R - first drive
Discussion
Just drove the R at Silverstone PEC. Wow oh wow. It's everything and more that I'd hoped. And that is also in spite of the fact that I had extremely high hopes. How can you not amongst all the hype and fervour of such a car.
Putting to one side the supply and finances, it's really just a very special car. A very special 911. To me it felt like a hybrid of old and new. For starters it's got a wonderful driving position as per all 997 and 991 that I have driven. You sit low and have good adjustment. The steering wheel can be nicely adjusted to right where it needs to be. I did have it maxed out both in reach and vertical though, but it was perfect for me. So it was nice and close to me and up against the dash/column with no further scope. You can still see the dials clearly though and have good visibility out over the wheel too. The pedals are absolutely spot on for heel and toe. You might as well remove the fuse for the sport button and the Rev match feature, they are that good. Some recent Porsches have had a very firm brake pedal that sits too high relative to the throttle, making it awkward to heel and toe in normal driving conditions. This was never an issue under hard driving as you could use sufficient brake pressure to mitigate the slight misplacement of the pedals. But in the R, it's not an issue at all and heel and toe was totally intuitive from the off, at all speeds.
This car had the low mass flywheel. It's just like the 997s not surprisingly. It's less noisy and chuntery though than a 3.8 RS or 4.0 RS. It's not something that I would have paid too much attention to had the instructor not pointed it out, it just felt and sounded like the old cars. The gearbox felt really stiff and notchty when we were sat in the paddock chatting. But on the move it comes alive. I've read reviews that it's not as sweet as the Caymans, I would disagree. At speed it felt wonderful and you just slotted through the gears. It also seemed to have a slightly shorter throw, but marginally more mechanical. If that's the manual for the next GT3 then we don't have any worries there.
I didn't drive it for very long to be honest as there is only so much to discover with an instructor sat next to you. I always like to be on my own with a new car at first, but Porsche owned that one so its their rules! Still I probably did 15 laps of their two circuits and although I didn't really know where I was going I knew it enough to press on a bit and get a feel for the balance. Compared to the latest RS' etc you're just aware of the lack of grip - but in such a great way. It's obviously softer and it feels more fluid on the move. There's a nice compliance to the car. But it also has this 458 trait of feeling like its up on its tippy toes. That car is sublime to drive from a handling perspective. Just so much fun. This is the same - it wants to change direction. We had a little bit of drizzle on our run and I was aware of the fact that I could feel the front tyres sliding and the rear wanting to slide to. This was even before the track got damp. It felt really alive. But feeling the fronts slide and scrabble for grip was pretty special as I can't remember having that so clearly telegraphed back to me through the steering wheel of a modern car. Does it even have the electric rack? If it does they've cracked it. People harp on and on about feel, you can sound like a bigot but then you remember it's nice when you've got some, I must say. For me in a car like that with so much feel, it just urges me on to drive faster and faster. Always a good time to park up someone else's brand new car that's on the first day of extended demo work - especially as it was drizzling. That said it speaks volumes that even in the damp (ish) you just have bags of confidence thanks to the feedback you get. You just want to start edging up to the limit even after a lap or two. And over it for that matter. That's the difference with the 991 RS. The R feels smaller and more wieldy. It feels like a 90s car by comparison, in terms of weight and size. Apart from the ridiculous amount of poke it's got anyway. It sort of shrinks about you like the old cars. The 991 RS does feel a big car, especially so after having driven the R. It just feels like a big car for a 911 full stop. But driving the RS at Combe a week or two ago, I can say I loved it but for different reasons. I was blown away by its performance for a road car. The grip, the speed. But it felt big and it felt like I wanted to drive it somewhere with more run off to get to know its limits. I know it's got a great balance and is very friendly on the limit but the speeds are huge and so is the grip level, so I would say it takes more time to get used to. The R the limits are lower and you're at the limit more easily, that's what we want for road cars. But because it also feels smaller and lighter it's like a Caterham by comparison, where as the RS is like a race car. So the R is rewarding