What's so bad about EU regulation anyway?

What's so bad about EU regulation anyway?

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footnote

Original Poster:

924 posts

105 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
I was listening to Liam Fox on the Today programme earlier essentially saying that his ideal world would be access to the single market without membership of the EU thus freeing Britain from EU rules and regs.

Yep, like you're going to manage that I said to myself.

And the I thought, as I got some beef out of the freezer to defrost - what does Liam actually mean?

I presume health, hygiene and food safety standards are uniform across the EU, at the moment, with the good intention of ensuring we all eat safe food.

If Britain is not subject to EU regulation, would EU countries even be able to import food from a country which can't prove it conforms to the EU regualtions Liam Fox et al want to throw out?

If we intend to pick and choose which EU regulations we like and will adhere to - won't this require the establishment of a bureaucracy on a similar scale to that already existing for EU standards?

It just made me consider that most EU regulation is probably for my own good - why should I want to throw that out just because it was created by a German and not a Briton?

What will happen about farming standards preventing bird flu, mad cow disease and whatever other new bugs arrive - surely all of this is better organised on a large scale basis and requires proper implementation across all nations.

What about all the new legislation regulating mobile phone charges and so on?

I'm a Remainer anyway... but Liam Fox just made me realise that I have no idea what regulations Leavers actually don't want or why those regulations are so bad that Leavers can't tolerate being 'told what to do'.

What and why are the regulations (other than immigration) that Leavers object to?

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

157 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
footnote said:
What and why are the regulations (other than immigration) that Leavers object to?
I'll open with the ban on powerful vacuum cleaners, meaning a half-power machine that takes twice as long, thereby using the same amount of energy for generally a lesser result.

I'm sure there are others.

Puggit

48,355 posts

247 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
There's a generally held belief that EU red tape is designed on behalf of the big companies. They are the ones that lobby in the EU for a lot of these rules, because they can afford to have whole departments to manage the rules and regs.

Your small family run business must also adhere to the rules, but it takes up cousin Frank's entire working time to deal with the rules.

Start here: http://openeurope.org.uk/intelligence/britain-and-...

Open Europe is independent.

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
footnote said:
It just made me consider that most EU regulation is probably for my own good - why should I want to throw that out just because it was created by a German and not a Briton?
I don't think anyones care who made the regs. You may think they're for your own good and be happy to be treated like a child. Wherever possible I would rather be free to make a judgement on whether something is too dangerous/risky.

footnote

Original Poster:

924 posts

105 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
Esseesse said:
footnote said:
It just made me consider that most EU regulation is probably for my own good - why should I want to throw that out just because it was created by a German and not a Briton?
I don't think anyones care who made the regs. You may think they're for your own good and be happy to be treated like a child. Wherever possible I would rather be free to make a judgement on whether something is too dangerous/risky.
I don't believe the individual citizen has any more power or say and is treated as any less of a child whether in Britain out of the EU or in the EU.
I can't see Theresa May giving me any more say over anything - in fact she and Corbyn will be popping round to check my internet usage on a daily basis.

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
Esseesse said:
I don't think anyones care who made the regs. You may think they're for your own good and be happy to be treated like a child. Wherever possible I would rather be free to make a judgement on whether something is too dangerous/risky.
This is the part that I don't get. I've read somewhere that UK Climate change policy will be stricter than EU one was. Hover wattage part is on the same level as roaming charges, curved cucumbers and low voltage bulbs. Completely irrelevant.

You'll have bunch of bureaucrats (no, you'll not get the chance to vote for them either) in Whitehall making those regulations. Are they going to be more efficient than Brux ones? Who knows.


wst

3,494 posts

160 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
Esseesse said:
I don't think anyones care who made the regs. You may think they're for your own good and be happy to be treated like a child. Wherever possible I would rather be free to make a judgement on whether something is too dangerous/risky.
What's wrong with regulations? I like knowing that I can plug electrical things in without them catching fire, because they conform to an armload of regulations that ensure this.

footnote

Original Poster:

924 posts

105 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
Esseesse said:
I don't think anyones care who made the regs. You may think they're for your own good and be happy to be treated like a child. Wherever possible I would rather be free to make a judgement on whether something is too dangerous/risky.
This is the part that I don't get. I've read somewhere that UK Climate change policy will be stricter than EU one was. Hover wattage part is on the same level as roaming charges, curved cucumbers and low voltage bulbs. Completely irrelevant.

