How small would you like to go?
Discussion
Smollet said:
I'm sorry but how can London want out? It's like saying Truro wants out.What planet are you on?
Actually a certain number of the inhabitants of Cornwall do want independence from the rest of England and it has its own political party https://www.mebyonkernow.org/
Kermit power said:
Smollet said:
I'm sorry but how can London want out? It's like saying Truro wants out.What planet are you on?
No, it's more like Barcelona saying it wants out in Spain. The rest of Spain craps itself.OK, it would be a bit weird for London alone to leave, but if the South East were to go, the rest of the country would collapse.
Is it realistically ever going to happen? Probably not. Would it be nice to be part of Europe's richest country? Yes please.
alock said:
A small company feels light and efficient..
Indeed. whenever I play Plato-type mind games, I normally think of city states (not literally cities) as the best way to go. In some sort of federal combination. The Eu might have gone this way, but it wanted to centralise.
I look at Iceland, a small country, where people know their ministers to chat to, and it looks pretty good.
Jimbeaux said:
Edinburger said:
Jimbeaux said:
Smollet said:
I'm sorry but how can London want out? It's like saying Truro wants out.What planet are you on?
I am with you on this, that is just plain silly IMO.And/or we become a federal country with Westminster controlling foreign affairs, defence, etc., and each member country/region with it's own government?
If we go ahead and leave the EU, how many companies will leave London and how many jobs will be lost...?!
For years, the EU have pushed for the financial services industry to leave the UK and maybe now the UK has voted for it to leave...
How many global and multi-national financial services organisations in the City and Canary Wharf are hugely concerned about Brexit?
V8RX7 said:
I'd like to see the figures but I have no issue in principal with Scotland /N Ireland / Wales leaving, indeed I'd like to remove N Ireland as it's just a drain on resources and if we do leave the EU it's going to get a lot worse.
Talk of London etc leaving is ridiculous - yes it earns much of the money but most of the money is also spent there.
So you'd expect England to secede and take London with it, even though the people of London voted differently?Talk of London etc leaving is ridiculous - yes it earns much of the money but most of the money is also spent there.
I think you need to educate yourself a bit!! Especially on why the UK is at is currently is!!
Halb said:
Indeed.
whenever I play Plato-type mind games, I normally think of city states (not literally cities) as the best way to go. In some sort of federal combination. The Eu might have gone this way, but it wanted to centralise.
I look at Iceland, a small country, where people know their ministers to chat to, and it looks pretty good.
And they've got a pretty decent football team too... whenever I play Plato-type mind games, I normally think of city states (not literally cities) as the best way to go. In some sort of federal combination. The Eu might have gone this way, but it wanted to centralise.
I look at Iceland, a small country, where people know their ministers to chat to, and it looks pretty good.
Edinburger said:
V8RX7 said:
I'd like to see the figures but I have no issue in principal with Scotland /N Ireland / Wales leaving, indeed I'd like to remove N Ireland as it's just a drain on resources and if we do leave the EU it's going to get a lot worse.
Talk of London etc leaving is ridiculous - yes it earns much of the money but most of the money is also spent there.
So you'd expect England to secede and take London with it, even though the people of London voted differently?Talk of London etc leaving is ridiculous - yes it earns much of the money but most of the money is also spent there.
I think you need to educate yourself a bit!! Especially on why the UK is at is currently is!!
Edited by Jimbeaux on Friday 1st July 16:31
federalised system of government - like merrykay. each county raising its own taxes. some places will become ghost towns as the investment in an area will be based off economic worth. too many places in uk take money but give stuff all back other than b
hing about coal mines that shut down in the '80's cos no faker uses the shyte any more.
hing about coal mines that shut down in the '80's cos no faker uses the shyte any more.kurt535 said:
federalised system of government - like merrykay. each county raising its own taxes. some places will become ghost towns as the investment in an area will be based off economic worth. too many places in uk take money but give stuff all back other than bhing about coal mines that shut down in the '80's cos no faker uses the shyte any more.
And being dependent on Russian gas imports and Chinese funded nuclear power stations has been such a winning formula for britain's energy security hasn't it...hing about coal mines that shut down in the '80's cos no faker uses the shyte any more.
