something afoot in Turkey?
Discussion
Guvernator said:
Turkey is also in a VERY key strategic location being the buffer between Europe and the Middle East as well as right on the doorstep of Russia so I can understand the desire that certain countries may have to be in control of that region in some way. What the end game is I don't really know but IF the US are involved, they are playing a VERY dangerous game with that region which has potential to blow up in their faces.
Turkey is perhaps, at this juncture, the most strategically and politically important nation on the globe. US and EU foreign policy has been lacking for some time. It was clearly, in retrospect, a huge mistake to give someone like Erdogan the perceived legitimacy and status that the cosying-up of the EU and US imbued on him.PoleDriver said:
I don't think that things have got any safer there yet!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/04/body...
Oh dear, that is horrendous. You can hardly blame them for wanting to get out of the place and into Europe really.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/04/body...
Digga] said:
Turkey is perhaps, at this juncture, the most strategically and politically important nation on the globe. US and EU foreign policy has been lacking for some time. It was clearly, in retrospect, a huge mistake to give someone like Erdogan the perceived legitimacy and status that the cosying-up of the EU and US imbued on him.
I find the cosying-up very weird to be frank, just what is the objective there? Erdogan is clearly off the rails and yet the reaction from most of Europe and the US has been virtually non-existent. Is it so important to them that Turkey keeps Syrian refugees or is something else at stake here? I really can't see what the motivation is to keep Erdogan sweet but they seem to be bending over backwards.PoleDriver said:
I don't think that things have got any safer there yet!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/04/body...
So persecuted for being gay... and they punish this 'transgression' by... raping him? What on earth is wrong with these idiots?https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/04/body...
Guvernator said:
I find the cosying-up very weird to be frank, just what is the objective there? Erdogan is clearly off the rails and yet the reaction from most of Europe and the US has been virtually non-existent. Is it so important to them that Turkey keeps Syrian refugees or is something else at stake here? I really can't see what the motivation is to keep Erdogan sweet but they seem to be bending over backwards.
They aren't cosying up. They appear counting their losses and regrouping. The coup seemed like a last-ditch effort to bring Turkey into the fold, but they cannot take a hostile approach now that it has failed. Turkey is too important strategically.It's now looking to me as though we in the West were, once again, misinformed about a number of issues pertaining to yet another crisis zone in Cold War 2.0. Viva Empire.
scherzkeks said:
It's now looking to me as though we in the West were, once again, misinformed about a number of issues pertaining to yet another crisis zone in Cold War 2.0. Viva Empire.
I find this very odd too, like this development has taken them by surprise or something?? This has been brewing for years, the signs were on the wall for what was happening to Turkey for anyone willing to take even a cursory look. For all their vaunted intelligence gathering, I am constantly surprised that the West seem to constantly be caught on the hop and always seem to be one step behind on developments in the hot zones of the world. This could have been foreseen and headed off years ago IMO which thinking about it makes me think perhaps they wanted this to happen?Guvernator said:
I find this very odd too, like this development has taken them by surprise or something?? This has been brewing for years, the signs were on the wall for what was happening to Turkey for anyone willing to take even a cursory look. For all their vaunted intelligence gathering, I am constantly surprised that the West seem to constantly be caught on the hop and always seem to be one step behind on developments in the hot zones of the world. This could have been foreseen and headed off years ago IMO which thinking about it makes me think perhaps they wanted this to happen?
Based on what I've seen, I think the truth of the matter is that Gülen is the CIA's man and he has been working with his supporters within Turkey to get rid of Erdogan. This would have brought them US vassal state status in the end. Erdo seems to have been working with both the US and Russians when it suited him, and this has upset Washington. Hence the coup.The most plausible situation is that the Russians gave Erdo notice of the coup, he fled, coup was put down, and then he returned and began purging Gülen supporters. He knows who they are since this power struggle has been going on for years. Essentially, it looks like a failed Ukraine-style US-backed coup, but given Turkey's importance/location, they cannot afford to be openly hostile to Erdo in the aftermath; they are also trying to put the lid on the Gülen stuff in the press.
scherzkeks said:
Based on what I've seen, I think the truth of the matter is that Gülen is the CIA's man and he has been working with his supporters within Turkey to get rid of Erdogan. This would have brought them US vassal state status in the end. Erdo seems to have been working with both the US and Russians when it suited him, and this has upset Washington. Hence the coup.
