The "Norwegian model" - what's up with it?

[Dog Star]

God help me as it's another Brexit thread - however I'm hoping the subject matter is justified in me bringing this up (and I can't see anything else on this subject).

This "Norway model" that is postulated as a way forwards - according to many it's a bit rubbish; they still have to pay pretty well the same amount to access the EU markets, submit to free movement of people etc but have no say in EU affairs.

What's the advantage of it then? It looks a bit pants; why don't they just join the EU?

[Mrr T]

Dog Star said:

God help me as it's another Brexit thread - however I'm hoping the subject matter is justified in me bringing this up (and I can't see anything else on this subject).

This "Norway model" that is postulated as a way forwards - according to many it's a bit rubbish; they still have to pay pretty well the same amount to access the EU markets, submit to free movement of people etc but have no say in EU affairs.

What's the advantage of it then? It looks a bit pants; why don't they just join the EU?

http://www.civitas.org.uk/reports_articles/the-norwegian-way-a-case-study-for-britains-future-relationship-with-the-eu/

http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf

[Dog Star]

Mrr T said:

http://www.civitas.org.uk/reports_articles/the-nor...

http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf

That's a big read!

[Puggit]

In essence the Norway model is almost the same as we have now, except we're not part of the EU Council, Parliament etc. This means we have no say in the EU regulations.

However, unless we are trading with EU entities, we don't need to worry about the regulations. 86% of UK companies do not trade with the EU. A huge amount of red tape could be removed (slowly).

Almost certainly, EU immigration would be the same as it is now. The EU would probably try and maintain fishing rights - but that is up for discussion.

We'd be free though - free to sign trade agreements with anyone and everyone. Free to remove EU laws from the statute books (please see other threads for the total volume!!!).

[Mark Benson]

Puggit said:

In essence the Norway model is almost the same as we have now, except we're not part of the EU Council, Parliament etc. This means we have no say in the EU regulations.

However, unless we are trading with EU entities, we don't need to worry about the regulations. 86% of UK companies do not trade with the EU. A huge amount of red tape could be removed (slowly).

Almost certainly, EU immigration would be the same as it is now. The EU would probably try and maintain fishing rights - but that is up for discussion.

We'd be free though - free to sign trade agreements with anyone and everyone. Free to remove EU laws from the statute books (please see other threads for the total volume!!!).

I suspect though, we could do better if we were to negotiate hard.

Which I have no confidence in the current crop of politicians doing.....

[jjlynn27]

Puggit,

Do you personally think that it would be worth it?

Let's say with free labour movement (from memory people have 6mths to find work)
No change to fisheries
Keeping fin pass

[Art0ir]

They also have a seat at global organisations and head up some committees allowing them to protect their own interests.

The reality is a lot of regulation now comes from supranational organisations that supercede even the EU. Having a say at this level gives a nation a lot of power.

[ralphrj]

I tried to start a thread talking about EFTA (where Norway sits) over the weekend but the mods closed it immediately as they point blank refused to have any more EU/referendum threads.

My suggestion was that adopting a Norwegian style deal via membership of EFTA could be step 1 of a 2 step exit from the EU as we could negotiate deals with other countries whilst still being within the single market. We could then leave EFTA when we were happy that we had everything in place.

[Puggit]

jjlynn27 said:

Puggit,

Do you personally think that it would be worth it?

Let's say with free labour movement (from memory people have 6mths to find work)
No change to fisheries
Keeping fin pass

My personal problem with the EU is the loss of sovereignty, the fact that a large group of other countries can club together and create legislation that impacts the UK negatively.

Personally, I'm fine with the immigration. The financial passport is critical. The fisheries would be difficult to stomach - but I'd wager keeping the passport is more important than the fish, if you analyse the impact to the economy...

[The Don of Croy]

Would we have to price alcohol the same as our Nordic cousins?

[Puggit]

The Don of Croy said:

Would we have to price alcohol the same as our Nordic cousins?

Can you imagine having to visit a state run shop just to purchase a 6 pack?

[jjlynn27]

Puggit said:

My personal problem with the EU is the loss of sovereignty, the fact that a large group of other countries can club together and create legislation that impacts the UK negatively.

Personally, I'm fine with the immigration. The financial passport is critical. The fisheries would be difficult to stomach - but I'd wager keeping the passport is more important than the fish, if you analyse the impact to the economy...

Ok I understand all that. I agree with most of that.
But Norway model does exclude Britain from making any decisions.
I'm genuinely interested if you would be pro-Norwegian model.