all the time whereas with the RS it's very rewarding but with less opportunity to access it's greatness. I guess it's the mechanical grip of the R playing out over the aero dominant grip of the RS. I've always doubted the levels of aero on the RS but the R feels so different it must have a big impact on the feel of the car. As I say the front and the rear want to slide, goading you on and just making you want to immerse yourself in the driving moment. With the RS you just go as fast as you can and on the standard set up you run out of front end first. In the high speed it just wants to understeer. But the limits are so high on the RS that it can feel a bit dull - on the road anyway, you also have to be going much quicker and harder to get to the point where it's involving. And that is the beauty of the R, even at parking speeds I was happy in it. God it felt good to be really driving something, that was built to be driven. Tell you what, we are lucky with this Preuninger bloke, he really gets it. These cars are really where it's at in this era. I can't think of another car I would want over an R. I will keep the RS but it has made it slightly redundant. The R might be slower on track but it'd be more fun and even more adjustable/entertaining. It could then also take you back to town or to a meeting in real comfort without you needing to feel like a berk. I love my RS but I do feel silly in it sometimes, until I'm flat out anyway. So balls to it, I'm keeping them both. According to the other forums the RS is depreciating like a used condom anyway.
L
Putting to one side the supply and finances, it's really just a very special car. A very special 911. To me it felt like a hybrid of old and new. For starters it's got a wonderful driving position as per all 997 and 991 that I have driven. You sit low and have good adjustment. The steering wheel can be nicely adjusted to right where it needs to be. I did have it maxed out both in reach and vertical though, but it was perfect for me. So it was nice and close to me and up against the dash/column with no further scope. You can still see the dials clearly though and have good visibility out over the wheel too. The pedals are absolutely spot on for heel and toe. You might as well remove the fuse for the sport button and the Rev match feature, they are that good. Some recent Porsches have had a very firm brake pedal that sits too high relative to the throttle, making it awkward to heel and toe in normal driving conditions. This was never an issue under hard driving as you could use sufficient brake pressure to mitigate the slight misplacement of the pedals. But in the R, it's not an issue at all and heel and toe was totally intuitive from the off, at all speeds.
This car had the low mass flywheel. It's just like the 997s not surprisingly. It's less noisy and chuntery though than a 3.8 RS or 4.0 RS. It's not something that I would have paid too much attention to had the instructor not pointed it out, it just felt and sounded like the old cars. The gearbox felt really stiff and notchty when we were sat in the paddock chatting. But on the move it comes alive. I've read reviews that it's not as sweet as the Caymans, I would disagree. At speed it felt wonderful and you just slotted through the gears. It also seemed to have a slightly shorter throw, but marginally more mechanical. If that's the manual for the next GT3 then we don't have any worries there.
I didn't drive it for very long to be honest as there is only so much to discover with an instructor sat next to you. I always like to be on my own with a new car at first, but Porsche owned that one so its their rules! Still I probably did 15 laps of their two circuits and although I didn't really know where I was going I knew it enough to press on a bit and get a feel for the balance. Compared to the latest RS' etc you're just aware of the lack of grip - but in such a great way. It's obviously softer and it feels more fluid on the move. There's a nice compliance to the car. But it also has this 458 trait of feeling like its up on its tippy toes. That car is sublime to drive from a handling perspective. Just so much fun. This is the same - it wants to change direction. We had a little bit of drizzle on our run and I was aware of the fact that I could feel the front tyres sliding and the rear wanting to slide to. This was even before the track got damp. It felt really alive. But feeling the fronts slide and scrabble for grip was pretty special as I can't remember having that so clearly telegraphed back to me through the steering wheel of a modern car. Does it even have the electric rack? If it does they've cracked it. People harp on and on about feel, you can sound like a bigot but then you remember it's nice when you've got some, I must say. For me in a car like that with so much feel, it just urges me on to drive faster and faster. Always a good time to park up someone else's brand new car that's on the first day of extended