Anyone give a toss about Gibraltar's future?

[DamienB]

I grew up on Gib. Give it to the Spanish so they can turn it into a sthole like La Linea? Not a chance. Closing the border would be a ballache but Gib would get by quite happily - it was always closed when I lived there.

[anonymous-user]

DamienB said:

Give it to the Spanish so they can turn it into a sthole like La Linea?

Last time I visited Gib by car and had to drive through La Linea to get there, I thought I must have taken a wrong turn as it felt like driving though some kind of bombed/ruined middle eastern city.

[BlackLabel]

Gibraltar has accused Spain of manipulating the European Council for its own political interests. A draft document on the EU's Brexit strategy said no agreement on the EU's future relationship with the UK would apply to Gibraltar without the consent of Spain, giving it a potential veto.

[55palfers]

BlackLabel said:

Gibraltar has accused Spain of manipulating the European Council for its own political interests. A draft document on the EU's Brexit strategy said no agreement on the EU's future relationship with the UK would apply to Gibraltar without the consent of Spain, giving it a potential veto.

May and Co, just walk away. Rock hard Brexit.

[HerrSchnell]

BlackLabel said:

Gibraltar has accused Spain of manipulating the European Council for its own political interests. A draft document on the EU's Brexit strategy said no agreement on the EU's future relationship with the UK would apply to Gibraltar without the consent of Spain, giving it a potential veto.

96% of Gibraltar residents voted to remain in the EU, we should hand the rock back to the Spanish so they can get their way.

[Murph7355]

HerrSchnell said:

96% of Gibraltar residents voted to remain in the EU, we should hand the rock back to the Spanish so they can get their way.

99% of them voted to retain British rule in 2002.

99% > 96%

At worst, let them have another think about the 96% in the wake of Spain's posturing on territory via a matter that is nothing to do with that.

[frisbee]

Nope.

Sell them to Spain.

[jjlynn27]

Murph7355 said:

99% of them voted to retain British rule in 2002.

99% > 96%

At worst, let them have another think about the 96% in the wake of Spain's posturing on territory via a matter that is nothing to do with that.

2016 > 2002

[anonymous-user]

How that little snippet got to be in the draft is a real wonder. It exposes the bitter reality of the people we were supposed to be partners with.
We arrived with Gib, we leave with Gib.
The EU is meddling here in matters of sovereignty and it's one of many reasons we voted to get out.

[rxe]

Dog Star said:

Damn right.

I spend a few months a year there and they're fiercely patriotic and proud of being British - something a few people on this thread certainly aren't.

They're British subjects, they're loyal, they want to be British - and that's all that matters. Same goes for the Falklands islanders.

Just because they're on some outcrop a long way off doesn't give people the right to dismiss them out of hand.

As to the Gibraltarians needing the mainland - I think you'll find it's the other way round. Their benefit to the surrounding regions is enormous.

+1

I'd park the off duty Trident boat there, tubes open. Just cleaning the missiles guv.

Spaniards are great, lovely people and all that, but their beauracracy is corrupt to the core, and pretty much everyone in power (at all levels) is on the take.

[HerrSchnell]

Murph7355 said:

HerrSchnell said:

96% of Gibraltar residents voted to remain in the EU, we should hand the rock back to the Spanish so they can get their way.

99% of them voted to retain British rule in 2002.

99% > 96%

At worst, let them have another think about the 96% in the wake of Spain's posturing on territory via a matter that is nothing to do with that.

I was being slightly facetious with that but it does leave us with an interesting conundrum, like the Scots it appears they want British rule but as part of the EU.

As they can't have both they are going to be disappointed one way or the other.

My feeling is that the latest result trumps the 2002 result due to recency and given that the territory is clearly a part of Spain, as Scotland is clearly a part of Britain, we should hand it back and leave them to their fate rather than risk having them team up with Sturgeon, as per link below, to further hamper our exit negotiations.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...

Edited by HerrSchnell on Saturday 1st April 09:50

[don'tbesilly]

HerrSchnell said:

Murph7355 said:

HerrSchnell said:

96% of Gibraltar residents voted to remain in the EU, we should hand the rock back to the Spanish so they can get their way.

