something afoot in Turkey?

[Digga]

jjlynn27 said:

Cobnapint said:

jjlynn27 said:

cirian75 said:

hell no!

that door has just been slammed shut

That door was never open in the first place, It's a door with 35 locks. One lock was opened. They were in talks about what kind of key 17 other locks needed.

The door should never even have been a door in the first place.

The end result is exactly the same. You can go back and read about people panicking (or pretend to panic) about turkey's 70m population 'flooding' UK as a result of travel visas. It was bks then, it's bks now.

Except it may have imbued the administration with more legitimacy and authority than it deserved, giving it and the population a false impression at best, or ideas above their station at worst. This now leads to the awkward issue of having to withdraw the promise of future privileges that - according to your line of thinking - never existed in the first place, so that the EU/West look like bds, which is politically dangerous right now.

[bazza white]

The judge from ten sledgehammer case now arrested.

[jjlynn27]

Digga said:

Except it may have imbued the administration with more legitimacy and authority than it deserved, giving it and the population a false impression at best, or ideas above their station at worst. This now leads to the awkward issue of having to withdraw the promise of future privileges that - according to your line of thinking - never existed in the first place, so that the EU/West look like bds, which is politically dangerous right now.

I'm sure that Erdogan will spin anything to achieve what Erdogan wants. At the moment it doesn't look like he needs to spin anything at all. Enraged masses seem to lap anything that he puts forward.
As for Turkey's EU membership; like others, they need to achieve certain targets in order for membership to progress. They were so far from those targets, and taking into account the time taken to achieve 1 out of 35 conditions (by far the easiest one), their actual membership was never realistic prospect. And yet, some people believed that 70mil Turks will descend on UK. On these very pages too.

[stripy7]

jjlynn27 said:

Cobnapint said:

jjlynn27 said:

cirian75 said:

hell no!

that door has just been slammed shut

That door was never open in the first place, It's a door with 35 locks. One lock was opened. They were in talks about what kind of key 17 other locks needed.

The door should never even have been a door in the first place.

The end result is exactly the same. You can go back and read about people panicking (or pretend to panic) about turkey's 70m population 'flooding' UK as a result of travel visas. It was bks then, it's bks now.

Is it? If I was Turkish I'd be packing my bag right now.

[jjlynn27]

stripy7 said:

jjlynn27 said:

Cobnapint said:

jjlynn27 said:

cirian75 said:

hell no!

that door has just been slammed shut

That door was never open in the first place, It's a door with 35 locks. One lock was opened. They were in talks about what kind of key 17 other locks needed.

The door should never even have been a door in the first place.

The end result is exactly the same. You can go back and read about people panicking (or pretend to panic) about turkey's 70m population 'flooding' UK as a result of travel visas. It was bks then, it's bks now.

Is it? If I was Turkish I'd be packing my bag right now.

Yes it is.

[Guvernator]

stripy7 said:

Is it? If I was Turkish I'd be packing my bag right now.

I know people over there who are not happy with the current regime who are seriously thinking about leaving.

We were in Istanbul a few months ago and my missus had people either leering at her or giving her funny looks because she was dressed for hot weather, i.e. not covered up from head to toe. Not something we've experienced there before tbh.

A friend asked for a beer with his meal in a restaurant and was told rather rudely "we don't serve alcohol here", again not something he has experienced before. The atmosphere is definitely changing, fine I guess if you are a staunch Muslim but not ideal for a large proportion of people who live there who are not, let alone how it might start to impact the tourist trade etc.

Edited by Guvernator on Thursday 21st July 13:07

[Sam All]

Guvernator said:

I know people over there who are not happy with the current regime who are seriously thinking about leaving.

We were in Istanbul a few months ago and my missus had people either leering at her or giving her funny looks because she was dressed for hot weather, i.e. not covered up from head to toe. Not something we've experienced there before tbh.

A friend asked for a beer with his meal in a restaurant and was told rather rudely "we don't serve alcohol here", again not something he has experienced before. The atmosphere is definitely changing, fine I guess if you are a staunch Muslim but not ideal for a large proportion of people who live there who are not let, alone how it might start to impact the tourist trade etc.

Give it while, and you can substitute Istanbul for Luton/Bradford.

[Sam All]

p1stonhead said:

Sam All said:

Guvernator said:

I know people over there who are not happy with the current regime who are seriously thinking about leaving.

We were in Istanbul a few months ago and my missus had people either leering at her or giving her funny looks because she was dressed for hot weather, i.e. not covered up from head to toe. Not something we've experienced there before tbh.

A friend asked for a beer with his meal in a restaurant and was told rather rudely "we don't serve alcohol here", again not something he has experienced before. The atmosphere is definitely changing, fine I guess if you are a staunch Muslim but not ideal for a large proportion of people who live there who are not let, alone how it might start to impact the tourist trade etc.

Give it while, and you can substitute Istanbul for Luton/Bradford.

Do I need a whoosh or are you that retarded?

So you don't see that happening?

[Legend83]

Sam All said:

So you don't see that happening?

It's already happening.

Try being a white woman in summer wearing a vest-top and shorts and walking down Bury Park Road.

