Tory Leadership Election

[tarnished]

FredClogs said:

Before anyone votes in this (if you're illegible) ...

[JNW1]

FredClogs said:

I can't see anyone winning this know other than May

You could well be right but if that happens the existing PM will have stood down on the basis he was a Remain supporter only to be replaced by his Home Secretary who was also a Remain supporter! I must be missing something but if Cameron is right to go on the basis he'd campaigned actively for Remain I don't really see how it can be appropriate to replace him with someone who campaigned on the same side and shared his views?

[MarshPhantom]

Mark Benson said:

PositronicRay said:

BJG1 said:

Michael Gove is a reformer and a liberal.

A classical liberal, not the modern hijack of the term by authoritarian holier than thou types.

I take Liberal to mean decent human being, you're saying Gove isn't one of those?

[walm]

JNW1 said:

FredClogs said:

I can't see anyone winning this know other than May

You could well be right but if that happens the existing PM will have stood down on the basis he was a Remain supporter only to be replaced by his Home Secretary who was also a Remain supporter! I must be missing something but if Cameron is right to go on the basis he'd campaigned actively for Remain I don't really see how it can be appropriate to replace him with someone who campaigned on the same side and shared his views?

It was Cameron's view he should step down though.
The next Tory Leader will be up to the view of the members. They may disagree with CMD, but don't have the option to reinstate him!

Also for those keeping score - Carney hinting at interest rate cuts over the "summer" (so never?) and the pound is tanking again.

[Mark Benson]

MarshPhantom said:

Mark Benson said:

PositronicRay said:

BJG1 said:

Michael Gove is a reformer and a liberal.

A classical liberal, not the modern hijack of the term by authoritarian holier than thou types.

I take Liberal to mean decent human being, you're saying Gove isn't one of those?

You could always look the term up if you don't understand it.

[JagLover]

Mark Benson said:

He'd be a good PM, he got a lot done at education, not all of it perfect but what we need now is someone who'll get on with the job, not be faffing about on the sidelines taking opinion polls before any decision.

We have 4 years until the next election and he might get more done in 4 years than someone else might get done in 9.

Yes unpopular at education as he tried to improve the system (never popular with the left). To be popular as education secretary always remember that mediocrity is fine for the Plebs as long as the teaching unions are happy and there are decent schools (whether Private or state) for the children of the elites.

[FredClogs]

JNW1 said:

FredClogs said:

I can't see anyone winning this know other than May

You could well be right but if that happens the existing PM will have stood down on the basis he was a Remain supporter only to be replaced by his Home Secretary who was also a Remain supporter! I must be missing something but if Cameron is right to go on the basis he'd campaigned actively for Remain I don't really see how it can be appropriate to replace him with someone who campaigned on the same side and shared his views?

Can't see it makes that much difference, she is pretty anti immigration as we've seen on her work at the home office and I can't see fox or gove being better negotiators or being able to get a better deal than she can on the exit.

[TankRizzo]

MarshPhantom said:

I take Liberal to mean decent human being, you're saying Gove isn't one of those?

Do you? What a strange definition.

[Mark Benson]

FredClogs said:

JNW1 said:

FredClogs said:

I can't see anyone winning this know other than May

You could well be right but if that happens the existing PM will have stood down on the basis he was a Remain supporter only to be replaced by his Home Secretary who was also a Remain supporter! I must be missing something but if Cameron is right to go on the basis he'd campaigned actively for Remain I don't really see how it can be appropriate to replace him with someone who campaigned on the same side and shared his views?

Can't see it makes that much difference, she is pretty anti immigration as we've seen on her work at the home office and I can't see fox or gove being better negotiators or being able to get a better deal than she can on the exit.

Remember though, that the top two as voted by MPs get to go through to the bonus round where the casting vote goes to the party membership.

ie. The old buffers in the shires, who'll vote Gove in. Not May.

[marcosgt]

TankRizzo said:

MarshPhantom said:

I take Liberal to mean decent human being, you're saying Gove isn't one of those?

Do you? What a strange definition.

Not sure what you think it is, but it's odd how Americans spouting liberal (as opposed to Liberal, the long defunct party) views take such offence at the word...

I don't really care who win the Tory leadership election, they're all pretty reprehensible people.

Trouble is, so are all the others...

M.

[Ayahuasca]

Not sure what Gove's game is here - if he genuinely did not want to support Boris he could have told him so privately, then let Boris withdraw gracefully, then put his own hat in the ring, no problem.

