What's so bad about EU regulation anyway?
Discussion
jjlynn27 said:
KrissKross said:
OK so best leave product design and energy issues to engineers and not clueless politicians. I would agree with that.
You think that politicians decide on things like power for vacuum cleaners and VOC content in paint? 
Balmoral said:
munky said:
Erm... UK laws are created by elected MPs, EU laws are created by elected MEPs.
Nope.Our elected MP's propose, debate, amend and then vote to make the laws, which are also debated and amended by the unelected Lords (who can't do the propose/make bit). In the EU it is the other way around, the elected MEP's do the debating/amending bit only, they cannot propose or make the laws, the unelected commission does that.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong because its important.
As I mentioned further up on p7 of the thread (excerpt from the European parliament website)
munky said:
"Parliament has a power of political initiative
It can ask the Commission to present legislative proposals for laws to the Council.
It plays a genuine role in creating new laws, since it examines the Commission's annual programme of work and says which laws it would like to see introduced."
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutparliament/en/2...
Not all legislation follows the same process though, to be fair, but it's still voted on by MEPs.
Is it all that different to the UK? After all, UK parliament doesn't sit there all day writing legislation, it proposes, debates and votes on it. Parliamentary Counsel (unelected) actually writes it, based on broad principles, before it goes for its first reading in the commons.It can ask the Commission to present legislative proposals for laws to the Council.
It plays a genuine role in creating new laws, since it examines the Commission's annual programme of work and says which laws it would like to see introduced."
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutparliament/en/2...
Not all legislation follows the same process though, to be fair, but it's still voted on by MEPs.
PositronicRay said:
KrissKross said:
PositronicRay said:
The vacuum cleaners aren't really the point, merely an example.
The point is some things work better beyond political control.
Another example (flame me if you wish)
A number of years ago the economy was in a boom bust cycle. "Oh heavens general election due, lets reduce interest rates to give everyone a feel good factor". "Oh s
t inflations out of control braaaaake." Remember 15% base rate in the 80's?
So interest rates were taken out of political control and given to the governor of the bank of England, who has now been charged with maintaining a stable economy.
Guess what? It works.
OK so best leave product design and energy issues to engineers and not clueless politicians. I would agree with that.The point is some things work better beyond political control.
Another example (flame me if you wish)
A number of years ago the economy was in a boom bust cycle. "Oh heavens general election due, lets reduce interest rates to give everyone a feel good factor". "Oh s
t inflations out of control braaaaake." Remember 15% base rate in the 80's?So interest rates were taken out of political control and given to the governor of the bank of England, who has now been charged with maintaining a stable economy.
Guess what? It works.
Edited by PositronicRay on Monday 4th July 20:27
However many companies are reluctant to spend on development, unless they have to. The environment isn't a vote winner.
The environment is definitely not a vote winner.
Just look at how our elected politicians have allowed the environment to be filled with bird and bat killing eyesores.
They are destroying our environment with their bloody windmills.
PositronicRay said:
Not long ago many TV's only had a standby button, regs now mean they have to have an "off" button.
Like I said environment and common sense aren't always a high priority.
I am still not clear what you are getting at. Are you suggesting that designers and engineers do not improve things without interference from people who have no skills in design or engineering?Like I said environment and common sense aren't always a high priority.
KrissKross said:
PositronicRay said:
Not long ago many TV's only had a standby button, regs now mean they have to have an "off" button.
Like I said environment and common sense aren't always a high priority.
I am still not clear what you are getting at. Are you suggesting that designers and engineers do not improve things without interference from people who have no skills in design or engineering?Like I said environment and common sense aren't always a high priority.
jamoor said:
We leave the EU.
Firms will still comply to EU standards like some firms in the medical arena comply to FDA standards as that's the standard that's recognised globally.
Exactly EU standards (mostly) work. Firms will still comply to EU standards like some firms in the medical arena comply to FDA standards as that's the standard that's recognised globally.
You'd almost think from this thread that EU standards are a bad thing, and reason to leave.
Jockman said:
Derek Smith said:
There are silly complaints about the regs. Someone earlier mentioned vacuum cleaners being less effective because wattage is limited. Firstly, this ignores the fact that wattage is hardly the measurement of suction, and secondly, the Which reports often favour the lower wattage, high suction cleaners. I've got one. It is superb.
Funny you should mention that. As you are aware Which? were very much against this move by the EU but now they've tested them....they are giving it the thumbs up !!Think you may just have stirred up the same daft arguments as before
KrissKross said:
jjlynn27 said:
You think that politicians decide on things like power for vacuum cleaners and VOC content in paint?
