Farage stands down as UKIP leader
Discussion
We'll see if he carries it through. He has previous on reneging on such inviting promises.
That said, for all that I loathe his culturkampf, with its implicit xenophobia, there is no denying that he's largely responsible for where we are now. Not sure it's fair to cast accusations of being a quitter at him: he's largely achieved what UKIP (otherwise known as James Goldsmith's referendum party) was set up to achieve. Force the Tories to deliver on a referendum and then win it.
To the extent that UKIP will have a purpose going forward, will be largely dependent on its ability to mutate into a working class alternative to labour. Farage certainly doesn't have the political profile to be able to do that, and seems to have little inclination to do so.
As far as Brexit is concerned, it will largely be a parliamentary exercise which means by default, UKIP has little impact, so him hitting happy trails is more a statement of reality than bailing before the 'hard s
t' needs to get done.
That said, for all that I loathe his culturkampf, with its implicit xenophobia, there is no denying that he's largely responsible for where we are now. Not sure it's fair to cast accusations of being a quitter at him: he's largely achieved what UKIP (otherwise known as James Goldsmith's referendum party) was set up to achieve. Force the Tories to deliver on a referendum and then win it.
To the extent that UKIP will have a purpose going forward, will be largely dependent on its ability to mutate into a working class alternative to labour. Farage certainly doesn't have the political profile to be able to do that, and seems to have little inclination to do so.
As far as Brexit is concerned, it will largely be a parliamentary exercise which means by default, UKIP has little impact, so him hitting happy trails is more a statement of reality than bailing before the 'hard s
t' needs to get done. don4l said:
Leroy902 said:
Jumping off the sinking ship as well!?
The ship isn't sinking.It has reached its destination.
The Captain has done his job.
But he did a darn good job getting us where we are now and avoiding the icebergs.
don4l said:
Leroy902 said:
Jumping off the sinking ship as well!?
The ship isn't sinking.It has reached its destination.
The Captain has done his job.
And everyone who got on at the start of the journey suddenly wants to go back to where they came from because they've realised the destination is a 2nd rate s
t hole with no future.And the Captain appears to have jumped ship.
Apart from that everything is fine.
ash73 said:
lostkiwi said:
Successful?
He rarely attended the EU votes. He didn't represent his constituency (South East) who elected him to look after their interests in Europe (SE were largely pro-remain).
He pursued his own political agenda irrespective of what he was paid to do.
That's not successful - that's ego.
I can see your point, but in this instance his agenda to get us out of Europe was more important than his constituents' trivial domestic requirements. The bigger picture, if you will. In a representative democracy we elect leaders to represent us as experts, and make decisions on our behalf, not just vocalise the majority view [in his own constituency]. If the UK improves post EU exit, as I think it will, there will be plenty of people claiming credit; but it was all down to one man.He rarely attended the EU votes. He didn't represent his constituency (South East) who elected him to look after their interests in Europe (SE were largely pro-remain).
He pursued his own political agenda irrespective of what he was paid to do.
That's not successful - that's ego.
Is that not the nature of democracy?
Carrying your argument of "represent us as experts and make decisions on our behalf" I would take it that you will have no objections if the government overrides that trivial referendum and keeps us in the EU if in their expert opinion its the best thing for the country....
Ridgemont said:
We'll see if he carries it through. He has previous on reneging on such inviting promises.
That said, for all that I loathe his culturkampf, with its implicit xenophobia, there is no denying that he's largely responsible for where we are now. Not sure it's fair to cast accusations of being a quitter at him: he's largely achieved what UKIP (otherwise known as James Goldsmith's referendum party) was set up to achieve. Force the Tories to deliver on a referendum and then win it.
To the extent that UKIP will have a purpose going forward, will be largely dependent on its ability to mutate into a working class alternative to labour. Farage certainly doesn't have the political profile to be able to do that, and seems to have little inclination to do so.
