Anyone give a toss about Gibraltar's future?
Discussion
confused_buyer said:
Has anyone here been to Gib?.
Yes 
I expected it to be a weird little place because I once watched a tv series about Gib where they made it out to be a really odd little town with only a handful of people, most of which were very eccentric.
It wasn't like that at all. It was bigger than I thought, really interesting, and the money that seems to be pouring into it right now is staggering. There were brand new and extremely impressive homes and apartment blocks everywhere, and loads of building going on.
I really liked the place. It kind of felt like it had been neglected and left in the past for the last 30 years, but was rapidly trying to become like Monaco.
NinjaPower said:
confused_buyer said:
Has anyone here been to Gib?.
Yes I expected it to be a weird little place because I once watched a tv series about Gib where they made it out to be a really odd little town with only a handful of people, most of which were very eccentric.
It wasn't like that at all. It was bigger than I thought, really interesting, and the money that seems to be pouring into it right now is staggering. There were brand new and extremely impressive homes and apartment blocks everywhere, and loads of building going on.
I really liked the place. It kind of felt like it had been neglected and left in the past for the last 30 years, but was rapidly trying to become like Monaco.
confused_buyer said:
Has anyone here been to Gib?.
Yes, several times.Also been to Spain many times.
The latter is in no fit state to invade anyone let alone take Gib. It's like having a nasty neighbour who at worst would bluster and spit over the fence, no more.
Anyway, the small long standing Bab's Army* population on the Rock would bite the asses of any Spanish invaders.
Nobody can rid the Rock of them.- Barbary Macaques - the tail-less wild monkeys/apes who will nick your I-phone before you can say Apple.
Speed 3 said:
Prepared for incoming but what exactly is the issue with Gibraltar and why are the UK or the Spanish so wound up about it. The days of strategic naval importance are centuries ago so why would anyone be that fussed about it now ? Their residents must rely almost entirely on the nearest mainland for their day to day existance so why all the angst ?
(I'm a republican BTW so don't give a toss about loyalty to archaic heads of state)
Most freight goes by sea and Gibraltar sits at a chokepoint, so it has great strategic value for the RN and NATO. I suppose Gib could seek independence and impersonate Liechtenstein, but the spanish would doubtless object.(I'm a republican BTW so don't give a toss about loyalty to archaic heads of state)
In 2002 the Blair regime wanted to hold onto the naval base, but hand over the rest to a Anglo-Spanish administration. This was Europe Minister Peter Hain's genius plan to suck up to the EU by seeking to solve the dispute. They actually shook hands on the deal, but a few hours later the Madrid government vetoed it.
A referendum held in Gibraltar a month later came out just shy of 98% wanting to stay British.
A referendum held in Gibraltar a month later came out just shy of 98% wanting to stay British.
k off.What will happen though is the Spanish will put in place a ridiculous visa situation where Gib residents (and UK) will have to apply for a visa to enter Spain. This visa will take a while to be issued and be for a single entry only. The last bit is important as it'll stuff the thousands of UK Gib residents that need to access Spain daily.
Thus the Spanish will retain the all important UK tourist dollar (UK based people will still be able to get their Summer holidays there) but stuff up the Gib's who have to travel daily into Spain.
The UK will do tit for tat but the Spanish won't give a toss about their citizens who can't get into Gib daily.
The border crossing will become an even bigger joke!
Oh, and let's not forget the airport. The Spanish will claim the airspace immediately as disputed and start to enforce this through patrols.
If you're not aware of what's been going on, have a read of this:
http://vox.gi/local/8963-suspension-of-gibraltar-a...
Or google: Gibraltar Airport EU free right of passage
Thus the Spanish will retain the all important UK tourist dollar (UK based people will still be able to get their Summer holidays there) but stuff up the Gib's who have to travel daily into Spain.
The UK will do tit for tat but the Spanish won't give a toss about their citizens who can't get into Gib daily.
The border crossing will become an even bigger joke!
Oh, and let's not forget the airport. The Spanish will claim the airspace immediately as disputed and start to enforce this through patrols.
If you're not aware of what's been going on, have a read of this:
http://vox.gi/local/8963-suspension-of-gibraltar-a...
Or google: Gibraltar Airport EU free right of passage
It's not just the importance of Gibraltar itself, but the principles. Firstly self determination should be upheld, and secondly people should not get the idea that they can grab chunks of British territory in exchange for trade deals etc. We've had 43 years of that and decided against it.
Of course we can now see just how little principles mean to many of our politicians who, having lost the referendum now seem determined to petulantly wreck the UK out of sheer spite.
Of course we can now see just how little principles mean to many of our politicians who, having lost the referendum now seem determined to petulantly wreck the UK out of sheer spite.
robm3 said:
Oh, and let's not forget the airport. The Spanish will claim the airspace immediately as disputed and start to enforce this through patrols.