IMO there are always going to be compromises, people who say; 'fvck them, we should just rely on WTO' are, IMO, very short sighted.

[jjlynn27]

ralphrj said:

I tried to start a thread talking about EFTA (where Norway sits) over the weekend but the mods closed it immediately as they point blank refused to have any more EU/referendum threads.

My suggestion was that adopting a Norwegian style deal via membership of EFTA could be step 1 of a 2 step exit from the EU as we could negotiate deals with other countries whilst still being within the single market. We could then leave EFTA when we were happy that we had everything in place.

Sorry, does leaving EFTA mean leaving single market, thus defaulting to WTO and new agreements?

[plasticpig]

Puggit said:

In essence the Norway model is almost the same as we have now, except we're not part of the EU Council, Parliament etc. This means we have no say in the EU regulations.

However, unless we are trading with EU entities, we don't need to worry about the regulations. 86% of UK companies do not trade with the EU. A huge amount of red tape could be removed (slowly).

Almost certainly, EU immigration would be the same as it is now. The EU would probably try and maintain fishing rights - but that is up for discussion.

We'd be free though - free to sign trade agreements with anyone and everyone. Free to remove EU laws from the statute books (please see other threads for the total volume!!!).

What you say is in theory true, However Norway has imposed massive import duty for cheeses and meats and seems to have got away with it for several years. The import duty for cheese is 277%

[Major T]

Dog Star said:

That's a big read!

that's a good read! You get the gist from the first couple of pages.

edit: it also suggests the norwegian way is better than reported/understood.

Edited by Major T on Wednesday 29th June 11:45

[Mark Benson]

I think the Norwegian model, or a 'Norway Plus' model where we retain a bit more independece (Finpass, fishing etc.) is probably the right one and as close to the 'reformed EU' the remain campaign promised as we could hope to get.

However you have an awful lot of people who don't want to continue to see unchecked numbers of EU citizens coming to the UK. It's an issue that is likely to divide the country once more, and migration will be likely to rise once the living wage becomes law, as low paid work in the UK will offer an equivalent of the average wage in some of the poorer EU countries.

That's the issue the politicians are going to have to tackle, either mitigate the effects on areas of the NE, South Wales and the Midlands and be seen to be doing so, or face the prospect of fomenting some real nastiness in those areas as people feel even more disenfranchised and duped by Westminster.

[Puggit]

jjlynn27 said:

Ok I understand all that. I agree with most of that.
But Norway model does exclude Britain from making any decisions.
I'm genuinely interested if you would be pro-Norwegian model.

IMO there are always going to be compromises, people who say; 'fvck them, we should just rely on WTO' are, IMO, very short sighted.

I personally would support the Norway model - but anyone who voted to end immigration would certainly not (and £350m pw).

The Norway model is the best of both worlds. Financial stability as we exit the political EU, and freedom to go our own way in the World. It's as close to the EEC as the people of the UK voted for in the 70s.

[V8A*ndy]

The Don of Croy said:

Would we have to price alcohol the same as our Nordic cousins?

How else will they fund the move to all electric cars?

[ralphrj]

jjlynn27 said:

Sorry, does leaving EFTA mean leaving single market, thus defaulting to WTO and new agreements?

Yes, leaving EFTA would mean leaving the single market but we could use our time in EFTA to negotiate our own trade deals.


My suggestion is:

Step 1. Leave EU, join EFTA - remain in the single market but be free to negotiate our own trade deals for the day we are ready to go it alone.

Step 2. Leave EFTA - outside the single market but having already negotiated trade deals with other countries.

[jjlynn27]

Puggit said:

jjlynn27 said:

Ok I understand all that. I agree with most of that.
But Norway model does exclude Britain from making any decisions.
I'm genuinely interested if you would be pro-Norwegian model.

IMO there are always going to be compromises, people who say; 'fvck them, we should just rely on WTO' are, IMO, very short sighted.

I personally would support the Norway model - but anyone who voted to end immigration would certainly not (and £350m pw).

The Norway model is the best of both worlds. Financial stability as we exit the political EU, and freedom to go our own way in the World. It's as close to the EEC as the people of the UK voted for in the 70s.

That, and (if not obvious) I voted remain, as long as we establish/keep fin passporting would work for me too. The tradeof, therefore, seems to be giving up voting on EU matters, in return for being able to negotiate deals elsewhere (if I'm not mistaken this goes under sovereignity?).

In any case don't any problem with it. Would be good to keep hand on at least some EU decisions, but that will just not happen.