The most plausible situation is that the Russians gave Erdo notice of the coup, he fled, coup was put down, and then he returned and began purging Gülen supporters. He knows who they are since this power struggle has been going on for years. Essentially, it looks like a failed Ukraine-style US-backed coup, but given Turkey's importance/location, they cannot afford to be openly hostile to Erdo in the aftermath; they are also trying to put the lid on the Gülen stuff in the press.
Quiet close to my sentiments, the only thing that doesn't add up was that Gulen and Erdo where best buddies till a few years ago. In fact I strongly suspect Gulen was Erdo's kingmaker and largely responsible for getting him to power. They then had a falling out a few years ago over what looks like money\business deals but could be something else we don't know about. I wonder if Erdo was savvy enough to use Gulen and his probable US backers to rise to power and then discard them when it no longer suited his purposes which obviously would put their noses out of joint, no wonder Erdogan travels around with a security detail that would put most small countries armies to shame. The most plausible situation is that the Russians gave Erdo notice of the coup, he fled, coup was put down, and then he returned and began purging Gülen supporters. He knows who they are since this power struggle has been going on for years. Essentially, it looks like a failed Ukraine-style US-backed coup, but given Turkey's importance/location, they cannot afford to be openly hostile to Erdo in the aftermath; they are also trying to put the lid on the Gülen stuff in the press.
It's like the bloody Game of Thrones, (except not as many boobies!) backstabbing, power plays, money grabs, double-crosses. I always suspected this kind of stuff went on but to see it played out first hand right in front of your eyes is a sobering experience. Meanwhile the Turkish public seem mostly oblivious and once again I am reminded of the frightening power the media have over the masses.
scherzkeks said:
Very interesting interview with German-American historian F. Willam Engdahl on this matter:
http://www.williamengdahl.com/englishNEO18July2016...
Sobering and tiring.http://www.williamengdahl.com/englishNEO18July2016...
Edited by scherzkeks on Thursday 4th August 09:28
Halb said:
scherzkeks said:
Very interesting interview with German-American historian F. Willam Engdahl on this matter:
http://www.williamengdahl.com/englishNEO18July2016...
Sobering and tiring.http://www.williamengdahl.com/englishNEO18July2016...
Edited by scherzkeks on Thursday 4th August 09:28
With regards the refugee crisis, he says something I have long believed; most never wanted to leave and would return home if fighting stopped and it was, therefore, safe and practical to do so.
Digga said:
Damning of US intervention and equally damning of the EU.
With regards the refugee crisis, he says something I have long believed; most never wanted to leave and would return home if fighting stopped and it was, therefore, safe and practical to do so.
I'm not so convinced of your second statement. Yes some will want to go back but there are a lot of people in less developed countries who want to leave for economic reasons. Thanks to the explosion of global communications and the internet, people are waking up to the fact that we have it far better over here, at least in terms of material wealth. Gone are the days when the West could keep those people in the dark, the cat is well and truly out the bag and the wealth divide which the Western governments all but encourage in order to let us lead our privileged lives is very visible now. I predict the influx of people all wanting a piece of the "Western dream" will continue to grow.With regards the refugee crisis, he says something I have long believed; most never wanted to leave and would return home if fighting stopped and it was, therefore, safe and practical to do so.
I see he has managed to mobilise more of the Istanbul naive......
