The "Norwegian model" - what's up with it?

The "Norwegian model" - what's up with it?

Author
Discussion

B'stard Child

28,324 posts

245 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Axionknight said:
I quoted you so people skimming the thread have to see her twice.
That was three but no harm

YankeePorker

4,763 posts

240 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
It's worth noting some fundamental differences of the UK compared to the Noggies.

- Norway has shed loads of money due to their petroleum production, they have already established a wealth fund with several years national budget salted away for another day. The UK is extremely in debt.

- Norway has a positive trade balance with the EU due to aforementioned petroleum products. The UK imports far more from the EU than it exports.

The first point is relevant because it is not in the interests of a very wealthy country to join the EU and to then be in line for bail out contributions as the EU goes down the stter due the € imbalances.

Regarding second point, it is worth Norway paying the EU "subscription" as they can then make plenty of wonga selling oil and gas to the common market. Whether it is worth the UK paying the same per capita subscription is debatable, this has to be weighed up by someone holding all the relevant financial data.

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
steveatesh said:
This article suggests it will be fine:

http://www.thelocal.no/20160627/iceland-president-...
eh

http://www.thelocal.no/20160628/norway-pm-wont-com...


Saying that, if you read the article it was very pragmatic and very 'lets see what are the maximum benefit for Norway'. Which is perfectly fine. And I can see how it's good news for Norway, just by proxy they have more clout.
Saying that if Boris and Co are not complite chums they would already send someone over there to 'start the talks'.

Interesting times.

ETA: Brit held for throwing pie at Norways equality Minister.

http://www.thelocal.no/20160628/brit-held-for-thro...


Edited by jjlynn27 on Thursday 30th June 01:31

Beati Dogu

8,862 posts

138 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Norwegian politicians have wanted to join the EU for decades (because: politicians), but the Norwegian people do not and have rejected it at two referenda. So instead, the Norwegian politicians signed up to all the EU's crap without officially joining.

If our lot go for something similar you will know they have bottled it and are selling the country out. Again.

So that's what will probably happen.







Derek Smith

45,514 posts

247 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Beati Dogu said:
Norwegian politicians have wanted to join the EU for decades (because: politicians), but the Norwegian people do not and have rejected it at two referenda. So instead, the Norwegian politicians signed up to all the EU's crap without officially joining.

If our lot go for something similar you will know they have bottled it and are selling the country out. Again.

So that's what will probably happen.
Johnson in particular, but others in the exit campaign, suggested this as an option before the vote. Indeed it was on a flyer distributed in my town centre. So far from bottling it, it would be fulfilling a promise, although why this one should be sacrosanct is beyond sense.

However, it is unlikely that the EU will agree to the favourable terms it gave Norway. This will cost us. It will probably cost us more than the suggested costs the exit campaign lied about so frequently.

Derek Chevalier

3,942 posts

172 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
Beati Dogu said:
Norwegian politicians have wanted to join the EU for decades (because: politicians), but the Norwegian people do not and have rejected it at two referenda. So instead, the Norwegian politicians signed up to all the EU's crap without officially joining.

If our lot go for something similar you will know they have bottled it and are selling the country out. Again.

So that's what will probably happen.
Johnson in particular, but others in the exit campaign, suggested this as an option before the vote. Indeed it was on a flyer distributed in my town centre. So far from bottling it, it would be fulfilling a promise, although why this one should be sacrosanct is beyond sense.

However, it is unlikely that the EU will agree to the favourable terms it gave Norway. This will cost us. It will probably cost us more than the suggested costs the exit campaign lied about so frequently.
It's worth bearing in mind that we import more than we export

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/10/u...

and (for example) we buy more than 10% of all BMWs

http://www.statista.com/statistics/267252/key-auto...

so will be interesting to see how someone like Germany chooses to negotiate.


steveatesh

4,893 posts

163 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
Johnson in particular, but others in the exit campaign, suggested this as an option before the vote. Indeed it was on a flyer distributed in my town centre. So far from bottling it, it would be fulfilling a promise, although why this one should be sacrosanct is beyond sense.

