What's so bad about EU regulation anyway?
Discussion
Derek Smith said:
So much ignorance. The lower powered machines are much better. They are more reliable as well, but that's down to manufacturing standards and not the EU.
Cheap to run as well don't forget.
But more expensive to buy, and I don't think vacuum cleaner power consumption is the main component of my electricity bill. But what do I know? I bought my vacuum cleaner from a charity shop. It has "1500W" on it in big letters, and picks up dog hair like it was on some kind of bonus for every gram collected.Cheap to run as well don't forget.
PositronicRay said:
Yup, vacuum cleaners are and example. The lower power jobbies are better, a government looking for populist policies would never have progressed it (even Which dissed the principle it seems)
Ergo without EU they'd never exist.
Rubbish, not every skilled vacuum cleaner designer is busy drawing up EU regulations, some are designing vacuum cleaners. Ergo without EU they'd never exist.
It was the industry that came up with the idea, then lobbied the EU to make it compulsory.
s2art said:
Which thread?
And I would say these guys know more about the actual situation with EU deals and the UK than the Dir Gen of the WTO.
http://www.lawyersforbritain.org/brexit-trade-trea...
One of the other brexit threads. Use search.And I would say these guys know more about the actual situation with EU deals and the UK than the Dir Gen of the WTO.
http://www.lawyersforbritain.org/brexit-trade-trea...
Edited by s2art on Monday 4th July 19:38
Your answer to a statement from dir gen of WTO is link to lobbying group? Ok, trust them.
On that same page lawyersforbritain state that EFTA would quickly welcome us. Norway PM said, no, we need to think if UK would diminish our influence, but we are open to other deals.
They are so ridiculously biased that it's not even funny.
Anyway, wrong tread.
Zod said:
don4l said:
I've mentioned RoHS before. One of my suppliers closed down because they couldn't afford the changes.
80 people lost their jobs.
Did that supplier (or do you) sell into the US? Is the EDEE Act not a problem? What about the equivalent Japanese, Chinese or Korean legislation? 80 people lost their jobs.
The odd thing is that there is an exemption for Military equipment. However, military infrastructure is not necessarily "equipment".
Things like this are painful to watch. They tend to be difficult to explain to people who are not directly affected.
I've mentioned the WEEE regulations a couple of times, but I don't think that anyone understood what I said. They cost me £1000 a year and there is absolutely no benefit at all to society, or to the environment.
jjlynn27 said:
s2art said:
Which thread?
And I would say these guys know more about the actual situation with EU deals and the UK than the Dir Gen of the WTO.
http://www.lawyersforbritain.org/brexit-trade-trea...
One of the other brexit threads. Use search.And I would say these guys know more about the actual situation with EU deals and the UK than the Dir Gen of the WTO.
http://www.lawyersforbritain.org/brexit-trade-trea...
Edited by s2art on Monday 4th July 19:38
Your answer to a statement from dir gen of WTO is link to lobbying group? Ok, trust them.
On that same page lawyersforbritain state that EFTA would quickly welcome us. Norway PM said, no, we need to think if UK would diminish our influence, but we are open to other deals.
They are so ridiculously biased that it's not even funny.
Anyway, wrong tread.
Derek Smith said:
So much ignorance. The lower powered machines are much better. They are more reliable as well, but that's down to manufacturing standards and not the EU.
Cheap to run as well don't forget.
If lower powered machines are better, then why don't you go the whole hog, and simply not plug them in? That would make them extremely low powered.Cheap to run as well don't forget.
Maybe the vacuum cleaner would be much more efficient if it didn't have a motor at all.
Kettles with less power are less efficient. Their elements are as near as dammit 100% efficient. The longer that they take to boil the water, the more heat is lost to the kitchen.
Personally, I cant think of one, but that doesnt mean Im not affected.
Some that may be EU but may be UK that have become increasingly more expensive
Waste Tyre disposal. The number of companies has halved that are collecting - cost is anything between £1.50 and £3.00 per case, a few years ago it was 50/60p
Waste oil - again, companies used to pay for your waste oil, again, the companies that were doing that are gone and many dont want to touch contaminated oil. Again, when you find someone to collect its minimum of £200 and £1 - £1.50 litre.
Waste Oil heaters / Burners - Yup, the way a garage can heat itself with waste oil has been stopped, well regulated. Used to be a few £100 for a permit, now its £3600 and an annual fee of £1600. Or you simply buy "clean" oil to heat the workshop.
Trailer laws, used to be that trailers under 1050kg (?) were exempt from regulation, now if you use it for business along with running a tacho, you need an operators licence also.
As I said, some may not be directly from Brussels, but they are affecting small businesses.
Either way, the bigger issues are the fines and increased payments that are demanded over and above the membership fees, where poorer member states receive more than they contribute.
