something afoot in Turkey?

[Halb]

Guvernator said:

Not sure I would call anyone who thinks terrorism is a viable method of getting your way, good allies tbh.

Not every single Kurd is a member of the PKK.

[s1962a]

Halb said:

Guvernator said:

Not sure I would call anyone who thinks terrorism is a viable method of getting your way, good allies tbh.

Not every single Kurd is a member of the PKK.

Didn't we support the Mujahideen in Afghanistan??

[Halb]

s1962a said:

Halb said:

Guvernator said:

Not sure I would call anyone who thinks terrorism is a viable method of getting your way, good allies tbh.

Not every single Kurd is a member of the PKK.

Didn't we support the Mujahideen in Afghanistan??

Did you?

[glazbagun]

Halb said:

s1962a said:

Halb said:

Guvernator said:

Not sure I would call anyone who thinks terrorism is a viable method of getting your way, good allies tbh.

Not every single Kurd is a member of the PKK.

Didn't we support the Mujahideen in Afghanistan??

Did you?

James Bond and Rambo both did.

[Cobnapint]

Oakey said:

Someone on reddit compiled a list;


•86 Banking Regulation and Supervision Agency (BDDK) employees dismissed


•51 Borsa Istanbul (national stock exchange) employees dismissed


•245 Sports Ministry personnel suspended


•All Turkish academics banned from traveling abroad


•Demand for all 1,577 University Deans resignation


•30 governors fired


•9000 in Interior Ministry fired


•180 intelligence officials (MIT, Turkey's national intelligence agency) suspended


•2,745 judges dismissed


•3,000,000 civil servants banned from going on holiday


•Talks of reinstating the death penalty


•1,500 Finance Ministry officials suspended


•103 generals/admirals detained for questioning


•?? soldiers fired/imprisoned


•140 members of the Supreme Court and 48 members of the Council of State (the highest court) got arrest warrants 4 days ago, no info on releases etc.


•15,200 Ministry of Education personnel fired


•24 news/media outlets broadcast licenses withdrawn


•492 state religious personnel (Diyanet) removed


•21,000 private teachers licenses revoked


•393 personnel in Ministry of Family and Social Policy dismissed


•257 personnel at PM's office dismissed & ID's seized

North Turkea

[Guvernator]

Halb said:

Guvernator said:

Not sure I would call anyone who thinks terrorism is a viable method of getting your way, good allies tbh.

Not every single Kurd is a member of the PKK.

Absolutely not, there are millions in Turkey for instance who live very peacefully there but they've mostly integrated into that culture anyway so what would be the point of allying with them? What you have left are mostly the PKK and other militant groups who are doing most of the fighting on the borders of Turkey and Iraq so who would you ally with i.e. how do you separate the good militants from those who think nothing of using suicide bomb attacks against civilians. I'm not too au fait with all the factions in that region but is there even much separation when they all operate in the same small region so surely support each other in some way?

[Halb]

glazbagun said:

James Bond and Rambo both did.

No wonder they won!!!
So did Forest Gump I think

Guvernator said:

Absolutely not, there are millions in Turkey for instance who live very peacefully there but they've mostly integrated into that culture anyway so what would be the point of allying with them? What you have left are mostly the PKK and other militant groups who are doing most of the fighting on the borders of Turkey and Iraq so who would you ally with i.e. how do you separate the good militants from those who think nothing of using suicide bomb attacks against civilians. I'm not too au fait with all the factions in that region but is there even much separation?

I referred to Kurds, meaning the whole, so there is Iraqi Kurdistan. Now if that country appears, it'll have an effect on Turkey, considering the situation Turkey is heading towards, it could be a deleterious one.
The UN supports people's right to self-determination. Turkey might find itself in civil war, with or without adjoining issues. Edrogan already has removed some democratic rights of those in the East.
Where to go from here? It may blow over, like Scottish independence, or it may not.

[Digga]

The PKK are a 'recognised' rebel group fighting IS in Syria though. TBH the Kurdish situation is also awkward for Syria (well Assad at any rate) as well as Turkey and Iraq.

[Guvernator]

Digga said:

The PKK are a 'recognised' rebel group fighting IS in Syria though. TBH the Kurdish situation is also awkward for Syria (well Assad at any rate) as well as Turkey and Iraq.

That's the problem with picking sides, one man's freedom fighter can often be another man's terrorist and history has shown we in the West haven't really been good at picking the right side or indeed even sticking to a side once we do.

[Halb]

The West has sought and received aid from the Kurds for many years, but been reticent about giving back. Because even though they have been the best allies, they are not the richest.

[glazbagun]

Oakey said:

Someone on reddit compiled a list;


•86 Banking Regulation and Supervision Agency (BDDK) employees dismissed


•51 Borsa Istanbul (national stock exchange) employees dismissed


•245 Sports Ministry personnel suspended


•All Turkish academics banned from traveling abroad


•Demand for all 1,577 University Deans resignation


•30 governors fired


•9000 in Interior Ministry fired


•180 intelligence officials (MIT, Turkey's national intelligence agency) suspended


•2,745 judges dismissed


•3,000,000 civil servants banned from going on holiday


•Talks of reinstating the death penalty


•1,500 Finance Ministry officials suspended


•103 generals/admirals detained for questioning


•?? soldiers fired/imprisoned


•140 members of the Supreme Court and 48 members of the Council of State (the highest court) got arrest warrants 4 days ago, no info on releases etc.