However, it is unlikely that the EU will agree to the favourable terms it gave Norway. This will cost us. It will probably cost us more than the suggested costs the exit campaign lied about so frequently.
Maybe and maybe not. Personally I think this will be a political game rather than an economic one. The last thing the EU will want to do at a time of Putin looking west is to put the UKs defence budget at risk.

I think there will be lots of posturing but ultimately its in every bodies interests to preserve the economy, and that's a political decision. Of course the EU may say one thing and national parliaments may say another - after all it's them who are at risk of the ballot box, not the Brussels crowd.

FiF

43,964 posts

250 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Interesting to see the sensible discussion on the thread and that the subject is recognised. Considering that for most of the campaign there were a few isolated voices with the rest either studiously ignoring or downright dismissive based on incorrect facts.


Some people would come out with the line my work here is done. But it isn't.

Just a quick comment that there is a specific reason that the plan and many of the principles within it is named Flexcit. The key part is flex from flexible, simply because there are a lot of options around a central theme, and whilst that central theme may generally be based on an exit into a first stage EFTA/EEA position, there's a lot of possibilities around that. It's not correct just to think of it as Norway clone, oh no. People need to remember that, the Norway position is not the be and end all, where we want to go and where we exit to will be influenced by many factors and decisions yet to be decided.

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
king arthur said:
Zod said:
Two problems: we are not in EFTA and they almost certainly wouldn't let us join the EEA or EFTA on this basis
Who is "they"?

It's not up to the EU whether we join EFTA, it's up to its four current members.

http://icelandreview.com/news/2016/06/27/efta-plan...
in the case of EFTA it is the other members, but if we are an EFTA member that does not resolve our relationship with the EU. We would have to negotiate that bilaterally, like Switzerland.

In the case of the EEA, it means the EEA-EFTA members plus the EU 27.

wst

3,494 posts

160 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Puggit said:
eek

Can you imagine having to visit a state run shop just to purchase a 6 pack?
Especially with Theresa May in charge... get a knock on the door with some bloke saying "Our records indicate that you have purchased 25 cans of beer in this arbitrary period... you're going to rehab."

jshell

11,006 posts

204 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
wst said:
Puggit said:
eek

Can you imagine having to visit a state run shop just to purchase a 6 pack?
Especially with Theresa May in charge... get a knock on the door with some bloke saying "Our records indicate that you have purchased 25 cans of beer in this arbitrary period... you're going to rehab."
Norway is bad already. Colleague's friend bought a TV with cash and the Police were at his door before he was. Where did you get the cash? Norway's obsession with tax means that it's better to rape than evade tax in terms of punishment.

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
jshell said:
wst said:
Puggit said:
eek

Can you imagine having to visit a state run shop just to purchase a 6 pack?
Especially with Theresa May in charge... get a knock on the door with some bloke saying "Our records indicate that you have purchased 25 cans of beer in this arbitrary period... you're going to rehab."
Norway is bad already. Colleague's friend bought a TV with cash and the Police were at his door before he was. Where did you get the cash? Norway's obsession with tax means that it's better to rape than evade tax in terms of punishment.
They publish everyone's (yes, everyone's) tax return one day every year and the information is all over the papers. Imagine that in the UK.

jshell

11,006 posts

204 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Zod said:
jshell said:
wst said:
Puggit said:
eek

Can you imagine having to visit a state run shop just to purchase a 6 pack?
Especially with Theresa May in charge... get a knock on the door with some bloke saying "Our records indicate that you have purchased 25 cans of beer in this arbitrary period... you're going to rehab."
Norway is bad already. Colleague's friend bought a TV with cash and the Police were at his door before he was. Where did you get the cash? Norway's obsession with tax means that it's better to rape than evade tax in terms of punishment.
They publish everyone's (yes, everyone's) tax return one day every year and the information is all over the papers. Imagine that in the UK.
I don't have to, I work in Norway! However, they've changed the system so that you need to log in now to see everyone's return, and they can see that you've searched...