demo work - especially as it was drizzling. That said it speaks volumes that even in the damp (ish) you just have bags of confidence thanks to the feedback you get. You just want to start edging up to the limit even after a lap or two. And over it for that matter. That's the difference with the 991 RS. The R feels smaller and more wieldy. It feels like a 90s car by comparison, in terms of weight and size. Apart from the ridiculous amount of poke it's got anyway. It sort of shrinks about you like the old cars. The 991 RS does feel a big car, especially so after having driven the R. It just feels like a big car for a 911 full stop. But driving the RS at Combe a week or two ago, I can say I loved it but for different reasons. I was blown away by its performance for a road car. The grip, the speed. But it felt big and it felt like I wanted to drive it somewhere with more run off to get to know its limits. I know it's got a great balance and is very friendly on the limit but the speeds are huge and so is the grip level, so I would say it takes more time to get used to. The R the limits are lower and you're at the limit more easily, that's what we want for road cars. But because it also feels smaller and lighter it's like a Caterham by comparison, where as the RS is like a race car. So the R is rewarding all the time whereas with the RS it's very rewarding but with less opportunity to access it's greatness. I guess it's the mechanical grip of the R playing out over the aero dominant grip of the RS. I've always doubted the levels of aero on the RS but the R feels so different it must have a big impact on the feel of the car. As I say the front and the rear want to slide, goading you on and just making you want to immerse yourself in the driving moment. With the RS you just go as fast as you can and on the standard set up you run out of front end first. In the high speed it just wants to understeer. But the limits are so high on the RS that it can feel a bit dull - on the road anyway, you also have to be going much quicker and harder to get to the point where it's involving. And that is the beauty of the R, even at parking speeds I was happy in it. God it felt good to be really driving something, that was built to be driven. Tell you what, we are lucky with this Preuninger bloke, he really gets it. These cars are really where it's at in this era. I can't think of another car I would want over an R. I will keep the RS but it has made it slightly redundant. The R might be slower on track but it'd be more fun and even more adjustable/entertaining. It could then also take you back to town or to a meeting in real comfort without you needing to feel like a berk. I love my RS but I do feel silly in it sometimes, until I'm flat out anyway. So balls to it, I'm keeping them both. According to the other forums the RS is depreciating like a used condom anyway.
L
Edited by pistolp on Friday 15th July 17:09
Edited by pistolp on Friday 15th July 17:09
Sounds very good , especially coming from someone who can drive properly
I've not been reading the reviews, until last night. as was unhappy at not being allocated a car.
Yesterday, out of the blue, I was allocated a car! Just specced it an hour ago, and getting built in Sept. Can't wait now...
I've not been reading the reviews, until last night. as was unhappy at not being allocated a car.
Yesterday, out of the blue, I was allocated a car! Just specced it an hour ago, and getting built in Sept. Can't wait now...
The reviews are good. But I just think road testers test so many cars that sometimes it can all sound a bit samey. Also the R has been a victim of its supply situation, some will just look upon it with cynicism and perhaps understandably. But as a car it's wonderful. It really is. I miss it already. I'm having a son in Aug and then the R arrives in Sept, I'm excited by both and it's too close to call!
Just looked at you profile v8, that's a lovely GT3. Honestly it's the same DNA, really it's splitting hairs. Any 997 GT3 is head and shoulders better than all other road cars.
Footsoldier, you really did get lucky!
Just looked at you profile v8, that's a lovely GT3. Honestly it's the same DNA, really it's splitting hairs. Any 997 GT3 is head and shoulders better than all other road cars.
Footsoldier, you really did get lucky!
Interesting that. Pretty impressive that Porsche seemingly have been able to engineer mechanical feel in a big way back into the car as none of the 991 range imo really had a lot of that (gt3 and gt4 inclusive).
A lot seems made about the R's lower limits though being much more accessible at road speed but the car still runs gt3 cup2 tyres which have huge amounts of grip even if less than the RS....?
the big question I'd be most interested by is...how does the R compare in terms of driving experience to a 997 gt3? Assume a standard gen2 car for now, nevermind a 7gt3 lightly tweaked with say some top quality dampers and a few manthey bits to drop some weight.
