The "Norwegian model" - what's up with it?
Discussion
johnxjsc1985 said:
whats wrong with the "Norwegian model" not much.
Sorry but just a bit information overloaded.
Couple of things. This is my understanding which is not set in stone so corrections are more than welcome.Sorry but just a bit information overloaded.
- Includes free movement of labour with access to the free market. (No change in immigration policy)
- Will pay same/similar amount of money for access to that free market (£350m/w or whatever the net figure is)
- No vote on EU decisions ( this is disputable as apparently EEA does influence EU decisions - probably more to it)
- You get to negotiate deals with whoever you want / and seats on trading/political bodies.
I'm sure I missed something too.
For those concerned about such things, we perhaps won't need to leave EFTA in order to control immigration as we now have the Liechtenstein Solution.
http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86122
http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86122
Article said:
Almost too late, we discovered something hidden in plain sight: the fact that the EU has been quite willing to negotiate with one of the three Efta/EEA states on freedom of movement. Furthermore, they have come to an amicable solution, which has allowed it to secure an amendment to the treaty giving it a permanent opt-out to freedom of movement. The state concerned now operates a quota system little different in principle to the Australian points system.
That the state is the principality of Liechtenstein need not worry us. It may be a tiny micro-state with a population of 37,000 spread over an area of 61 square miles – less than half the area of the Isle of Wight – but it is a fully-fledged Contracting Party to the EEA Agreement. It has assumed exactly the same rights and responsibilities as any other Efta state.
That the state is the principality of Liechtenstein need not worry us. It may be a tiny micro-state with a population of 37,000 spread over an area of 61 square miles – less than half the area of the Isle of Wight – but it is a fully-fledged Contracting Party to the EEA Agreement. It has assumed exactly the same rights and responsibilities as any other Efta state.
jurbie said:
For those concerned about such things, we perhaps won't need to leave EFTA in order to control immigration as we now have the Liechtenstein Solution.
http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86122
Two problems: we are not in EFTA and they almost certainly wouldn't let us join the EEA or EFTA on this basis http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86122
Article said:
Almost too late, we discovered something hidden in plain sight: the fact that the EU has been quite willing to negotiate with one of the three Efta/EEA states on freedom of movement. Furthermore, they have come to an amicable solution, which has allowed it to secure an amendment to the treaty giving it a permanent opt-out to freedom of movement. The state concerned now operates a quota system little different in principle to the Australian points system.
That the state is the principality of Liechtenstein need not worry us. It may be a tiny micro-state with a population of 37,000 spread over an area of 61 square miles – less than half the area of the Isle of Wight – but it is a fully-fledged Contracting Party to the EEA Agreement. It has assumed exactly the same rights and responsibilities as any other Efta state.
That the state is the principality of Liechtenstein need not worry us. It may be a tiny micro-state with a population of 37,000 spread over an area of 61 square miles – less than half the area of the Isle of Wight – but it is a fully-fledged Contracting Party to the EEA Agreement. It has assumed exactly the same rights and responsibilities as any other Efta state.
ralphrj said:
Yes, leaving EFTA would mean leaving the single market but we could use our time in EFTA to negotiate our own trade deals.
My suggestion is:
Step 1. Leave EU, join EFTA - remain in the single market but be free to negotiate our own trade deals for the day we are ready to go it alone.
Step 2. Leave EFTA - outside the single market but having already negotiated trade deals with other countries.
What you're describing is sort of along the lines of what the people behind "Flexit" are proposing. Well worth looking into.My suggestion is:
Step 1. Leave EU, join EFTA - remain in the single market but be free to negotiate our own trade deals for the day we are ready to go it alone.
Step 2. Leave EFTA - outside the single market but having already negotiated trade deals with other countries.
Zod said:
Two problems: we are not in EFTA and they almost certainly wouldn't let us join the EEA or EFTA on this basis
Who is "they"?It's not up to the EU whether we join EFTA, it's up to its four current members.
http://icelandreview.com/news/2016/06/27/efta-plan...
The Norwegian model has some nice bits to it (I think I still have the picture in my head 
), but at present it should only be regarded as a yardstick.