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
jshell said:
Zod said:
jshell said:
wst said:
Puggit said:
eek

Can you imagine having to visit a state run shop just to purchase a 6 pack?
Especially with Theresa May in charge... get a knock on the door with some bloke saying "Our records indicate that you have purchased 25 cans of beer in this arbitrary period... you're going to rehab."
Norway is bad already. Colleague's friend bought a TV with cash and the Police were at his door before he was. Where did you get the cash? Norway's obsession with tax means that it's better to rape than evade tax in terms of punishment.
They publish everyone's (yes, everyone's) tax return one day every year and the information is all over the papers. Imagine that in the UK.
I don't have to, I work in Norway! However, they've changed the system so that you need to log in now to see everyone's return, and they can see that you've searched...
I bet that doesn't stop people, does it?

jshell

11,006 posts

204 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Zod said:
jshell said:
Zod said:
jshell said:
wst said:
Puggit said:
eek

Can you imagine having to visit a state run shop just to purchase a 6 pack?
Especially with Theresa May in charge... get a knock on the door with some bloke saying "Our records indicate that you have purchased 25 cans of beer in this arbitrary period... you're going to rehab."
Norway is bad already. Colleague's friend bought a TV with cash and the Police were at his door before he was. Where did you get the cash? Norway's obsession with tax means that it's better to rape than evade tax in terms of punishment.
They publish everyone's (yes, everyone's) tax return one day every year and the information is all over the papers. Imagine that in the UK.
I don't have to, I work in Norway! However, they've changed the system so that you need to log in now to see everyone's return, and they can see that you've searched...
I bet that doesn't stop people, does it?
No, but they're sneaky bds and don't want to be seen doing it! Very underhand, passive aggressive place.

AJL308

6,390 posts

155 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
wst said:
Puggit said:
eek

Can you imagine having to visit a state run shop just to purchase a 6 pack?
Especially with Theresa May in charge... get a knock on the door with some bloke saying "Our records indicate that you have purchased 25 cans of beer in this arbitrary period... you're going to rehab."
The state run offies in Sweden are actually quite good. Because it's state run they are obliged to stock every type of alcoholic drink imported into the Country. So, you get a massive choice. You choose from a catalogue like Argus. If a particular shop hasn't got you want they will get it by the following day.

Also, it isn't that expensive. Last time I was there the prices were the same as an offie in the UK. You just don't get the special offers - 8 cans for a fiver, etc - which is no great hardship.

Beati Dogu

8,862 posts

138 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Home brew must be a big thing in Scandinavia I would have thought.

Axionknight

8,505 posts

134 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
jshell said:
Norway is bad already. Colleague's friend bought a TV with cash and the Police were at his door before he was. Where did you get the cash? Norway's obsession with tax means that it's better to rape than evade tax in terms of punishment.
I'm amazed the took the money, based on my own experiences, I went over there for a weekend to help a mate set his flat up/get drunk and he tried buying a few bits of furniture with cash and they refused to take it due to the sum involved!

It wasn't even that much, in the grand scheme of things. hehe

AJL308

6,390 posts

155 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
Beati Dogu said:
Home brew must be a big thing in Scandinavia I would have thought.
It is. More so in Norway as booze is expensive everywhere. Sweden just seems to be expensive in bars, restaurants, etc.

I think it's more prevalent in the remote areas of Sweden with fewer shops. Those long winter nights need something to make them pass quicker.

Axionknight

8,505 posts

134 months

Thursday 30th June 2016
quotequote all
boxxob said:
Beati Dogu said:
Home brew must be a big thing in Scandinavia I would have thought.
And brief stops by scottish vessels..
Yep, my aforementioned friend used to crew a boat that made frequent stops in Norway, security was lax and he used to take them bottles of Scotch that were far cheaper here in the UK, often by a considerable amount.