99% of them voted to retain British rule in 2002.

99% > 96%

At worst, let them have another think about the 96% in the wake of Spain's posturing on territory via a matter that is nothing to do with that.

I was being slightly facetious with that but it does leave us with an interesting conundrum, like the Scots it appears they want British rule but as part of the EU.

As they can't have both they are going to be disappointed one way or the other.

My feeling is that the latest result trumps the 2002 result due to recency and given that the territory is clearly a part of Spain, as Scotland is clearly a part of Britain, we should hand it back and leave them to their fate rather than risk having them team up with Sturgeon, as per link below, to further hamper our exit negotiations.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...

Edited by HerrSchnell on Saturday 1st April 09:50

I rather suspect that given the choice between becoming in effect part of Spain or remaining under the governance of the UK, the people of Gibraltar would go, and by a large majority with the latter.

[TheRocket]

Tongue in cheek but how about something like 'Sure you can have Gib back, that will cost you £90 billion, oh wait that's precisely what you think we owe you plus 30 billion for our troubles and costs to relocate and compensate our 30,000 citizens...'

[HerrSchnell]

don'tbesilly said:

I rather suspect that given the choice between becoming in effect part of Spain or remaining under the governance of the UK, the people of Gibraltar would go, and by a large majority with the latter.

In this instance I defer to the logic of Spock, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

I care very little for the views of thirty thousand people domiciled in a tax haven, passporting secretive financial and online gambling services across the EU from a territory with "special" tax arrangements and a questionable record on money laundering when compared to the needs of sixty four million of us who don't live on a piece of land at the bottom of Spain.

I do however care that Fabian Picardo, Nicola Sturgeon and Sadiq Khan have discussed forming an alliance of vested interests to disrupt our exit process in order to secure financial concessions for themselves.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/sadiq-khan...

[Fat Fairy]

HerrSchnell said:

In this instance I defer to the logic of Spock, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

However, upon his restoration,......

"Later....... when crewman Chekov is in trouble, Spock insists that the crew save him, even at risk of jeopardising the crew’s vital mission to save Earth and everyone on it. Kirk asks, “Is this the logical thing to do?” Spock answers, “No, but it is the human thing to do.” Although Spock reaffirms his claim that the needs of the many logically outweigh the needs of the few, he suggests that sometimes we must do the “human” thing, not the logical thing, and put the needs of the few (or the one) first."

FF

[HerrSchnell]

Fat Fairy said:

However, upon his restoration,......

"Later....... when crewman Chekov is in trouble, Spock insists that the crew save him, even at risk of jeopardising the crew’s vital mission to save Earth and everyone on it. Kirk asks, “Is this the logical thing to do?” Spock answers, “No, but it is the human thing to do.” Although Spock reaffirms his claim that the needs of the many logically outweigh the needs of the few, he suggests that sometimes we must do the “human” thing, not the logical thing, and put the needs of the few (or the one) first."

FF

I'm afraid I had grown up by the time of the sequel so was unaware of developments in Vulcan emotional intelligence.

However I'm pretty sure that when the few are a bunch of tax dodging elitists making money from usury and gambling looking to put sticks in the spokes to protect their fortunes then an argument for compassion toward them wanes and so Spock would stick with the logic of saying, basically, fk 'em before a hearty rendition of Y Viva Espana.

[hornetrider]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Doesn't it just. They can fro if they think they can use Gib as a bargaining chip.

[brrapp]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Really! You do realise that you've fallen for an April Fool's day joke.
The EU wouldn't be _that_ stupid.

Edited by brrapp on Saturday 1st April 12:13

[alfie2244]

hornetrider said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Doesn't it just. They can fro if they think they can use Gib as a bargaining chip.

France and the Channel islands next?

[bristolracer]

Gibraltar is a major intelligence post.
The soviet navy southern fleet have to drive right past it

We shouldn't be giving it up when it is so important to NATO.

NATO is the UK and the Americans all the others make up numbers and whinge about the cost,we really shouldn't be giving up such a valuable intelligence asset when the Russian bear is getting aggressive again.
Given our European neighbours history with changing sides/rolling over who would you trust with Gibraltar?