Brexit - real world implications
Discussion
CaptainSlow said:
jjlynn27 said:
Awesome. Are they 'coming in' or moving existing employees into a new building?
They've recently purchased a large business off another UK based bank. The business lends to customers across EMEA.It would be good if someone, May or Davis, come with credible plan of what they are going to negotiate with, not just 'we'll have access to single market and passporting while not bending on freedom of movement of labour'. It could be just what's needed.
paul789 said:
Well, I'm a full-on remainer who accepts this IS happening. We ARE leaving and I do not think a second ref is desirable or realistic (the lse analysis shows the vote was always leave).
So I'm fully behind this now and really want it to work. I just hope this is all scaremongering / BS / covered by the global growth we'll see:
http://uk.businessinsider.com/confidential-deutsch...
Paul ..... I wish there were more "remainers" like you ...... I am glad Teresa May seems to have grasped the nettle with both hands and I am confident this present government will do it's very best to make our withdrawal from the EU work to our best advantage.So I'm fully behind this now and really want it to work. I just hope this is all scaremongering / BS / covered by the global growth we'll see:
http://uk.businessinsider.com/confidential-deutsch...
jjlynn27 said:
kurt535 said:
Small beer? Can you provide numbers to support this statement please?
Was funnily enough in a meeting today with a person involved in directing funding who was also 'quite' busy fielding calls from companies based in R&D within Norfolk and Suffolk who are already concerned at being dropped from EU consortia bids because 'they are leaving'. His idea of small beer money is rather larger than yours and having had some firm figures of the sums involved on a national scale Id be interested to see whether you can quote the same?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3683...Was funnily enough in a meeting today with a person involved in directing funding who was also 'quite' busy fielding calls from companies based in R&D within Norfolk and Suffolk who are already concerned at being dropped from EU consortia bids because 'they are leaving'. His idea of small beer money is rather larger than yours and having had some firm figures of the sums involved on a national scale Id be interested to see whether you can quote the same?
At some point people will realise that it's not just about funding.
mondeoman said:
kurt535 said:
andymadmak said:
walm said:
230TE said:
So what did I miss out? (Other than that if the EU chops Swiss and British scientists from its research projects for political reasons, that's probably not a good thing for the research projects).
Yes. That is what you missed.And pooling two frozen out countries doesn't help at all.
We could of course ask the EU to stick to its own rules, but I think we all know which way that would go. SO what would be wrong with UK and Switzerland teaming up on R&D projects? After all, the money that UK received from H2020 and similar was small beer compared to our net contributions, so finding funding for suitable projects should not be a major issue.
It would have been nice if the EU had found a way to "be big" in their dealings with those with whom it has disagreements. Sadly, it looks like they go in for this kind of petty minded, spiteful nonsense which is, as you say, unhelpful.
Methinks if this is the way things are going to be, then we are better off out of it. Having valuable research funding being dependant on the whim of corrupt political pygmies does not represent a sensible way forward.
Was funnily enough in a meeting today with a person involved in directing funding who was also 'quite' busy fielding calls from companies based in R&D within Norfolk and Suffolk who are already concerned at being dropped from EU consortia bids because 'they are leaving'. His idea of small beer money is rather larger than yours and having had some firm figures of the sums involved on a national scale Id be interested to see whether you can quote the same?
He gave you a scale for the comparison
However the Royal Society has had a go....
The Royal Society said:
How much does the UK contribute to EU research and how much does it receive? Overall the UK is a net contributor to the EU budget. Over the period 2007 – 2013, the UK contributed €77.7 billion to the EU (10.5% of the total EU income from Member States), and received €47.5 billion in EU funding (6% of the total EU expenditure
to Member States.28
The UK is one of the largest recipients of research funding in the EU and, although national contributions to the EU budget are not itemised, analyses suggest that the UK receives a greater amount of EU research funding than it contributes. The UK Office of National Statistics (ONS) report an indicative gure for the UK’s contribution to EU research and development of €5.4 billion over the period 2007 – 2013.29 During this time, the UK received €8.8 billion
in direct EU funding for research, development and innovation activities.
