The "Norwegian model" - what's up with it?
Discussion
It's worth noting some fundamental differences of the UK compared to the Noggies.
- Norway has shed loads of money due to their petroleum production, they have already established a wealth fund with several years national budget salted away for another day. The UK is extremely in debt.
- Norway has a positive trade balance with the EU due to aforementioned petroleum products. The UK imports far more from the EU than it exports.
The first point is relevant because it is not in the interests of a very wealthy country to join the EU and to then be in line for bail out contributions as the EU goes down the stter due the € imbalances.
Regarding second point, it is worth Norway paying the EU "subscription" as they can then make plenty of wonga selling oil and gas to the common market. Whether it is worth the UK paying the same per capita subscription is debatable, this has to be weighed up by someone holding all the relevant financial data.
- Norway has shed loads of money due to their petroleum production, they have already established a wealth fund with several years national budget salted away for another day. The UK is extremely in debt.
- Norway has a positive trade balance with the EU due to aforementioned petroleum products. The UK imports far more from the EU than it exports.
The first point is relevant because it is not in the interests of a very wealthy country to join the EU and to then be in line for bail out contributions as the EU goes down the stter due the € imbalances.
Regarding second point, it is worth Norway paying the EU "subscription" as they can then make plenty of wonga selling oil and gas to the common market. Whether it is worth the UK paying the same per capita subscription is debatable, this has to be weighed up by someone holding all the relevant financial data.
steveatesh said:
ehhttp://www.thelocal.no/20160628/norway-pm-wont-com...
Saying that, if you read the article it was very pragmatic and very 'lets see what are the maximum benefit for Norway'. Which is perfectly fine. And I can see how it's good news for Norway, just by proxy they have more clout.
Saying that if Boris and Co are not complite chums they would already send someone over there to 'start the talks'.
Interesting times.
ETA: Brit held for throwing pie at Norways equality Minister.
http://www.thelocal.no/20160628/brit-held-for-thro...
Edited by jjlynn27 on Thursday 30th June 01:31
Norwegian politicians have wanted to join the EU for decades (because: politicians), but the Norwegian people do not and have rejected it at two referenda. So instead, the Norwegian politicians signed up to all the EU's crap without officially joining.
If our lot go for something similar you will know they have bottled it and are selling the country out. Again.
So that's what will probably happen.
If our lot go for something similar you will know they have bottled it and are selling the country out. Again.
So that's what will probably happen.
Beati Dogu said:
Norwegian politicians have wanted to join the EU for decades (because: politicians), but the Norwegian people do not and have rejected it at two referenda. So instead, the Norwegian politicians signed up to all the EU's crap without officially joining.
If our lot go for something similar you will know they have bottled it and are selling the country out. Again.
So that's what will probably happen.
Johnson in particular, but others in the exit campaign, suggested this as an option before the vote. Indeed it was on a flyer distributed in my town centre. So far from bottling it, it would be fulfilling a promise, although why this one should be sacrosanct is beyond sense.If our lot go for something similar you will know they have bottled it and are selling the country out. Again.
So that's what will probably happen.
However, it is unlikely that the EU will agree to the favourable terms it gave Norway. This will cost us. It will probably cost us more than the suggested costs the exit campaign lied about so frequently.
Derek Smith said:
Beati Dogu said:
Norwegian politicians have wanted to join the EU for decades (because: politicians), but the Norwegian people do not and have rejected it at two referenda. So instead, the Norwegian politicians signed up to all the EU's crap without officially joining.
If our lot go for something similar you will know they have bottled it and are selling the country out. Again.
So that's what will probably happen.
Johnson in particular, but others in the exit campaign, suggested this as an option before the vote. Indeed it was on a flyer distributed in my town centre. So far from bottling it, it would be fulfilling a promise, although why this one should be sacrosanct is beyond sense.If our lot go for something similar you will know they have bottled it and are selling the country out. Again.
So that's what will probably happen.
However, it is unlikely that the EU will agree to the favourable terms it gave Norway. This will cost us. It will probably cost us more than the suggested costs the exit campaign lied about so frequently.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/10/u...
and (for example) we buy more than 10% of all BMWs
http://www.statista.com/statistics/267252/key-auto...
so will be interesting to see how someone like Germany chooses to negotiate.