Some that may be EU but may be UK that have become increasingly more expensive
Waste Tyre disposal. The number of companies has halved that are collecting - cost is anything between £1.50 and £3.00 per case, a few years ago it was 50/60p
Waste oil - again, companies used to pay for your waste oil, again, the companies that were doing that are gone and many dont want to touch contaminated oil. Again, when you find someone to collect its minimum of £200 and £1 - £1.50 litre.
Waste Oil heaters / Burners - Yup, the way a garage can heat itself with waste oil has been stopped, well regulated. Used to be a few £100 for a permit, now its £3600 and an annual fee of £1600. Or you simply buy "clean" oil to heat the workshop.
Trailer laws, used to be that trailers under 1050kg (?) were exempt from regulation, now if you use it for business along with running a tacho, you need an operators licence also.
As I said, some may not be directly from Brussels, but they are affecting small businesses.
Either way, the bigger issues are the fines and increased payments that are demanded over and above the membership fees, where poorer member states receive more than they contribute.
s2art said:
Which thread?
And I would say these guys know more about the actual situation with EU deals and the UK than the Dir Gen of the WTO.
http://www.lawyersforbritain.org/brexit-trade-trea...
That is a tiny group. There is an enormously higher number of more expert lawyers on the other side of the argument. The DG of the WTO definitely knows more than any of the people named on the lawyersforbritain website.And I would say these guys know more about the actual situation with EU deals and the UK than the Dir Gen of the WTO.
http://www.lawyersforbritain.org/brexit-trade-trea...
Edited by s2art on Monday 4th July 19:38
They are:
an IP silk
an IP partner at Wedlake Bell
an EU professional support lawyer at Slaughter and May
one who may be a partner at Farter f
ka pupil barrister and
an associate at CMS
Edited by Zod on Monday 4th July 20:26
Derek Smith said:
KrissKross said:
PositronicRay said:
KrissKross said:
PositronicRay said:
The benefit of plenty of this EU stuff, it's not subject to political pressure. So it just happens, often for the best.
Thinking about environment and vacuum cleaners, investment in poorer areas.
I quite like that, if we had "free choice" it'd never happen.
Are you serious..Thinking about environment and vacuum cleaners, investment in poorer areas.
I quite like that, if we had "free choice" it'd never happen.
Ergo without EU they'd never exist.
Democracy can only go so far, 5yrs isn't a long time to be in power. Sometimes you need someone to just say "you know what, like it or not, this is what's going to happen"
I don't want a dictatorship (unless they have the wisdom of Solomon which is unlikely) but democracy is flawed (look at the last Labour leadership contest)
Cheap to run as well don't forget.
The point is some things work better beyond political control.
Another example (flame me if you wish)
A number of years ago the economy was in a boom bust cycle. "Oh heavens general election due, lets reduce interest rates to give everyone a feel good factor". "Oh s
t inflations out of control braaaaake." Remember 15% base rate in the 80's?So interest rates were taken out of political control and given to the governor of the bank of England, who has now been charged with maintaining a stable economy.
Guess what? It works.
Edited by PositronicRay on Monday 4th July 20:27
PositronicRay said:
The vacuum cleaners aren't really the point, merely an example.
The point is some things work better beyond political control.
Another example (flame me if you wish)
A number of years ago the economy was in a boom bust cycle. "Oh heavens general election due, lets reduce interest rates to give everyone a feel good factor". "Oh st inflations out of control braaaaake." Remember 15% base rate in the 80's?
So interest rates were taken out of political control and given to the governor of the bank of England, who has now been charged with maintaining a stable economy.
Guess what? It works.
OK so best leave product design and energy issues to engineers and not clueless politicians. I would agree with that.The point is some things work better beyond political control.
Another example (flame me if you wish)
A number of years ago the economy was in a boom bust cycle. "Oh heavens general election due, lets reduce interest rates to give everyone a feel good factor". "Oh s
t inflations out of control braaaaake." Remember 15% base rate in the 80's?So interest rates were taken out of political control and given to the governor of the bank of England, who has now been charged with maintaining a stable economy.
Guess what? It works.
Edited by PositronicRay on Monday 4th July 20:27
KrissKross said:
PositronicRay said:
The vacuum cleaners aren't really the point, merely an example.
The point is some things work better beyond political control.
Another example (flame me if you wish)
A number of years ago the economy was in a boom bust cycle. "Oh heavens general election due, lets reduce interest rates to give everyone a feel good factor". "Oh st inflations out of control braaaaake." Remember 15% base rate in the 80's?
So interest rates were taken out of political control and given to the governor of the bank of England, who has now been charged with maintaining a stable economy.
Guess what? It works.
OK so best leave product design and energy issues to engineers and not clueless politicians. I would agree with that.The point is some things work better beyond political control.
