Anyone give a toss about Gibraltar's future?
Discussion
V8RX7 said:
Post up the costs and the benefits but I'm sure we could happily muddle along without all 3 - so I don't care.
However it's one thing them wanting to leave, it's another entirely if they are forcibly taken.
Won't happen - the Spanish military would need to start massacring civilians. Not a chance. However it's one thing them wanting to leave, it's another entirely if they are forcibly taken.
Pupp said:
Fittster said:
Pupp said:
That just confirms only a chunk of Hong Kong was leased for 99 years. A lot was the UK's in perpetuity (or until had an army strong enough that we really couldn't do anything about it).
"In 1860, at the end of the Second Opium War, the UK gained a perpetual lease over the Kowloon Peninsula, which is the mainland Chinese area just across the strait from Hong Kong Island. This agreement was part of the Convention of Beijing that ended that conflict.
In 1898, the British and Chinese governments signed the Second Convention of Peking, which included a 99-year lease agreement for the islands surrounding Hong Kong, called the "New Territories." The lease awarded control of more than 200 surrounding small islands to the British. In return, China got a promise that the islands would be returned to it after 99 years.
On December 19, 1984, British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and Chinese Premier Zhao Ziyang signed the Sino-British Joint Declaration, in which Britain agreed to return not only the New Territories but also Kowloon and Hong Kong itself when the lease term expired."
Where does it state we had to give the lot back?
EnglishTony said:
Most of Hong Kong was leased. The island of Hong Kong and Kowloon were ceded in perpetuity but given to China when the lease ran out on the rest of it.
Where that leaves Gibraltar I wouldn't like to say. Sadly if they wish to remain in the EU they might have to accept Spanish control.
In the same way that NI might have to become part of the Republic. Perhaps the Scots, the Cornish and the Welsh could follow suit.
I am sure lots of people would be happy to watch them go.
We don't want anything to do with the EU, thanks very much - see recent vote!!Where that leaves Gibraltar I wouldn't like to say. Sadly if they wish to remain in the EU they might have to accept Spanish control.
In the same way that NI might have to become part of the Republic. Perhaps the Scots, the Cornish and the Welsh could follow suit.
I am sure lots of people would be happy to watch them go.
(And we have Trelawny's Army for our own defence)!
Edited by sidicks on Wednesday 29th June 21:37
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Depends on what you view "Britishness" as. The continuance of Empire days don't resonate with me personally so what advantage someone who's spent their life on a remote tax-advatageous rock as opposed to an "alien" home country mainland tax payer has I don't know. Equally mystified as to why Spain would be that agitated about it either, other than for historical empire reasons.
sidicks said:
EnglishTony said:
Most of Hong Kong was leased. The island of Hong Kong and Kowloon were ceded in perpetuity but given to China when the lease ran out on the rest of it.
Where that leaves Gibraltar I wouldn't like to say. Sadly if they wish to remain in the EU they might have to accept Spanish control.
In the same way that NI might have to become part of the Republic. Perhaps the Scots, the Cornish and the Welsh could follow suit.
I am sure lots of people would be happy to watch them go.
We don't want anything to do with the EU, thanks very much - see recent vote!!Where that leaves Gibraltar I wouldn't like to say. Sadly if they wish to remain in the EU they might have to accept Spanish control.
In the same way that NI might have to become part of the Republic. Perhaps the Scots, the Cornish and the Welsh could follow suit.
I am sure lots of people would be happy to watch them go.
(And we have Trelawney's Army for our own defence)!
I'm a supporter of the right to self determination - and defending this with force.
The choice would be the permanent residents of Gibraltar alone imo.
Spain can get f
ked if they want to take it, they should try to make sure the catalunyans don't declare independence first.
As for Scotland, once the dust settles post brexit and the future is a little clearer they should be given another referendum should they choose it. This would be 4 years from now. I believe we will win that one also. This won't satisfy the snp but Westminster (got it right that time!) really needs to support the north more though.
The choice would be the permanent residents of Gibraltar alone imo.
Spain can get f
ked if they want to take it, they should try to make sure the catalunyans don't declare independence first.As for Scotland, once the dust settles post brexit and the future is a little clearer they should be given another referendum should they choose it. This would be 4 years from now. I believe we will win that one also. This won't satisfy the snp but Westminster (got it right that time!) really needs to support the north more though.
vonuber said:
EnglishTony said:
Most of Hong Kong was leased. The island of Hong Kong and Kowloon were ceded in perpetuity but given to China when the lease ran out on the rest of it.
Where that leaves Gibraltar I wouldn't like to say. Sadly if they wish to remain in the EU they might have to accept Spanish control.
In the same way that NI might have to become part of the Republic. Perhaps the Scots, the Cornish and the Welsh could follow suit.
I am sure lots of people would be happy to watch them go.
Not sure I would be, we are supposed to be the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland plus other bits of rock.Where that leaves Gibraltar I wouldn't like to say. Sadly if they wish to remain in the EU they might have to accept Spanish control.
In the same way that NI might have to become part of the Republic. Perhaps the Scots, the Cornish and the Welsh could follow suit.
I am sure lots of people would be happy to watch them go.
Problem is, once you start banging the sovereignty drum and being able to 'take back our country', you can't really argue with the Scottish nationalists for example.
They want independence.
We would like to stop subsidising them.
Scottish independence strikes me as a win-win situation.
We get to see less of that fishwife Sturgeon on the Telly and the Scots get to see more of her.
I notice that the stupid woman travelled to Brussels today so that she couldn't have a meeting with tusk. It wold have been much cheaper if she hadn't had her meeting with Tusk in Edinburgh.
don4l said:
Why would we want to argue with the Scottish nationalists.
They want independence.
We would like to stop subsidising them.
Scottish independence strikes me as a win-win situation.
We get to see less of that fishwife Sturgeon on the Telly and the Scots get to see more of her.
I notice that the stupid woman travelled to Brussels today so that she couldn't have a meeting with tusk. It wold have been much cheaper if she hadn't had her meeting with
in Edinburgh.
Has she had talks with Cameron?They want independence.
We would like to stop subsidising them.
Scottish independence strikes me as a win-win situation.
We get to see less of that fishwife Sturgeon on the Telly and the Scots get to see more of her.
I notice that the stupid woman travelled to Brussels today so that she couldn't have a meeting with tusk. It wold have been much cheaper if she hadn't had her meeting with
in Edinburgh.
don4l said:
...
They want independence.
...
The last time they were asked, they did not want independence from the UK. I'm pretty sure the same sensible majority would mobilise again if need be (though of course no one really knows).They want independence.
...
And, of course, they've got about as much chance of joining the EU on their own two feet as I have of winning the lottery I suspect.
The whole series of events in Scotland is odd - they vote to stay part of the UK but then let the SNP in with a landslide. It'd be like our vote being to remain part of the UK only for UKIP to win the GE.
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