Derek Smith said:
Johnson in particular, but others in the exit campaign, suggested this as an option before the vote. Indeed it was on a flyer distributed in my town centre. So far from bottling it, it would be fulfilling a promise, although why this one should be sacrosanct is beyond sense.
However, it is unlikely that the EU will agree to the favourable terms it gave Norway. This will cost us. It will probably cost us more than the suggested costs the exit campaign lied about so frequently.
Maybe and maybe not. Personally I think this will be a political game rather than an economic one. The last thing the EU will want to do at a time of Putin looking west is to put the UKs defence budget at risk. However, it is unlikely that the EU will agree to the favourable terms it gave Norway. This will cost us. It will probably cost us more than the suggested costs the exit campaign lied about so frequently.
I think there will be lots of posturing but ultimately its in every bodies interests to preserve the economy, and that's a political decision. Of course the EU may say one thing and national parliaments may say another - after all it's them who are at risk of the ballot box, not the Brussels crowd.
Interesting to see the sensible discussion on the thread and that the subject is recognised. Considering that for most of the campaign there were a few isolated voices with the rest either studiously ignoring or downright dismissive based on incorrect facts.
Some people would come out with the line my work here is done. But it isn't.
Just a quick comment that there is a specific reason that the plan and many of the principles within it is named Flexcit. The key part is flex from flexible, simply because there are a lot of options around a central theme, and whilst that central theme may generally be based on an exit into a first stage EFTA/EEA position, there's a lot of possibilities around that. It's not correct just to think of it as Norway clone, oh no. People need to remember that, the Norway position is not the be and end all, where we want to go and where we exit to will be influenced by many factors and decisions yet to be decided.
Some people would come out with the line my work here is done. But it isn't.
Just a quick comment that there is a specific reason that the plan and many of the principles within it is named Flexcit. The key part is flex from flexible, simply because there are a lot of options around a central theme, and whilst that central theme may generally be based on an exit into a first stage EFTA/EEA position, there's a lot of possibilities around that. It's not correct just to think of it as Norway clone, oh no. People need to remember that, the Norway position is not the be and end all, where we want to go and where we exit to will be influenced by many factors and decisions yet to be decided.
king arthur said:
Zod said:
Two problems: we are not in EFTA and they almost certainly wouldn't let us join the EEA or EFTA on this basis
Who is "they"?It's not up to the EU whether we join EFTA, it's up to its four current members.
http://icelandreview.com/news/2016/06/27/efta-plan...
In the case of the EEA, it means the EEA-EFTA members plus the EU 27.
Puggit said:
Can you imagine having to visit a state run shop just to purchase a 6 pack?
wst said:
Puggit said:
Can you imagine having to visit a state run shop just to purchase a 6 pack?
jshell said:
wst said:
Puggit said:
Can you imagine having to visit a state run shop just to purchase a 6 pack?
Zod said:
jshell said:
wst said:
Puggit said:
Can you imagine having to visit a state run shop just to purchase a 6 pack?
jshell said:
Zod said:
jshell said:
wst said:
Puggit said:
Can you imagine having to visit a state run shop just to purchase a 6 pack?
Zod said:
jshell said:
Zod said:
jshell said:
wst said:
Puggit said:
Can you imagine having to visit a state run shop just to purchase a 6 pack?
wst said:
Puggit said:
Can you imagine having to visit a state run shop just to purchase a 6 pack?
Also, it isn't that expensive. Last time I was there the prices were the same as an offie in the UK. You just don't get the special offers - 8 cans for a fiver, etc - which is no great hardship.
jshell said:
Norway is bad already. Colleague's friend bought a TV with cash and the Police were at his door before he was. Where did you get the cash? Norway's obsession with tax means that it's better to rape than evade tax in terms of punishment.
I'm amazed the took the money, based on my own experiences, I went over there for a weekend to help a mate set his flat up/get drunk and he tried buying a few bits of furniture with cash and they refused to take it due to the sum involved! It wasn't even that much, in the grand scheme of things.
Beati Dogu said:
Home brew must be a big thing in Scandinavia I would have thought.
It is. More so in Norway as booze is expensive everywhere. Sweden just seems to be expensive in bars, restaurants, etc.I think it's more prevalent in the remote areas of Sweden with fewer shops. Those long winter nights need something to make them pass quicker.
boxxob said:
Beati Dogu said:
Home brew must be a big thing in Scandinavia I would have thought.
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