Lots of interesting stuff to be found in the report, including scenarios for future cooperation/joint funding post Brexit. As always it is not a black and white issue. https://royalsociety.org/~/media/policy/projects/e...to Member States.28
The UK is one of the largest recipients of research funding in the EU and, although national contributions to the EU budget are not itemised, analyses suggest that the UK receives a greater amount of EU research funding than it contributes. The UK Office of National Statistics (ONS) report an indicative gure for the UK’s contribution to EU research and development of €5.4 billion over the period 2007 – 2013.29 During this time, the UK received €8.8 billion
in direct EU funding for research, development and innovation activities.
The Royal Society said:
The UK is one of the largest recipients of research funding in the EU and, although national contributions to the EU budget are not itemised, analyses suggest that the UK receives a greater amount of EU research funding than it contributes.
The RS is pointing to a suggestion not a statement of fact but if what they say is so, it's not a bad time to stop the freeloading and start paying our way.EU subsidies and related policies distort practice. It'll be a good day when the UK is at least a bit more free from their energy madness.
Excuse my ignorance but surely we can re-distribute the payments made to these research units, instead of paying it to the EU.
It's like giving your mate £100, only to have him give your other mate* £30 back to give him a lift.
Just give your other mate the £30 yourself.
From what I understand we still pay in more to the EU than we get and as such logic suggests we could cover all of the EU contributions?
edit: *clarified typo
It's like giving your mate £100, only to have him give your other mate* £30 back to give him a lift.
Just give your other mate the £30 yourself.
From what I understand we still pay in more to the EU than we get and as such logic suggests we could cover all of the EU contributions?
edit: *clarified typo
Edited by xjay1337 on Wednesday 20th July 17:10
xjay1337 said:
Excuse my ignorance but surely we can re-distribute the payments made to these research units, instead of paying it to the EU.
It's like giving your mate £100, only to have him give you other £30 back to give him a lift.
Just give your other mate the £30 yourself.
From what I understand we still pay in more to the EU than we get and as such logic suggests we could cover all of the EU contributions?
Doesn't make sense.It's like giving your mate £100, only to have him give you other £30 back to give him a lift.
Just give your other mate the £30 yourself.
From what I understand we still pay in more to the EU than we get and as such logic suggests we could cover all of the EU contributions?
xjay1337 said:
Excuse my ignorance but surely we can re-distribute the payments made to these research units, instead of paying it to the EU.
It's like giving your mate £100, only to have him give you other £30 back to give him a lift.
Just give your other mate the £30 yourself.
From what I understand we still pay in more to the EU than we get and as such logic suggests we could cover all of the EU contributions?
Depending on which figures you use, from the infamous £350m a week figure, we get back between about £125m and £200m .. It's like giving your mate £100, only to have him give you other £30 back to give him a lift.
Just give your other mate the £30 yourself.
From what I understand we still pay in more to the EU than we get and as such logic suggests we could cover all of the EU contributions?
However, working out exactly how much we get back and who gets it isn't that straightforward. Do we just continue with CAP payments to farmers, subsidies of EU funded schemes ,etc in exactly the same way, or do we take this chance to reform them?
London424 said:
jjlynn27 said:
kurt535 said:
Small beer? Can you provide numbers to support this statement please?
Was funnily enough in a meeting today with a person involved in directing funding who was also 'quite' busy fielding calls from companies based in R&D within Norfolk and Suffolk who are already concerned at being dropped from EU consortia bids because 'they are leaving'. His idea of small beer money is rather larger than yours and having had some firm figures of the sums involved on a national scale Id be interested to see whether you can quote the same?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3683...Was funnily enough in a meeting today with a person involved in directing funding who was also 'quite' busy fielding calls from companies based in R&D within Norfolk and Suffolk who are already concerned at being dropped from EU consortia bids because 'they are leaving'. His idea of small beer money is rather larger than yours and having had some firm figures of the sums involved on a national scale Id be interested to see whether you can quote the same?
At some point people will realise that it's not just about funding.
rscott said:
Depending on which figures you use, from the infamous £350m a week figure, we get back between about £125m and £200m ..