We are not Norway. The Norwegian model was negotiated based upon the circumstances of the respective parties. Our circumstances, and those of the EU following our exit will be very different. I would expect it to be possible to negotiate additional facets to the terms and conditions beyond that which Norway has (and equally some that they have could be regarded as sacrificial to us).
), but at present it should only be regarded as a yardstick.We are not Norway. The Norwegian model was negotiated based upon the circumstances of the respective parties. Our circumstances, and those of the EU following our exit will be very different. I would expect it to be possible to negotiate additional facets to the terms and conditions beyond that which Norway has (and equally some that they have could be regarded as sacrificial to us).
Zod said:
Two problems: we are not in EFTA and they almost certainly wouldn't let us join the EEA or EFTA on this basis
Not sure about that, I recall reading Dr North saying the other day that we never left the EEA just EfTA ( or the other way round!) I'll go baclick over his stuff see if I can find it. steveatesh said:
Not sure about that, I recall reading Dr North saying the other day that we never left the EEA just EfTA ( or the other way round!) I'll go baclick over his stuff see if I can find it.
To be in EEA you must be a member of EU or EFTA or have a special agreement in place. EEA members have to approve new members.So, we're currently in EEA but will lose that status unless we negotiate membership of EFTA or something else and we have to hope that EEA members will approve our new/continued membership.
Fundamental to EEA membership is free movement of people. Maybe we should have voted to leave that instead?
Wikipedia article on EFTA said:
Free movement of people within the EEA
A citizen of an EFTA country can live and work in all other EFTA countries and in all EU countries, and a citizen of an EU country can live and work in all EFTA countries (but for voting and working in sensitive fields, such as government / police / military, citizenship is often required, and non-citizens may not have the same rights to welfare and unemployment benefits as citizens).
A citizen of an EFTA country can live and work in all other EFTA countries and in all EU countries, and a citizen of an EU country can live and work in all EFTA countries (but for voting and working in sensitive fields, such as government / police / military, citizenship is often required, and non-citizens may not have the same rights to welfare and unemployment benefits as citizens).
There's a benefit of being in EFTA that never seems to be mentioned, and it's significant-- we'd be outside the EU customs union, so we'd no longer have to charge import duties on non-EU agricultural and other goods. We do at the moment, and, by keeping the price of those goods artificially high inside the EU, it amounts to a transfer of a lot of money from EU countries with small agricultural sectors, such as us, to those with larger ones, such as France.
Someone upthread said that Norway puts big tariffs on things like cheese. But that's because they can. It's their choice. The UK, being of a generally non-protectionist outlook, could do away with all these counterproductive import tariffs.
Someone upthread said that Norway puts big tariffs on things like cheese. But that's because they can. It's their choice. The UK, being of a generally non-protectionist outlook, could do away with all these counterproductive import tariffs.
Art0ir said:
They also have a seat at global organisations and head up some committees allowing them to protect their own interests.
The reality is a lot of regulation now comes from supranational organisations that supercede even the EU. Having a say at this level gives a nation a lot of power.
^^^^^^^^^^The reality is a lot of regulation now comes from supranational organisations that supercede even the EU. Having a say at this level gives a nation a lot of power.
This, this, this and this.
Most regulations - certainly transport (look up UNECE WP.29) and food related (Codex Alimentarius) - now derive from UN/global bodies, on which most countries such as Norway and the UK currently have a seat. When it comes to a vote, however, all EU members must act unanimously, so all 28 votes go together one way or the other. Norway can exercise its vote independently.
ralphrj said:
Hmm, I hope we haven't done anything stupid to any of those countries in the last few years like seizing their assets under anti-terrorism legislation...
Hey, why do you think England looked even more listless than usual on Monday night? Direct orders from Whitehall. Let the Icelanders win.desolate said:
phil-sti said:
I doubt the UK would agree to any deal that still allowed free movement of EU migrants. Do Norway still have to listen to the EU court of human rights?
It's the European court of human rights, not the EU.We didn't vote on that as it's a completely separate institution.
ralphrj said:
king arthur said:
It's not up to the EU whether we join EFTA, it's up to its four current members.
Hmm, I hope we haven't done anything stupid to any of those countries in the last few years like seizing their assets under anti-terrorism legislation...
http://www.thelocal.no/20160627/iceland-president-...
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