As far as Brexit is concerned, it will largely be a parliamentary exercise which means by default, UKIP has little impact, so him hitting happy trails is more a statement of reality than bailing before the 'hard st' needs to get done.
Actually I was reading this interview last night with Andrew Roberts (historian) on Jimmy Goldsmith: http://www.spearswms.com/historian-andrew-roberts-...That said, for all that I loathe his culturkampf, with its implicit xenophobia, there is no denying that he's largely responsible for where we are now. Not sure it's fair to cast accusations of being a quitter at him: he's largely achieved what UKIP (otherwise known as James Goldsmith's referendum party) was set up to achieve. Force the Tories to deliver on a referendum and then win it.
To the extent that UKIP will have a purpose going forward, will be largely dependent on its ability to mutate into a working class alternative to labour. Farage certainly doesn't have the political profile to be able to do that, and seems to have little inclination to do so.
As far as Brexit is concerned, it will largely be a parliamentary exercise which means by default, UKIP has little impact, so him hitting happy trails is more a statement of reality than bailing before the 'hard s
t' needs to get done. You have to admire Goldsmith and the longterm planning/view he had on the most successful way to get an exit vote all the way back in '97: destabilise the Tories and force a referendum. Pretty impressive mind to see with clarity, and put such a longterm plan into effect. Shame he isn't around to savour his victory.
Andrew Roberts said:
We would not be having the Referendum we are today if it wasn’t for Jimmy, to ensure the British people had their say on the EU. At the end of his life he put enormous energy and his own resources to apply as much pressure as possible on John Major’s Government in the 1997 election.
As we knew there was no more campaigning to be done and the polls had closed, the day of the eve of the 1997 election, myself, Kate Reardon, Robin Birley and Patrick Robertson all sat down to a jolly lunch in Mayfair and to share anecdotes of the campaign. He was very upbeat about how many Tory seats The Referendum Party was going to cost John Major.
As Jimmy was a gambling man, he predicted he would deny John Major between 15 and 20 seats. In the event there was a Labour landslide and although they didn’t win any seats, it was 21 seats The Referendum Party had a meaningful impact on. There are not many billionaires today who have the intellectual stature and grasp of the full consequences of remaining in the EU as Jimmy had.
Jimmy knew he was dying and he deliberately elongated his life and stopped medication in order to remain intellectually sharp at the cost of enormous physical pain. He put his country before his own personal well being. It was incredibly brave of him.
As we knew there was no more campaigning to be done and the polls had closed, the day of the eve of the 1997 election, myself, Kate Reardon, Robin Birley and Patrick Robertson all sat down to a jolly lunch in Mayfair and to share anecdotes of the campaign. He was very upbeat about how many Tory seats The Referendum Party was going to cost John Major.
As Jimmy was a gambling man, he predicted he would deny John Major between 15 and 20 seats. In the event there was a Labour landslide and although they didn’t win any seats, it was 21 seats The Referendum Party had a meaningful impact on. There are not many billionaires today who have the intellectual stature and grasp of the full consequences of remaining in the EU as Jimmy had.
Jimmy knew he was dying and he deliberately elongated his life and stopped medication in order to remain intellectually sharp at the cost of enormous physical pain. He put his country before his own personal well being. It was incredibly brave of him.
lostkiwi said:
Successful?
He rarely attended the EU votes. He didn't represent his constituency (South East) who elected him to look after their interests in Europe (SE were largely pro-remain).
He pursued his own political agenda irrespective of what he was paid to do.
That's not successful - that's ego.
I voted for him.He rarely attended the EU votes. He didn't represent his constituency (South East) who elected him to look after their interests in Europe (SE were largely pro-remain).
He pursued his own political agenda irrespective of what he was paid to do.
That's not successful - that's ego.
He did exactly what I wanted.
I didn't vote for him to look after my interests in Europe. I voted for him to take us out of Europe.
He has done everything that I, and everybody else that voted for him, wanted him to do.
boxxob said:
audidoody said:
Sam All said:
Greg66 said:
He's most likely going to move to Germany to enjoy some time with his German wife.