However, working out exactly how much we get back and who gets it isn't that straightforward. Do we just continue with CAP payments to farmers, subsidies of EU funded schemes ,etc in exactly the same way, or do we take this chance to reform them?
I get what you're saying. And I agree, I think it's time for reform (works out great).However, working out exactly how much we get back and who gets it isn't that straightforward. Do we just continue with CAP payments to farmers, subsidies of EU funded schemes ,etc in exactly the same way, or do we take this chance to reform them?
But my ultimate point is that as a country the money (funding) going to some of these charities / causes / research development stuff - Is not "stopping". It just wouldn't be coming from the EU rather from the UK directly?
xjay1337 said:
I get what you're saying. And I agree, I think it's time for reform (works out great).
But my ultimate point is that as a country the money (funding) going to some of these charities / causes / research development stuff - Is not "stopping". It just wouldn't be coming from the EU rather from the UK directly?
Think outside financial envelope. Plenty of reasons that things will change. (I hope that change, in this case, is not permanent).But my ultimate point is that as a country the money (funding) going to some of these charities / causes / research development stuff - Is not "stopping". It just wouldn't be coming from the EU rather from the UK directly?
andymadmak said:
mondeoman said:
kurt535 said:
andymadmak said:
walm said:
230TE said:
So what did I miss out? (Other than that if the EU chops Swiss and British scientists from its research projects for political reasons, that's probably not a good thing for the research projects).
Yes. That is what you missed.And pooling two frozen out countries doesn't help at all.
We could of course ask the EU to stick to its own rules, but I think we all know which way that would go. SO what would be wrong with UK and Switzerland teaming up on R&D projects? After all, the money that UK received from H2020 and similar was small beer compared to our net contributions, so finding funding for suitable projects should not be a major issue.
It would have been nice if the EU had found a way to "be big" in their dealings with those with whom it has disagreements. Sadly, it looks like they go in for this kind of petty minded, spiteful nonsense which is, as you say, unhelpful.
Methinks if this is the way things are going to be, then we are better off out of it. Having valuable research funding being dependant on the whim of corrupt political pygmies does not represent a sensible way forward.
Was funnily enough in a meeting today with a person involved in directing funding who was also 'quite' busy fielding calls from companies based in R&D within Norfolk and Suffolk who are already concerned at being dropped from EU consortia bids because 'they are leaving'. His idea of small beer money is rather larger than yours and having had some firm figures of the sums involved on a national scale Id be interested to see whether you can quote the same?
He gave you a scale for the comparison
However the Royal Society has had a go....
The Royal Society said:
How much does the UK contribute to EU research and how much does it receive? Overall the UK is a net contributor to the EU budget. Over the period 2007 – 2013, the UK contributed €77.7 billion to the EU (10.5% of the total EU income from Member States), and received €47.5 billion in EU funding (6% of the total EU expenditure
to Member States.28
The UK is one of the largest recipients of research funding in the EU and, although national contributions to the EU budget are not itemised, analyses suggest that the UK receives a greater amount of EU research funding than it contributes. The UK Office of National Statistics (ONS) report an indicative gure for the UK’s contribution to EU research and development of €5.4 billion over the period 2007 – 2013.29 During this time, the UK received €8.8 billion
in direct EU funding for research, development and innovation activities.
Lots of interesting stuff to be found in the report, including scenarios for future cooperation/joint funding post Brexit. As always it is not a black and white issue. https://royalsociety.org/~/media/policy/projects/e...to Member States.28
The UK is one of the largest recipients of research funding in the EU and, although national contributions to the EU budget are not itemised, analyses suggest that the UK receives a greater amount of EU research funding than it contributes. The UK Office of National Statistics (ONS) report an indicative gure for the UK’s contribution to EU research and development of €5.4 billion over the period 2007 – 2013.29 During this time, the UK received €8.8 billion
in direct EU funding for research, development and innovation activities.
kurt535 said:
so, just £3bn to find, sooner rather than later, given the calls this person has been fielding in the last 3 weeks..small beer money...