You'll have bunch of bureaucrats (no, you'll not get the chance to vote for them either) in Whitehall making those regulations. Are they going to be more efficient than Brux ones? Who knows.
I also haven't got the time to learn all about food safety, hygiene regulations, animal hormone treatment, best practice arable farming, best practie sterile treatment in abbatoirs etc etc - to make an informed decision on whether something is safe or not.

That's why we train professionals and create this type of society/infrastructure.

I don't want to be a serf/peasant reinventing the wheel for myself every day.

footnote

Original Poster:

924 posts

105 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
But staying on topic I really would like to know what and why are the regulations (other than immigration) that Leavers object to?

I'm not taking the piss - I really can't think of anything imposed on me from the EU that genuinely affects my life for the worse that I can get hacked off at the EU about.

Puggit

48,355 posts

247 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
footnote said:
But staying on topic I really would like to know what and why are the regulations (other than immigration) that Leavers object to?

I'm not taking the piss - I really can't think of anything imposed on me from the EU that genuinely affects my life for the worse that I can get hacked off at the EU about.
Speak to small business owners

mikees

2,745 posts

171 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
I thin k people usually roll out - standard sized bananas or something like that - like you I'm not sure that there are any I can think of that make much (negative) difference to my life.

Mike

wst

3,494 posts

160 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
Puggit said:
footnote said:
But staying on topic I really would like to know what and why are the regulations (other than immigration) that Leavers object to?

I'm not taking the piss - I really can't think of anything imposed on me from the EU that genuinely affects my life for the worse that I can get hacked off at the EU about.
Speak to small business owners
Ok, so they are frustrated that they have no voice advising the regulation makers and so have to conform to whatever a big company reckons is most profitable.

What exactly changes if British politicians make these regulations on the advice of big companies? I guess the money stays in Britain (or the Bahamas) so that's good... the small guy still gets screwed.

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
Puggit said:
footnote said:
But staying on topic I really would like to know what and why are the regulations (other than immigration) that Leavers object to?

I'm not taking the piss - I really can't think of anything imposed on me from the EU that genuinely affects my life for the worse that I can get hacked off at the EU about.
Speak to small business owners
I do, on daily basis, for years. Not one has ever complained about 'red-tape'. Are people actually complaining to you? If so, I'd love to hear about which specific law is restricting them, and more importantly how leaving EU will resolve that.

footnote

Original Poster:

924 posts

105 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
Puggit said:
footnote said:
But staying on topic I really would like to know what and why are the regulations (other than immigration) that Leavers object to?

I'm not taking the piss - I really can't think of anything imposed on me from the EU that genuinely affects my life for the worse that I can get hacked off at the EU about.
Speak to small business owners
Fair enough, I don't own a small business so I don't know.
What is a small business? - anything from a solo craftsperson, an independent newsagent to a small media agency or factory?

Surely though, the regulations apply across the EU to all businesses uniformly, so none is unfairly disadvantaged against the other?

I mean, it's hard to argue that an off-licence in Streatham is unfaily punished with regulation compared to an off-licence in Germany, and conforming to the same regs as the off-licence in Brixton sounds fair to me.

I get that owning a business is a pain in the ass (why does anyone do it? - joking) but it's never going to be rule-free even in an independent Britain.

FredClogs

14,041 posts

160 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
footnote said:
But staying on topic I really would like to know what and why are the regulations (other than immigration) that Leavers object to?