InfiniteVoltage said:
I know PH is very much a right-wing political viewpoint entity as a whole, and I would say I am in the centre-right area. There are also a minority left-wing posters it is accepted.
But with all that is going on politically just recently I am wondering how small you would wish the UK/England to become?
For example, in the so called "good old days" we used to be an empire controlling the world.
Then we just became the UK with a few remains of the empire under our direct control.
Then we became a member of the EU.
Then we are likely to now just be the UK.
But soon after we may become just England and Wales.
With a possibility of London wanting out also, so we'd become England/Wales minus London.
There has already been talk of individual counties within England wanting devolution powers etc.
So then we are down to the public only having a say on their own county.
....
From the world down to a small county. That is a big downgrade of electorate privilege is it not?
Then would there be moves for individual other cities & towns within counties to want their own further devolution powers? Leaving people to basically run their own back yard.... literally!
Ok, I am bringing the argument to an extreme... but what is it with the trend to want to become smaller?
Bigger !! thats why I voted out , now we can be a trading nation again , and punch above our weight again ...But with all that is going on politically just recently I am wondering how small you would wish the UK/England to become?
For example, in the so called "good old days" we used to be an empire controlling the world.
Then we just became the UK with a few remains of the empire under our direct control.
Then we became a member of the EU.
Then we are likely to now just be the UK.
But soon after we may become just England and Wales.
With a possibility of London wanting out also, so we'd become England/Wales minus London.
There has already been talk of individual counties within England wanting devolution powers etc.
So then we are down to the public only having a say on their own county.
....
From the world down to a small county. That is a big downgrade of electorate privilege is it not?
Then would there be moves for individual other cities & towns within counties to want their own further devolution powers? Leaving people to basically run their own back yard.... literally!
Ok, I am bringing the argument to an extreme... but what is it with the trend to want to become smaller?
If we can avoid the negative attitude that is being put about by the inward looking and hard of thinking ....
AJS- said:
Sovereign individual.
That'll do for me. 
Actually, I suspect many people would regard me as a 'Little Englander', whereas I think I'm a 'Great Britainer' who very much likes the idea of a UK being a small family of nations, with each member of that family having a degree of self rule; but I do not want to be ruled by people outside of our shores, in we've gone much too far in that direction.
I now very much regret voting to 'stay in' in the 1975 referendum.
Never mind p1esk, got it right in the end!
Regarding small and local in the age of big and global, I don't think the two are necessarily at odds.
We still need to empty the bins, maintain the roads and fight crime. We need schools and hospitals. We want towns and cities that are attractive, well planned and so on. These things are all inherently local and people do want a tier of local government to express this.
Nothing to stop those same people going to Fiji on holiday, working around the world and driving a car made in Germany.
The odd one out is really the nation state. Tens or hundreds of millions of people with various degrees of cultural and linguistic homogeneity but relatively little else by way of common interests.
The EU was really just a bigger nation state with very little by way of genuine common interests or identity. Though I can see the argument for it in terms of being a big enough market to be a world power in trade terms, I think that's really the wrong lens through which to view it.
Evolution is generally better than revolution, and throwing away nation states that people have a strong affinity to is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Rather I would hope to see nation states evolve to be inwardly more decentralised, providing an overarching structure without doing very much, and outwardly more open.
Regarding small and local in the age of big and global, I don't think the two are necessarily at odds.
We still need to empty the bins, maintain the roads and fight crime. We need schools and hospitals. We want towns and cities that are attractive, well planned and so on. These things are all inherently local and people do want a tier of local government to express this.
Nothing to stop those same people going to Fiji on holiday, working around the world and driving a car made in Germany.
The odd one out is really the nation state. Tens or hundreds of millions of people with various degrees of cultural and linguistic homogeneity but relatively little else by way of common interests.
The EU was really just a bigger nation state with very little by way of genuine common interests or identity. Though I can see the argument for it in terms of being a big enough market to be a world power in trade terms, I think that's really the wrong lens through which to view it.
Evolution is generally better than revolution, and throwing away nation states that people have a strong affinity to is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Rather I would hope to see nation states evolve to be inwardly more decentralised, providing an overarching structure without doing very much, and outwardly more open.
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