A lot seems made about the R's lower limits though being much more accessible at road speed but the car still runs gt3 cup2 tyres which have huge amounts of grip even if less than the RS....?
the big question I'd be most interested by is...how does the R compare in terms of driving experience to a 997 gt3? Assume a standard gen2 car for now, nevermind a 7gt3 lightly tweaked with say some top quality dampers and a few manthey bits to drop some weight.
Great review, thanks for sharing.
I've got my drive in the R at the PEC in a couple of weeks, so your review has nicely whetted the appetite!
In the meantime, I came across this great review by Jethro comparing the 911R to the 918. Well worth a read - he's one of the best writers out there IMO.
http://www.automobilemag.com/news/porsche-918-spyd...
I've got my drive in the R at the PEC in a couple of weeks, so your review has nicely whetted the appetite!
In the meantime, I came across this great review by Jethro comparing the 911R to the 918. Well worth a read - he's one of the best writers out there IMO.
http://www.automobilemag.com/news/porsche-918-spyd...
Hard call that. For me and for what I want in a car, it's the R over the 4.0. It's more modest looks appeal to me, my spec is plain silver with dark anthracite wheels. It also feels even more agile and alive than the 4.0, probably the rear wheel steering. But really I'd need to drive both back to back on the same road and on the same track. However, as it stands I've never been more excited by a car that I've had coming. I genuinely can't wait to thrash the tits off it and drive it everywhere. I don't drive my 4.0 that often, maybe it just feels a bit ostentatious and also it's evidently more track focused. The subtlety and suppleness of the R is just spot on for me. I'm especially looking forward to driving the R on track. The fact that it's got less grip just means more fun. The lap on YouTube of it going round Hockenheim (I think) and it's just so much looser than the RS. Looks cracking. Constant corrections needed. Not quick, but really fun.
Sounds good. I'm also happy if it's slower but more enjoyable, and at least Porshce are having a go at that, rather than just going faster each time.
I know where you're coming from on the subtle looks, the current RS is over the top for me.
Having said that, I seem to have ended up with a spec with full stripes! Might go back to basics after it arrives.
I know where you're coming from on the subtle looks, the current RS is over the top for me.
Having said that, I seem to have ended up with a spec with full stripes! Might go back to basics after it arrives.
footsoldier said:
Sounds good. I'm also happy if it's slower but more enjoyable, and at least Porshce are having a go at that, rather than just going faster each time.
I know where you're coming from on the subtle looks, the current RS is over the top for me.
Having said that, I seem to have ended up with a spec with full stripes! Might go back to basics after it arrives.
Some have removed the spoiler on the RS - a comparison between that & the R would be good (R benefits from diffusers)I know where you're coming from on the subtle looks, the current RS is over the top for me.
Having said that, I seem to have ended up with a spec with full stripes! Might go back to basics after it arrives.
You may need to change your username again Demon with that comment 
I'd absolutely love one of these, I came very close, but it didn't happen in the end, however, aside from the 918 owners this car was aimed at (for the collection), it has one main appeal and that is long-term value (dreaded residuals!).
For the everyday sports car fan, who maybe can afford one or two of this calibre cars, I'd agree with Demon and question why you'd pay double for a 911R over a GT4 that in many ways offers the same characteristics.
Combine that with the 991.2 GT3 which is likely to have both the engine and manual box from the R, you could save £50k and just rip the wing off!
Probably wrong, but you know....
I'd absolutely love one of these, I came very close, but it didn't happen in the end, however, aside from the 918 owners this car was aimed at (for the collection), it has one main appeal and that is long-term value (dreaded residuals!).
For the everyday sports car fan, who maybe can afford one or two of this calibre cars, I'd agree with Demon and question why you'd pay double for a 911R over a GT4 that in many ways offers the same characteristics.
Combine that with the 991.2 GT3 which is likely to have both the engine and manual box from the R, you could save £50k and just rip the wing off!
Probably wrong, but you know....
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