agreement outside EFTA/EEA. And we could take advantage of all the EFTA infrastructure for doing trade talks throughout the world.
Why would a tory government limit cheap labour?


s2art

18,937 posts

253 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
s2art said:
Its a tad more complicated. If we got Norway status (EFTA and EEA) then we could limit free movement via the emergency brake that is in that particular agreement. We would still have tariff free access to the single market.
And we would be free to make new trading agreement outside EFTA/EEA. And we could take advantage of all the EFTA infrastructure for doing trade talks throughout the world.
Why would a tory government limit cheap labour?
Because they have consistently promised to do so, and if they dont deliver soon they will shed votes. To be fair they have started the process for non-EU immigrants. If you cant show earnings of something like £35K you cant stay. Thats limiting cheap labour (at the cost of not enough curry chefs)

SeeFive

8,280 posts

233 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
KrissKross said:
One switched on young lady, clearly understands why she is standing there with her placard. Puts all us thick old duffers in our place.

I am humbled and ashamed.

Randy Winkman

16,134 posts

189 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
SeeFive said:
KrissKross said:
One switched on young lady, clearly understands why she is standing there with her placard. Puts all us thick old duffers in our place.

I am humbled and ashamed.
I like her. She was even quite nice about David Cameron so it's not as if she's a "lefty". Like me, her basic point seemed to be about being inclusive and "open".

don'tbesilly

13,933 posts

163 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
SeeFive said:
KrissKross said:
One switched on young lady, clearly understands why she is standing there with her placard. Puts all us thick old duffers in our place.

I am humbled and ashamed.
Ahh Holly, yes she's popping up all over the place.

No doubt the producers of 'Big Brother' will be in contact shortly, clearly a star in the making.

munky

5,328 posts

248 months

Monday 4th July 2016
quotequote all
And the good news keeps on coming.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36708844

Which tells you what investors think of the UK's future demand for office space.

munky

5,328 posts

248 months

Monday 4th July 2016
quotequote all
AJL308 said:
don4l said:
I see the constant erosion of our sovereignty.

Meaning what though? We still have our sovereign. She's known as the Queen.
That is a basic misunderstanding on your part though. Parliament is the Sovereign power in the UK.

Edited by AJL308 on Thursday 30th June 14:01
You misquoted, it was me that said that, as a flippant reply to those that waffle on about getting 'sovereignty' back, usually not being able to say what they mean by that. Or why it even matters.

Found this interesting article in the Economist from back in March, that discusses the difference between the illusion and reality of 'sovereignty'.
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21695056-tal...

Derek Smith

45,659 posts

248 months

Monday 4th July 2016
quotequote all
s2art said:
Because they have consistently promised to do so,

Words fail me.

s2art

18,937 posts

253 months

Monday 4th July 2016
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
s2art said:
Because they have consistently promised to do so,

Words fail me.
At this point the voters, particularly the Tory party members, will expect action. Not to mention all the UKIP voters that the Tories hope to win back.

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

109 months

Monday 4th July 2016
quotequote all
munky said:
You misquoted, it was me that said that, as a flippant reply to those that waffle on about getting 'sovereignty' back, usually not being able to say what they mean by that. Or why it even matters.

Found this interesting article in the Economist from back in March, that discusses the difference between the illusion and reality of 'sovereignty'.
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21695056-tal...
Don't be so negative, you'll talk this country into recession. Or worse.

don4l

10,058 posts

176 months

Monday 4th July 2016
quotequote all
munky said:
don4l said:
munky said:
I wouldn't worry.

Tusk told us, yesterday, that we couldn' have a trade deal without free movement of people. We have just voted against that.

So, there isn't any need for negotiations.

Edited by don4l on Thursday 30th June 15:24
Er, yes there is, in fact it's the opposite. I thought you said you were informed.

If you get access to the single market as an outside member (like Norway) then you don't need the negotiations.

However if you refuse to accept free movement of people then you don't get to access the single market as a member, so instead you become a trading partner of the EU (just like the USA is) meaning you have to negotiate trade deals with the EU.

Not only that, but no longer taking advantage of the EU's trade rules as an insider, it means you have to start again negotiating your own trade deals with every other country in the world. And that's why we apparently need 600 trade negotiators. Which we don't have. And even if we did, we are smaller than the EU, so we won't get as good a deal.

Or, you trade under the basic WTO rules, which as I read somewhere briefly aren't exactly ideal.

ETA: all above is AFAIK. I haven't double checked it as don't have the time now.

Edited by munky on Friday 1st July 17:23
Perhaps you should take the time to double check it.

There is absolutely no need to negotiate a "deal" with the EU.

Really.

don4l

10,058 posts

176 months

Monday 4th July 2016
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
munky said:
You misquoted, it was me that said that, as a flippant reply to those that waffle on about getting 'sovereignty' back, usually not being able to say what they mean by that. Or why it even matters.

Found this interesting article in the Economist from back in March, that discusses the difference between the illusion and reality of 'sovereignty'.
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21695056-tal...
Don't be so negative, you'll talk this country into recession. Or worse.
Are you being sarcastic?

I usually think of you as being in the "talking Britain down" camp.

I've seen you as being the same as the trotskyists that I knew in the 80's.

They led their men into unemployment, and then spent the next 30 years blaming Maggie.





Tony427

2,873 posts

233 months

Monday 4th July 2016
quotequote all
Real Life effect.

Just spent last 10 days in France wakening to the news last Thursday with a sense of relief.

Asked a few pople in France what they thought and it was the typical gallic shrug of the shoulders. No one seemed bothered in the slightest.

Everyone hit panic stations in the UK and much headless chickens action seemed to be taking place. Best place for news was actually PH.

In contrast the relaxed Cote D'azur was stinking hot but the beer was cold and the food was excellent.

Back in harness this morning and first action was to order load of stuff from a supplier in the EU.

Sales going extremely well, he had extended a spring promotion for us on the best seller until the end of June and I thought why not ask for another extension not really expecting anything.

We got the extension without any quibbles until end of the year. He doesn't want to lose us.

The exchange rate has dropped by 4 cents, variable transportation costs can have as big an impact.

It's nowt in the scheme of things.

His stuff is brilliant and we are good at selling it. Looking forward to a good remainder of the year. Life goes on, people buy things they like and people sell things they can make a margin on.

Crisis, what crisis?

Cheers,

Tony






V8 Fettler

7,019 posts

132 months

Tuesday 5th July 2016
quotequote all
munky said:
And the good news keeps on coming.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36708844

Which tells you what investors think of the UK's future demand for office space.
It's the uncertainty pending the pressing of the button for Article 50 that's the issue. Construction sector continues to contract

https://next.ft.com/content/1a4905c7-03ce-3e60-a18...


cayman-black

12,644 posts

216 months

Tuesday 5th July 2016
quotequote all
I,m pissed that the pound has dropped, everything else i,m happy with. biggrin

Oceanic

731 posts

101 months

Tuesday 5th July 2016
quotequote all
All of my clients are UK based, I'm in Sweden.

No immediate observations from them yet but I'm sure we will see some impacts.

But for me, it going to be how weak the £ get's against the Swedish Krona as to how much less salary I am going to get each month, looks like I will be a few £ out of pocket each month for the time being :-(

Also, I am now faced with having to go through the process of applying for Swedish citizenship as there is no guarantee yet what my status would be here, also I like to travel around Europe with my wife who has a Swedish passport and I don't fancy being in a different passport checking line waiting whilst she just swans through.

The other thing that might be an issue is I would have to pay import duty and taxes on items from the UK as I do from the US.