What he actually did with his announcement will seem to many like a stab in Boris' back, and many people despise a back-stabber as it seem that they cannot be trusted. By doing so he may have sabotaged his own chances. He must have known this. So what gives?

[Luther Blisset]

Ayahuasca said:

Not sure what Gove's game is here - if he genuinely did not want to support Boris he could have told him so privately, then let Boris withdraw gracefully, then put his own hat in the ring, no problem.

What he actually did with his announcement will seem to many like a stab in Boris' back, and many people despise a back-stabber as it seem that they cannot be trusted. By doing so he may have sabotaged his own chances. He must have known this. So what gives?

He has to do it publicly as there's every chance Boris would agree in private then just do what he wants anyway.
Best thing to do was kill Boris so he can never be PM, for the sake of the nation.
Really hope May wins it, she's the kind of level headed, public service minded person we need at this time.

[Blue62]

I haven't trawled through all the posts, but what's the thinking on Gove gazumping Boris?

I like conspiracy stories, could it all be a put up job with Gove paving the way for the shaggy haired Etonian, knowing that things will be toxic in the immediate aftermath (Cameron not invoking A50 etc)? Alternatively have some party stalwarts stepped in to make sure that May gets the gig (as Boris was the only serious contender), in the belief that a 'Remainer' will probably stand a better chance of uniting the party and the country and will no doubt get a slightly better reception when sitting down to negotiate?

[Elroy Blue]

Luther Blisset said:

He has to do it publicly as there's every chance Boris would agree in private then just do what he wants anyway.
Best thing to do was kill Boris so he can never be PM, for the sake of the nation.
Really hope May wins it, she's the kind of level headed, public service minded person we need at this time.

Have you ANY idea of the complete abortion she made of her time as Home Secretary. At this very moment she's peddling lies about her 'achievements '

[s2art]

Blue62 said:

I haven't trawled through all the posts, but what's the thinking on Gove gazumping Boris?

I like conspiracy stories, could it all be a put up job with Gove paving the way for the shaggy haired Etonian, knowing that things will be toxic in the immediate aftermath (Cameron not invoking A50 etc)? Alternatively have some party stalwarts stepped in to make sure that May gets the gig (as Boris was the only serious contender), in the belief that a 'Remainer' will probably stand a better chance of uniting the party and the country and will no doubt get a slightly better reception when sitting down to negotiate?

But how will a remainer unite the party when the bulk of the party members are for leave?

[Sam All]

Mark Benson said:

Remember though, that the top two as voted by MPs get to go through to the bonus round where the casting vote goes to the party membership.

ie. The old buffers in the shires, who'll vote Gove in. Not May.

.. And then the debate will restart if it is 52/48.

[Axionknight]

Gandahar said:

Axionknight said:

Gandahar said:

Fittster said:

So do PHers still believe that austerity is necessary?

Probably best for another thread.

however saying that we have 2 new nuclear aircraft carriers with expensive planes that will not be ready till 2023 ...

Just one will protect the Falklands .... bet it still goes ahead though ....

They aren't nuclear powered - conventional engines.

Thanks for the correction my right learned gentleman. So a bit cheaper then.

(see I am even learning the lingo now)

Edited by Gandahar on Thursday 30th June 16:01

Our defence procurement bods don't do cheap.

Or on time,

Costs have risen dramatically I believe - who would have ever guessed?

[Blue62]

s2art said:

But how will a remainer unite the party when the bulk of the party members are for leave?

Simply because the Leave camp won, the ones to win over and get on side are the Remainers. All that said, I have just picked up a tip that Murdoch is behind all this, he gave the thumbs down to Boris at the weekend, believe it if you wish, it is only a rumour to the best of my knowledge, though from a decent source.

[PositronicRay]

Elroy Blue said:

Luther Blisset said:

He has to do it publicly as there's every chance Boris would agree in private then just do what he wants anyway.
Best thing to do was kill Boris so he can never be PM, for the sake of the nation.
Really hope May wins it, she's the kind of level headed, public service minded person we need at this time.

Have you ANY idea of the complete abortion she made of her time as Home Secretary. At this very moment she's peddling lies about her 'achievements '

I'm guessing your a copper?

[Elroy Blue]

PositronicRay said:

I'm guessing your a copper?

It doesn't stop her 'claims' being lies