I dont think you have read the post properly. Please do try. I know you are looking for an argument, but in your rush to appear clever you are making yourself look like a dick. .Please, really, slow down and read things properly, then do your best to understand what has been said. If you are still struggling after that, then come back and ask polite questions.
andymadmak said:
I dont think you have read the post properly. Please do try. I know you are looking for an argument, but in your rush to appear clever you are making yourself look like a dick. .
Please, really, slow down and read things properly, then do your best to understand what has been said. If you are still struggling after that, then come back and ask polite questions.
You didn't feel like explaining your interpretation of the figures then.Please, really, slow down and read things properly, then do your best to understand what has been said. If you are still struggling after that, then come back and ask polite questions.
It is unlikely that the amount of money from research will be maintained post exit. You might be of a different opinion of course. However, it is not a simple, nor unpolitical calculation. Just adding up and taking away is an easy out, but it is shallow, and wrong. Extra money will have to be found. If it can come from the 'savings' from the EU budget, then great. But there will be other claimants for it, including the NHS. Whatever the exit route, it is likely to cost a considerable amount of money.
Politicians will have to make the decisions and opting for something so esoteric as knowledge is not high on their list as there are few votes in it.
Commercial property;
http://www.reuters.com/article/britain-eu-property...
But that could lead to more demand as firms see cheap property and decide that they should move to London.
Derek Smith said:
You didn't feel like explaining your interpretation of the figures then.
It is unlikely that the amount of money from research will be maintained post exit. You might be of a different opinion of course. However, it is not a simple, nor unpolitical calculation. Just adding up and taking away is an easy out, but it is shallow, and wrong. Extra money will have to be found. If it can come from the 'savings' from the EU budget, then great. But there will be other claimants for it, including the NHS. Whatever the exit route, it is likely to cost a considerable amount of money.
Politicians will have to make the decisions and opting for something so esoteric as knowledge is not high on their list as there are few votes in it.
That remains to be seen. As you well know, there are more demands for public money than there is money available, so priority calls have to be made.It is unlikely that the amount of money from research will be maintained post exit. You might be of a different opinion of course. However, it is not a simple, nor unpolitical calculation. Just adding up and taking away is an easy out, but it is shallow, and wrong. Extra money will have to be found. If it can come from the 'savings' from the EU budget, then great. But there will be other claimants for it, including the NHS. Whatever the exit route, it is likely to cost a considerable amount of money.
Politicians will have to make the decisions and opting for something so esoteric as knowledge is not high on their list as there are few votes in it.
What is clearly misleading is to pretend that we've genuinely lost this £3bn from the EU - we still have that money, it was actually ours in the first place, but the government MAY decide to spend it differently.
jjlynn27 said:
Commercial property;
http://www.reuters.com/article/britain-eu-property...
But that could lead to more demand as firms see cheap property and decide that they should move to London.
Are those investors 'gated' in the funds still attracting a 4% yield (upto)?http://www.reuters.com/article/britain-eu-property...
But that could lead to more demand as firms see cheap property and decide that they should move to London.
sidicks said:
That remains to be seen. As you well know, there are more demands for public money than there is money available, so priority calls have to be made.
What is clearly misleading is to pretend that we've genuinely lost this £3bn from the EU - we still have that money, it was actually ours in the first place, but the government MAY decide to spend it differently.
It is, though, likely to be a loss to research, isn't it. As I pointed out, the government's priorities are for what gains them votes in the main. There was something about this in the New Scientist editorial, I think last week. As I read it I realised that the author had his fingers crossed.What is clearly misleading is to pretend that we've genuinely lost this £3bn from the EU - we still have that money, it was actually ours in the first place, but the government MAY decide to spend it differently.
It's gone.
I know that this came up in the Scottish devolution discussions, but I cannot see this real world impact/cost mentioned here?
Are we in the UK having to pick up the external legal cost of all the negotiations (Lots of Divorce lawyers in lots of meetings for both sides)?
Or, can we confirm that the EU will pick up the overall lawyer tab for however long it takes, to redraft all the relevant historic treaties?
Are we in the UK having to pick up the external legal cost of all the negotiations (Lots of Divorce lawyers in lots of meetings for both sides)?
Or, can we confirm that the EU will pick up the overall lawyer tab for however long it takes, to redraft all the relevant historic treaties?
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