2016 - a year of discontent?

[Rovinghawk]

vonuber said:

Elroy Blue said:

Just no. FPTP is pretty crap, but at least it doesn't involve minority whackos like the Greens getting influence far beyond their vote count

That makes no sense whatsoever.

One expects no better.

[Elroy Blue]

Rovinghawk said:

One expects no better.

Bless.

[Esseesse]

eccles said:

Graemsay said:

vonuber said:

I think haven given people the whiff of a voice, to go back to the archaic FPTP where your vote doesn't really matter will be interesting.

There seems to be a growing opinion that the UK should move to a proportional representation system. I don't know if this is just newspaper columnists and politicians from minor parties making noise, or whether there is a genuine shift.

I'd like to see reform. I think that it'll be difficult in a parliament that's dominated by two parties who benefit from it, but it might happen.

If you're interested, The Independent gave a breakdown of the last election's results under PR.

Party : FPTP Seats / PR Seats

Conservatives: 331 / 242
Labour: 232 / 199
UKIP: 1 / 82
Lib Dems: 8 / 51
SNP: 56 / 31
Greens: 1 / 24

It seems to me the only time FPTP gets mentioned is when the result doesn't go the way the loser wanted.

I agree. FPTP is a good thing. Lose FPTP and we lose our adversarial politics. House of Commons will start looking like a committee meeting as they do in much of Europe.

The problem we have in the UK is that the two main parties positions on things to not reflect public opinion and the divides in public opinion. They cling on by virtue that people still loyally vote for them because of the colour of their tie. The parties need changing or replacing, not the electoral system.

Edited by Esseesse on Friday 1st July 09:48

[rs1952]

eatcustard said:

rs1952 said:

We are in for a few years of discontent, as the reality dawns on some of those that voted out that:

1. The place will still be full of low-paid immigrants, otherwise a lot of farm produce will be left rotting in the ground because the locals won't dig it out for the money.

They come on short contracts then go home, I know because I have a farmer near me who does just that.

So they currently come on short term contracts and then go home? So they're not immigrants then, are they. they are seasonal workers.

The difference in the future would be that these seasonal workers, and their employers, would have to jump through new hoops. Rather than just bung a sit vac ad in a Budapest labour exchange, or whatever, an employer would have to show that the staff are needed and they can't be sourced from the indigenous population. That in itself might cause a problem, as the Borders Agency may take the view that it is "only unskilled work" and locals should be able to do the job.

The workers themselves will have to fill in a form or two to get a temporary work visa. Allow for a lot of to-ing and fro-ing as the Borders lot ask for "clarification" over where they will live, how long they will be here etc.

We all know the ruthless efficiency that Whitehall applies to everything it touches

Farmer finally gets his team of strawberry pickers on site. but its a pity that they ripened six months ago and the birds have had the bloody lot...

[EnglishTony]

I feel sorry for that nice Boris Johnson. Lovely hair & he got stabbed in the back.

[eatcustard]

rs1952 said:

So they currently come on short term contracts and then go home? So they're not immigrants then, are they. they are seasonal workers.

The difference in the future would be that these seasonal workers, and their employers, would have to jump through new hoops. Rather than just bung a sit vac ad in a Budapest labour exchange, or whatever, an employer would have to show that the staff are needed and they can't be sourced from the indigenous population. That in itself might cause a problem, as the Borders Agency may take the view that it is "only unskilled work" and locals should be able to do the job.

The workers themselves will have to fill in a form or two to get a temporary work visa. Allow for a lot of to-ing and fro-ing as the Borders lot ask for "clarification" over where they will live, how long they will be here etc.

We all know the ruthless efficiency that Whitehall applies to everything it touches

Farmer finally gets his team of strawberry pickers on site. but its a pity that they ripened six months ago and the birds have had the bloody lot...

They will get in just as easy as before. Why you askm, because the farmer will get it sorted sooner.

[jamoor]

eatcustard said:

They will get in just as easy as before. Why you askm, because the farmer will get it sorted sooner.

Jumping through hoops = paperwork
Paperwork = money.

[rs1952]

garyhun said:

rs1952 said:

A response like that suggests that the reality of the situation hasn't dawned on you yet. Either.

Oh well, enjoy your euphoria whilst it lasts...

It's not euphoria, it's relief. For some of us this thing called democracy matters.

You are clearly easily relieved Let's have a recap of what has happened in the last week:

We had an advisory referendum. Of those who voted 52% voted out and 48% voted in. Turnout was 72%, meaning that 28% of the electorate either couldn't give a toss either way, couldn't be arsed to go to the polling station, or thought the government ought to do the deciding. Had that 48/52 split been the other way round, I doubt that UKIP would have accepted the result as a resounding victory for "in." There is no reason to expect the "in" camp will act any better.

The stock and currency markets have been acting like a yo-yo. What the long term result will be remains to be seen, but when a yo-yo runs out of energy you get a long piece of the string with the toy at a lower level than it started.

Both the major English political parties are in disarray. They both need new leaders, and only one of them have started their leadership contest.

Most importantly, we are still in the EU and will remain in the EU for quite some time to come, whatever happens in the longer term.

That lot might "relieve" you, but it doesn't relieve me, and it wouldn't relieve me whichever side I was on.

[wc98]

rs1952 said:

We are in for a few years of discontent, as the reality dawns on some of those that voted out that:

1. The place will still be full of low-paid immigrants, otherwise a lot of farm produce will be left rotting in the ground because the locals won't dig it out for the money.
2. We won't be giving an extra £350m per week to the NHS
3. We won't be zero-rating VAT on fuel
4. We won't be reopening coal fired power stations or scrapping wind farms
5. We won't be rebuilding our fishing industry because there's not enough fish for 'em all to catch
6. Whitehall actually likes most EU regulations and will be fighting hard to keep it if anybody tries to get rid of it.

And so on...

i don't know much about the other stuff, but there are more than enough fish to go around. especially if we stop throwing half a million tonnes of them back dead instead of selling them.

[wc98]

don'tbesilly said:

rs1952 said:

We are in for a few years of discontent, as the reality dawns on some of those that voted out that:

1. The place will still be full of low-paid immigrants, otherwise a lot of farm produce will be left rotting in the ground because the locals won't dig it out for the money.
2. We won't be giving an extra £350m per week to the NHS
3. We won't be zero-rating VAT on fuel
4. We won't be reopening coal fired power stations or scrapping wind farms
5. We won't be rebuilding our fishing industry because there's not enough fish for 'em all to catch
6. Whitehall actually likes most EU regulations and will be fighting hard to keep it if anybody tries to get rid of it.

And so on...

Geez, with that attitude can I suggest:

http://www.samaritans.org/

alternatively http://www.mankind.co.uk/men-rock-double-edged-raz...