I'm not taking the piss - I really can't think of anything imposed on me from the EU that genuinely affects my life for the worse that I can get hacked off at the EU about.
Part of my job is designing and testing electronics to certain standards and regulations, some of these are customer or industry specific and some are "government" mandated standards, US or EU or Australian it doesn't really make much difference but if you want to sell electronic goods in certain regions you have to show compliance to certain standards (unless you're going for the car boot end of the market)

Of course they're all annoying at times and can be expensive to design to and test for but they're almost always necessary to ensure either standards of interoperation, safety or quality.

I don't know about red tape in other industries but in engineering it would be to no ones benefit to just remove EU regulations in the medium to long term and restrict our ability (as small companies, corporate developers and as a nation) just just start knocking out ste.

marshalla

15,902 posts

200 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
Puggit said:
footnote said:
But staying on topic I really would like to know what and why are the regulations (other than immigration) that Leavers object to?

I'm not taking the piss - I really can't think of anything imposed on me from the EU that genuinely affects my life for the worse that I can get hacked off at the EU about.
Speak to small business owners
Somebody called? I'm not adversely affected by any of them.

crankedup

25,764 posts

242 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
footnote said:
Esseesse said:
footnote said:
It just made me consider that most EU regulation is probably for my own good - why should I want to throw that out just because it was created by a German and not a Briton?
I don't think anyones care who made the regs. You may think they're for your own good and be happy to be treated like a child. Wherever possible I would rather be free to make a judgement on whether something is too dangerous/risky.
I don't believe the individual citizen has any more power or say and is treated as any less of a child whether in Britain out of the EU or in the EU.
I can't see Theresa May giving me any more say over anything - in fact she and Corbyn will be popping round to check my internet usage on a daily basis.
If we disagree with something we can chuck the Government out, unelected EU suits we can't. For me that has always been a major gripe.

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
wst said:
Esseesse said:
I don't think anyones care who made the regs. You may think they're for your own good and be happy to be treated like a child. Wherever possible I would rather be free to make a judgement on whether something is too dangerous/risky.
What's wrong with regulations? I like knowing that I can plug electrical things in without them catching fire, because they conform to an armload of regulations that ensure this.
Standards are something else - I like our plug design for example, and regard it as the best mains plug in the world. What I don't like are rules about who is allowed to lay a cable down the garden etc.

Yes our government is also perfectly capable of stopping people going about their business, but as with everything in the EU, at least we can in theory remove them.

barryrs

4,376 posts

222 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
I think the Norway and Iceland examples are quite good indicators of how Britain could free itself from excessive regulation; that's not to say its all bad just that one size doesn't necessarily fit all.

"According to the EFTA Secretariat, the EU generated 52,183 legal instruments between 2000 and 2013, of which Norway adopted 4,724 — 9 per cent. A written answer to a parliamentary question in Iceland found a similar proportion: 6,326 out of 62,809 EU legal acts between 1994 and 2014."

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Friday 1st July 2016
quotequote all
crankedup said:
footnote said:
Esseesse said:
footnote said:
It just made me consider that most EU regulation is probably for my own good - why should I want to throw that out just because it was created by a German and not a Briton?
I don't think anyones care who made the regs. You may think they're for your own good and be happy to be treated like a child. Wherever possible I would rather be free to make a judgement on whether something is too dangerous/risky.
I don't believe the individual citizen has any more power or say and is treated as any less of a child whether in Britain out of the EU or in the EU.
I can't see Theresa May giving me any more say over anything - in fact she and Corbyn will be popping round to check my internet usage on a daily basis.
If we disagree with something we can chuck the Government out, unelected EU suits we can't. For me that has always been a major gripe.
Do you actually think it's the Government or 'unelected EU suits' that are coming up with regulations? Or nameless civil servants? If I'm not wrong, you don't vote on civil servants either.

I'm still waiting to hear any concrete examples, where leaving EU will remove the need for regulation. If anything, you'll now need to pay for more of them here to devise new ones, or approve existing ones.