Missing the point as usual.It is not politicians that come up with the new ideas. Scientists and engineers do. then they inform the politicians, who in turn request assessments carried out, from which policy can be derived.
KrissKross said:
Efbe said:
I think you are.
It is not politicians that come up with the new ideas. Scientists and engineers do. then they inform the politicians, who in turn request assessments carried out, from which policy can be derived.
So windmills comes under this category?It is not politicians that come up with the new ideas. Scientists and engineers do. then they inform the politicians, who in turn request assessments carried out, from which policy can be derived.
Please actually construct a coherent question I can understand.
jjlynn27 said:
Do you seriously believe that your democracy is eroded by regulators sitting in Brux rather than Whitehall? As far as I understand they are civil servants anyway rather than government, so not sure how would you vote to replace them.
Are you really saying that the people creating laws in the EU are more like civil servants and that you don't know how anyone in the EU could vote to replace them? I find it frightening that their are millions of people like you who seem to want us to remain in this club. jjlynn27 said:
Which particular regulation is blighting your day to day life?
You're not getting this. It's the same as the free speech argument. I will defend the right of free speech even if I disagree with what is being said in a particular scenario. Likewise I will defend everyone's democratic right to kick out a government even if the current incumbent is doing something I personally agree with.In your own words "not sure how would you vote to replace them". That is why I voted leave. For your sake as well as mine.
alock said:
jjlynn27 said:
Do you seriously believe that your democracy is eroded by regulators sitting in Brux rather than Whitehall? As far as I understand they are civil servants anyway rather than government, so not sure how would you vote to replace them.
Are you really saying that the people creating laws in the EU are more like civil servants and that you don't know how anyone in the EU could vote to replace them? I find it frightening that their are millions of people like you who seem to want us to remain in this club. jjlynn27 said:
Which particular regulation is blighting your day to day life?
You're not getting this. It's the same as the free speech argument. I will defend the right of free speech even if I disagree with what is being said in a particular scenario. Likewise I will defend everyone's democratic right to kick out a government even if the current incumbent is doing something I personally agree with.In your own words "not sure how would you vote to replace them". That is why I voted leave. For your sake as well as mine.
which laws are irking you so?
given that you won't answer that...
>we have MEPs (albeit pointless UKIP ones that have ironically f
ked up our chances of leaving and have brought us unfavourable legislation by not bothering to turn up to vote!) that can stop poor legislation coming through.>Even if we leave, we still need this legislation as we will want to sell to EU countries. Just we won't have a choice over what is implemented.
alock said:
jjlynn27 said:
Do you seriously believe that your democracy is eroded by regulators sitting in Brux rather than Whitehall? As far as I understand they are civil servants anyway rather than government, so not sure how would you vote to replace them.
Are you really saying that the people creating laws in the EU are more like civil servants and that you don't know how anyone in the EU could vote to replace them? I find it frightening that their are millions of people like you who seem to want us to remain in this club. jjlynn27 said:
Which particular regulation is blighting your day to day life?
You're not getting this. It's the same as the free speech argument. I will defend the right of free speech even if I disagree with what is being said in a particular scenario. Likewise I will defend everyone's democratic right to kick out a government even if the current incumbent is doing something I personally agree with.In your own words "not sure how would you vote to replace them". That is why I voted leave. For your sake as well as mine.
I asked which regulation has an impact on your everyday life. Comparison with free speech is nonsense and you know it.
This is not about laws, this is about regulations, examples were given over and over again. You are conflating the two in order to avoid the question; which regulation is having impact on your life. You are free to continue the dodge. You find things frightening? Not sure that I could help with that.
Once again, we are talking about regulations. If they are not made in brux, they'll be made here. If we want to export stuff to single market, our regulations will have to match theirs.
You can either answer these questions, or you can do 'I'll defend the right of a free speech of others' dance.
alock said:
You're not getting this. It's the same as the free speech argument. I will defend the right of free speech even if I disagree with what is being said in a particular scenario. Likewise I will defend everyone's democratic right to kick out a government even if the current incumbent is doing something I personally agree with.
In your own words "not sure how would you vote to replace them". That is why I voted leave. For your sake as well as mine.
I understand now, it's not about the regulation, it's about your democratic right to be disagree with stuff. It's the principle of the thing, (whatever that thing is In your own words "not sure how would you vote to replace them". That is why I voted leave. For your sake as well as mine.
)Are you Victor Meldrew?
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