He lives in the UK, with his wife. What's your point?The way he managed to get UKIP elected to the body he was against must say a huge amount for him
He was ostracised from Brexit - that was/is Johnson Gove territory
The UKIP is dead. Its backers are now history. They have nothing to gain from supporting the party and most will pull the plug. He's just left something that will soon no longer exist.
Those who left the tories for UKIP, and so frightened Cameron that he offered the referendum, probably expecting to blame the libdems in the coalition for dropping it, will now return. Those labour voters will probably return to the fold.
Those who left the tories for UKIP, and so frightened Cameron that he offered the referendum, probably expecting to blame the libdems in the coalition for dropping it, will now return. Those labour voters will probably return to the fold.
PositronicRay said:
UKIP will be nothing without him and fade into obscurity, so he'll be welcome back with open arms.
He's making himself free so he's available to work on the Brexit negotiation team. It's rumoured that if Angela Leadsom becomes PM, she'd like him to be involved.
Kilroy-Silk is at a bit of a loose end I hear...He's making himself free so he's available to work on the Brexit negotiation team. It's rumoured that if Angela Leadsom becomes PM, she'd like him to be involved.
Derek Smith said:
The UKIP is dead. Its backers are now history. They have nothing to gain from supporting the party and most will pull the plug. He's just left something that will soon no longer exist.
Those who left the tories for UKIP, and so frightened Cameron that he offered the referendum, probably expecting to blame the libdems in the coalition for dropping it, will now return. Those labour voters will probably return to the fold.
Agree with the first part - as Malcolm Rifkind as pointed out, the most significant policy issue of the last 40 years, which divided the Tory party top to bottom (and mostly the bottom from the top) has been resolved. Otherwise the Tory party is remarkably intellectually unified on Education, Health, Defence etc.Those who left the tories for UKIP, and so frightened Cameron that he offered the referendum, probably expecting to blame the libdems in the coalition for dropping it, will now return. Those labour voters will probably return to the fold.
On the second part re Labour I think that may be wishful thinking. Labour is currently in the hands of momentum, and has not indicated that it has a desire to listen to the disenfranchised northern vote. There is a vacuum there. Who will take advantage is anyone's guess (Lib Dems? UKIP? Red Tories?) but my guess is it won't be Labour...
Derek Smith said:
The UKIP is dead. Its backers are now history. They have nothing to gain from supporting the party and most will pull the plug. He's just left something that will soon no longer exist.
Those who left the tories for UKIP, and so frightened Cameron that he offered the referendum, probably expecting to blame the libdems in the coalition for dropping it, will now return. Those labour voters will probably return to the fold.
If the Labour Party splits they might have a choice as to which one to vote for! Those who left the tories for UKIP, and so frightened Cameron that he offered the referendum, probably expecting to blame the libdems in the coalition for dropping it, will now return. Those labour voters will probably return to the fold.
PositronicRay said:
UKIP will be nothing without him and fade into obscurity, so he'll be welcome back with open arms.
He's making himself free so he's available to work on the Brexit negotiation team. It's rumoured that if Angela Leadsom becomes PM, she'd like him to be involved.
She's just categorically ruled that out in her press conference this morning.He's making himself free so he's available to work on the Brexit negotiation team. It's rumoured that if Angela Leadsom becomes PM, she'd like him to be involved.
In other news.
29th of June.
"Leave donor plans new party to replace Ukip – possibly without Farage in charge"
"Ukip funder Arron Banks criticised the party’s growth and proposed harnessing Brexit support in a new party. When asked if Farage would be in charge, he said the Ukip leader “may have had enough”.
29th of June.
"Leave donor plans new party to replace Ukip – possibly without Farage in charge"
"Ukip funder Arron Banks criticised the party’s growth and proposed harnessing Brexit support in a new party. When asked if Farage would be in charge, he said the Ukip leader “may have had enough”.
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