Another example (flame me if you wish)
A number of years ago the economy was in a boom bust cycle. "Oh heavens general election due, lets reduce interest rates to give everyone a feel good factor". "Oh s
t inflations out of control braaaaake." Remember 15% base rate in the 80's?So interest rates were taken out of political control and given to the governor of the bank of England, who has now been charged with maintaining a stable economy.
Guess what? It works.
Edited by PositronicRay on Monday 4th July 20:27
However many companies are reluctant to spend on development, unless they have to. The environment isn't a vote winner.
PositronicRay said:
Engineers are good
However many companies are reluctant to spend on development, unless they have to. The environment isn't a vote winner.
Hahaha total nonsense. So companies that are successful just keep their products the same as last year and hope for the best.However many companies are reluctant to spend on development, unless they have to. The environment isn't a vote winner.
Are you reading what you are posting on your blackberry..
don4l said:
If lower powered machines are better, then why don't you go the whole hog, and simply not plug them in? That would make them extremely low powered.
Maybe the vacuum cleaner would be much more efficient if it didn't have a motor at all.
Kettles with less power are less efficient. Their elements are as near as dammit 100% efficient. The longer that they take to boil the water, the more heat is lost to the kitchen.
I'm no electrician but I think you'll find that they won't work without electricity and they won't work without a motor. Maybe the vacuum cleaner would be much more efficient if it didn't have a motor at all.
Kettles with less power are less efficient. Their elements are as near as dammit 100% efficient. The longer that they take to boil the water, the more heat is lost to the kitchen.
PositronicRay said:
The vacuum cleaners aren't really the point, merely an example.
The point is some things work better beyond political control.
Another example (flame me if you wish)
A number of years ago the economy was in a boom bust cycle. "Oh heavens general election due, lets reduce interest rates to give everyone a feel good factor". "Oh st inflations out of control braaaaake." Remember 15% base rate in the 80's?
So interest rates were taken out of political control and given to the governor of the bank of England, who has now been charged with maintaining a stable economy.
Guess what? It works.
As pointed out, it is not the politicians who make the decisions on wattage.The point is some things work better beyond political control.
Another example (flame me if you wish)
A number of years ago the economy was in a boom bust cycle. "Oh heavens general election due, lets reduce interest rates to give everyone a feel good factor". "Oh s
t inflations out of control braaaaake." Remember 15% base rate in the 80's?So interest rates were taken out of political control and given to the governor of the bank of England, who has now been charged with maintaining a stable economy.
Guess what? It works.
Edited by PositronicRay on Monday 4th July 20:27
And with regards political control of money, why don't we leave it to the professionals, like the banks. They'll know what to do to ensure stability.
KrissKross said:
PositronicRay said:
Engineers are good
However many companies are reluctant to spend on development, unless they have to. The environment isn't a vote winner.
Hahaha total nonsense. So companies that are successful just keep their products the same as last year and hope for the best.However many companies are reluctant to spend on development, unless they have to. The environment isn't a vote winner.
Are you reading what you are posting on your blackberry..
Like I said environment and common sense aren't always a high priority.
s2art said:
jjlynn27 said:
s2art said:
Which thread?
And I would say these guys know more about the actual situation with EU deals and the UK than the Dir Gen of the WTO.
http://www.lawyersforbritain.org/brexit-trade-trea...
One of the other brexit threads. Use search.And I would say these guys know more about the actual situation with EU deals and the UK than the Dir Gen of the WTO.
http://www.lawyersforbritain.org/brexit-trade-trea...
Edited by s2art on Monday 4th July 19:38
Your answer to a statement from dir gen of WTO is link to lobbying group? Ok, trust them.
On that same page lawyersforbritain state that EFTA would quickly welcome us. Norway PM said, no, we need to think if UK would diminish our influence, but we are open to other deals.
They are so ridiculously biased that it's not even funny.
Anyway, wrong tread.
There is a thread called Negotiators, all information is there. I'd imagine that Zod would know more about lawyersforbritain than you.
Back to regulation.
don4l said:
Zod said:
don4l said:
I've mentioned RoHS before. One of my suppliers closed down because they couldn't afford the changes.
80 people lost their jobs.
Did that supplier (or do you) sell into the US? Is the EDEE Act not a problem? What about the equivalent Japanese, Chinese or Korean legislation? 80 people lost their jobs.
The odd thing is that there is an exemption for Military equipment. However, military infrastructure is not necessarily "equipment".
Things like this are painful to watch. They tend to be difficult to explain to people who are not directly affected.
I've mentioned the WEEE regulations a couple of times, but I don't think that anyone understood what I said. They cost me £1000 a year and there is absolutely no benefit at all to society, or to the environment.
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