I think this was the case when the border was closed. Aircraft had to come in from the south and make a very abrupt turn onto the runway to avoid Spanish airspace.It is a funny old place but likeable. As others have said it has got quite wealthy recently. When you cross from Spain you expect it to be pretty much like Spain but with zebra crossings but it isn't - you do feel you have travelled 1200 miles in 3 minutes. All of a sudden it is Pounds, Fish & Chips, Pubs, M&S, Norwich & Peterborough Building Societies etc. not to mention lots of Union Flags and pictures of the Queen.
The Gibraltese all speak Spanish, many have homes in Spain, but they are in no way Spanish in anyway.
Speed 3 said:
Prepared for incoming but what exactly is the issue with Gibraltar and why are the UK or the Spanish so wound up about it. The days of strategic naval importance are centuries ago so why would anyone be that fussed about it now ? Their residents must rely almost entirely on the nearest mainland for their day to day existance so why all the angst ?
(I'm a republican BTW so don't give a toss about loyalty to archaic heads of state)
Loyalty to the monarchy might well be part of the answer, though. It matters quite literally not one iota whether you're a republican (and therefore whether you accept the answer, presumably - why else would you mention it?) or not.(I'm a republican BTW so don't give a toss about loyalty to archaic heads of state)
confused_buyer said:
robm3 said:
Oh, and let's not forget the airport. The Spanish will claim the airspace immediately as disputed and start to enforce this through patrols.
I think this was the case when the border was closed. Aircraft had to come in from the south and make a very abrupt turn onto the runway to avoid Spanish airspace.It is a funny old place but likeable. As others have said it has got quite wealthy recently. When you cross from Spain you expect it to be pretty much like Spain but with zebra crossings but it isn't - you do feel you have travelled 1200 miles in 3 minutes. All of a sudden it is Pounds, Fish & Chips, Pubs, M&S, Norwich & Peterborough Building Societies etc. not to mention lots of Union Flags and pictures of the Queen.
The Gibraltese all speak Spanish, many have homes in Spain, but they are in no way Spanish in anyway.
I did go there when the border was shut, it was a long flight and we had to refuel in France. Odd that you could stand at the crossing where the British gates were open but the Spanish gates were shut. Now it is very busy.
NinjaPower said:
confused_buyer said:
Has anyone here been to Gib?.
Yes I expected it to be a weird little place because I once watched a tv series about Gib where they made it out to be a really odd little town with only a handful of people, most of which were very eccentric.
It wasn't like that at all. It was bigger than I thought, really interesting, and the money that seems to be pouring into it right now is staggering. There were brand new and extremely impressive homes and apartment blocks everywhere, and loads of building going on.
I really liked the place. It kind of felt like it had been neglected and left in the past for the last 30 years, but was rapidly trying to become like Monaco.
Edited by Hosenbugler on Thursday 30th June 08:08
Dog Star said:
confused_buyer said:
Has anyone here been to Gib?
The distrust of the Spanish is huge and runs very deep.
I hope they don't have to choose but given a choice between principle & a closed border and poverty or becoming Spsnish it is pretty obvious which way they'll go. They've done it before.
Damn right. The distrust of the Spanish is huge and runs very deep.
I hope they don't have to choose but given a choice between principle & a closed border and poverty or becoming Spsnish it is pretty obvious which way they'll go. They've done it before.
I spend a few months a year there and they're fiercely patriotic and proud of being British - something a few people on this thread certainly aren't.
They're British subjects, they're loyal, they want to be British - and that's all that matters. Same goes for the Falklands islanders.
Just because they're on some outcrop a long way off doesn't give people the right to dismiss them out of hand.
As to the Gibraltarians needing the mainland - I think you'll find it's the other way round. Their benefit to the surrounding regions is enormous.
Its a successful area because of the people that inhabit it. They get to chose who they are ruled by. I don't actually care if that's Spain, the UK, or they are independent as long as its what the inhabitants want.
robm3 said:
What will happen though is the Spanish will put in place a ridiculous visa situation where Gib residents (and UK) will have to apply for a visa to enter Spain. This visa will take a while to be issued and be for a single entry only. The last bit is important as it'll stuff the thousands of UK Gib residents that need to access Spain daily.
Thus the Spanish will retain the all important UK tourist dollar (UK based people will still be able to get their Summer holidays there) but stuff up the Gib's who have to travel daily into Spain.
Erm so we want full control of access to our Country but the Spanish aren't allowed full control of theirs ?Thus the Spanish will retain the all important UK tourist dollar (UK based people will still be able to get their Summer holidays there) but stuff up the Gib's who have to travel daily into Spain.
If we were in their position, I suspect we'd do similar.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I shouldn't think so. They are not in the UK or the EU. I doubt that the Channel Islands had any say either as they are not in the EU. When the Falklands were asked about self determination it was almost 100% in favour of staying with the U.K. That gives us leverage in the UN which is very much in to self determination.
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