•15,200 Ministry of Education personnel fired


•24 news/media outlets broadcast licenses withdrawn


•492 state religious personnel (Diyanet) removed


•21,000 private teachers licenses revoked


•393 personnel in Ministry of Family and Social Policy dismissed


•257 personnel at PM's office dismissed & ID's seized

And there's noone there to challenge it. Reading the list I was thinking of First they Came for..., but the speed it has taken and how low the tipping point is is the alarming thing.

I had always thought it would be a gradual process until the end, but once you have a majority that you can't lose by stamping on minorities, then the country is a fascist dictatorship just waiting its first new generation who can't remember what came before.

He could now call a referendum on anything he wanted and get approval. Such power is actually my biggest fear in an Indy Scotland or Brexited UK.

[Lucas Ayde]

superkartracer said:

Good time for someone to attack them ( Russia maybe ) .

Turkey is a NATO member so no way will Russia be attacking them in anything short of a WW3 scenario.

Anyway, Erdogan is kissing up to Russia at the moment:

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2016/07/19/...

Apparently, the downing of the Russian plane was all the work of those evil coup plotters, done to embarrass Sultan Erdogan! Would you believe it?


Erdogan is playing off West against East and turning Turkey into an Islamicised version of pre-war Iraq (but at least Iraq was secular, like Libya and Syria - two other countries the West destroyed) with him as the new Saddam.

If he's not stopped now, we are in for a MASSIVE problem on Europes doorstep within a decade (IMO). Plus shortly, Turks will have the rights to enter the EU Schengen zone without a visa thanks to Frau Merkel and her massive refugee screwup.

[glazbagun]

Lucas Ayde said:

If he's not stopped now, we are in for a MASSIVE problem on Europes doorstep within a decade (IMO). Plus shortly, Turks will have the rights to enter the EU Schengen zone without a visa thanks to Frau Merkel and her massive refugee screwup.

I think that's probably more about letting the liberals and intellectuals drain out and further consolidating his grip on the country. Not that he looks like he'll need it. Either way it looks like Europe has landed a police state on its border and inside NATO.

Does Turkey/ Sunni's have a supreme cleric who might have something to say and can't be shot so easily?

Edited by glazbagun on Wednesday 20th July 19:08

[Likes Fast Cars]

So in summary to a number of the points raised in all of the posts re: "Reggie" Erdogan and some of the observations people have made:

yes - he is truing to Islamisice the country;
yes - he wants to get the imans into schools to "preach" (sorry, meant to say "teach") the "pious generation" he is on the record as saying he is creating;
yes - he needs to remove all obstacles to his attempts to change the constitution in order to grant himself supreme leader status;
yes - he wants / needs an excuse to get out of any EU negotiations and turn towards his Islamic friends;
yes - the lists of those being purged were all prepared in advance, the coup was a convenient smokescreen to move to action and carry it out.

The coup was half-arsed, they spunked their load early due to MIT telling the chief of the military that there was something afoot (his aides were part of the plot).

The other things that concerns me is the same situation as someone else posted in this thread, that is the rising-up of the people after Reggie boy called on them to take to the streets; shades of Iraq and also Iran during the revolution. Not a good sign.

All is back to normal now, except for the downgrade today by S&P.

And I do say "normal" because the BS and purging continues unabated, as it has been for quite a while now.

[lapsedpacifist]

It is getting quite bad.

My earlier posts were very much me believing things would be ok.

I am currently, as are many of those that can consolidating their positions to ensure we are outside of Turkey. He has gone WAY WAY WAY too far here.

Iran is sadly a great and possibly accurate parallel!

[Likes Fast Cars]

I was pretty relaxed even during late Friday night (having just been on the last flight out of Istanbul to Antalya!!) and watching it all unfold on TV.

But the events of yesterday and today, specifically the government's push to interfere with the education system - including private schools - is forcing me to re-calibrate whether we allow our daughter to grow up and be educated here with these fkers, who knows what garbage they will attempt to brainwash kids with in the Turkish "education" system.

[Sam All]

3 month State of Emergency will protect democracy, 50k people suspended form jobs - so says Erdogan

[Joey Ramone]

http://warontherocks.com/2016/07/the-coup-operatio...

Interesting analysis of the mechanics of the failed coup

[tumble dryer]

It amazes me (and credit, I suppose, for it) that we are not debating the (un)intended consequences racing at us at an indetermined speed.

Europe as a continent is changing before our eyes.

BY FAR the biggest thing ongoing in geopolitics today; ignore at your peril.
(suggestions welcome)


ETA
Article 50? Where do I sign?

Edited by tumble dryer on Wednesday 20th July 21:49

[glazbagun]

tumble dryer said:

It amazes me (and credit, I suppose, for it) that we are not debating the (un)intended consequences racing at us at an indetermined speed.

Europe as a continent is changing before our eyes.

BY FAR the biggest thing ongoing in geopolitics today; ignore at your peril.
(suggestions welcome)


ETA
Article 50? Where do I sign?

The thing which saddens me is that, like WWI in retrospect, we can all see it happening and could really do with being really sober, boring and selfless about the whole thing. But instead we (and by "we", I mean just about everyone in Europe and the US) seem to be on a course which noone wants but which has an inertia of its own.

We need, and have needed, Erdogan to wind his neck in for a long time, but it's been politically impolite to tell him so so we can't. Maybe the idea of an EU army wasn't such a dumb one after all- if I were Merkel I'd be arming myself to the teeth and keeping it on Bulgaria and Greece.