On 'preaching' day you would likely get verbal abuse at best.

[Mr_B]

I'm not sure what to make of this guy trying to stop two tanks at speed just seconds apart. It looks like something from a Buster Keaton movie.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headline...

[jjlynn27]

Legend83 said:

It's already happening.

Try being a white woman in summer wearing a vest-top and shorts and walking down Bury Park Road.

On 'preaching' day you would likely get verbal abuse at best.

That's just not right that you've been abused for your choice of clothes. Not right at all.

[Legend83]

jjlynn27 said:

That's just not right that you've been abused for your choice of clothes. Not right at all.

I don't disagree.

My counter would be that the equivalent modes of dress you are talking about are broadly incompatible with the traditional aspects and values of the opposite cultures.

i.e. in the same way if you walk through a village in Pakistan in an off-the-shoulder dress it will make the local populace uncomfortable, a Muslim lady wearing a facial covering makes the local populace of the UK uncomfortable.

I would expect 99% of UK women would avoid the former to ensure they a) respected the indigenous culture; and b) didn't feel threatened. Certainly every time my wife has been to a Middle Eastern country she has covered up head-to-toe out of respect while out and about.

Would you apply that % to Muslim women who wear facial coverings in the UK?

I respect their freedom to wear what they want - that doesn't mean I have to like it or not believe that it is a sign they put their culture before the broader culture of the country they have chosen to live in.

A bit off topic sorry.

[danllama]

jjlynn27 said:

I'm sure that Erdogan will spin anything to achieve what Erdogan wants. At the moment it doesn't look like he needs to spin anything at all. Enraged masses seem to lap anything that he puts forward.
As for Turkey's EU membership; like others, they need to achieve certain targets in order for membership to progress. They were so far from those targets, and taking into account the time taken to achieve 1 out of 35 conditions (by far the easiest one), their actual membership was never realistic prospect. And yet, some people believed that 70mil Turks will descend on UK. On these very pages too.

That's not exactly accurate. The concern was that Merkel et al were going to offer Turkish citizens free movement in Europe, in exchange for herding the refugees. Which I believe was a genuine and justified concern.

Now it looks like Turkish citizens might BE the refugees, soon enough.

[jjlynn27]

Legend83 said:

jjlynn27 said:

That's just not right that you've been abused for your choice of clothes. Not right at all.

I don't disagree.

My counter would be that the equivalent modes of dress you are talking about are broadly incompatible with the traditional aspects and values of the opposite cultures.

i.e. in the same way if you walk through a village in Pakistan in an off-the-shoulder dress it will make the local populace uncomfortable, a Muslim lady wearing a facial covering makes the local populace of the UK uncomfortable.

I would expect 99% of UK women would avoid the former to ensure they a) respected the indigenous culture; and b) didn't feel threatened. Certainly every time my wife has been to a Middle Eastern country she has covered up head-to-toe out of respect while out and about.

Would you apply that % to Muslim women who wear facial coverings in the UK?

I respect their freedom to wear what they want - that doesn't mean I have to like it or not believe that it is a sign they put their culture before the broader culture of the country they have chosen to live in.

A bit off topic sorry.

Cockatoo, New Zealand or Norwegian blue?

[Guvernator]

danllama said:

That's not exactly accurate. The concern was that Merkel et al were going to offer Turkish citizens free movement in Europe, in exchange for herding the refugees. Which I believe was a genuine and justified concern.

Now it looks like Turkish citizens might BE the refugees, soon enough.

Yep we've already had a big influx of Kurdish refugees from Turkey over the last decade or so who have come here using asylum laws, some obviously have genuine cases, some do not but they still use the "I was being oppressed" card regardless.

Surely with the change in regime that's happening, this door will now be open for those people in Turkey who don't want to live under the oppression of a dictatorship Muslim state? What exactly are the rules and requirements for asylum seeking anyway as they seem pretty lax to me.

[Legend83]

jjlynn27 said:

Cockatoo, New Zealand or Norwegian blue?

I'm well aware you were being ironic with respect to the attack on the muslim lady in the other thread.

[Oakey]

Turkey to temporarily suspend European Convention on Human Rights after coup attempt;

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-to-tempora...

[glazbagun]

Guvernator said:

Yep we've already had a big influx of Kurdish refugees from Turkey over the last decade or so who have come here using asylum laws, some obviously have genuine cases, some do not but they still use the "I was being oppressed" card regardless.

Surely with the change in regime that's happening, this door will now be open for those people in Turkey who don't want to live under the oppression of a dictatorship Muslim state? What exactly are the rules and requirements for asylum seeking anyway as they seem pretty lax to me.

I'm not sure that there are actually universally agreed rules. The UNHC has this to say, but governments only care about the UN when it's agreeing with them. If the UK economy tanks I may try my hand as a Scot fleeing oppression by my English overlords and see how far I get.

[glazbagun]

Oakey said:

Turkey to temporarily suspend European Convention on Human Rights after coup attempt;

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-to-tempora...

State of emergency means no protests allowed also. Not that they were exactly tolerated before. The country is lost.

[Digga]

Oakey said:

Turkey to temporarily suspend European Convention on Human Rights after coup attempt;

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-to-tempora...