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37003819
Turkey coup attempt: Istanbul rally against plot
38 minutes ago
From the section Europe
Hundreds of thousands of people have gathered in Turkey's biggest city, Istanbul, for a rally to protest against last month's attempted coup.
President Recep Tayyip Erdogan was joined by opposition leaders in addressing the crowd.
In his opening remarks, Mr Erdogan said he would not block the return of the death penalty to Turkey.
More than 270 people died in events surrounding the 15 July coup attempt, which triggered a government crackdown.
Thousands of alleged supporters of a US-based Turkish cleric Fethullah Gulen - who denies any role in fomenting the coup - were detained or dismissed from government jobs.
Mr Erdogan told the rally: "It is the Turkish parliament that will decide on the death penalty... I declare it in advance, I will approve the decision made by the parliament."
Western nations have been critical of the government's response to the coup. The European Union - which Turkey has applied to join - refuses to accept capital punishment in member states.
The "Democracy and Martyrs' Rally" is the climax of three weeks of nightly demonstrations by Mr Erdogan's supporters around the country.
Jump media playerMedia player helpOut of media player. Press enter to return or tab to continue.
Huge crowds rallied in Istanbul, as BBC Persian's Khashayar Joneidi reports
Kurdish groups have not been invited, because of alleged links to militants.
Speaking ahead of Mr Erdogan, Prime Minister Binali Yildirim told the rally that Mr Gulen would be brought to Turkey and made to pay the price for the coup attempt.
"Let all of you know, the leader of this terrorist group will come to Turkey and pay for what he did," Mr Yildirim said.
The leader of the main secularist opposition party, Kemal Kilicdaroglu, told the rally that the coup had opened a "new door of compromise" in the country's politics.
"There is a new Turkey after July 15," the Republican People's Party leader said.
In a rare address to a public rally, the head of Turkey's armed forces, Hulusi Akar, said "traitors" behind the attempted coup would be punished in the harshest way, and thanked civilians for their role in defeating the uprising.
The crackdown in Turkey has seen tens of thousands of public sector workers suspended or dismissed, with many having their passports cancelled. There has also been a massive reshuffle of the military.
About 18,000 people have been detained or arrested.
Local branches of the AK Party have been told to begin a purge of suspected Gulenists in their ranks.
Mr Gulen had been a close ally of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan until a bitter split between his movement and the party of the president three years ago.
Turkey has listed Mr Gulen's movement as a terrorist organisation.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37003819
Turkey coup attempt: Istanbul rally against plot
38 minutes ago
From the section Europe
Hundreds of thousands of people have gathered in Turkey's biggest city, Istanbul, for a rally to protest against last month's attempted coup.
President Recep Tayyip Erdogan was joined by opposition leaders in addressing the crowd.
In his opening remarks, Mr Erdogan said he would not block the return of the death penalty to Turkey.
More than 270 people died in events surrounding the 15 July coup attempt, which triggered a government crackdown.
Thousands of alleged supporters of a US-based Turkish cleric Fethullah Gulen - who denies any role in fomenting the coup - were detained or dismissed from government jobs.
Mr Erdogan told the rally: "It is the Turkish parliament that will decide on the death penalty... I declare it in advance, I will approve the decision made by the parliament."
Western nations have been critical of the government's response to the coup. The European Union - which Turkey has applied to join - refuses to accept capital punishment in member states.
The "Democracy and Martyrs' Rally" is the climax of three weeks of nightly demonstrations by Mr Erdogan's supporters around the country.
Jump media playerMedia player helpOut of media player. Press enter to return or tab to continue.
Huge crowds rallied in Istanbul, as BBC Persian's Khashayar Joneidi reports
Kurdish groups have not been invited, because of alleged links to militants.
Speaking ahead of Mr Erdogan, Prime Minister Binali Yildirim told the rally that Mr Gulen would be brought to Turkey and made to pay the price for the coup attempt.
"Let all of you know, the leader of this terrorist group will come to Turkey and pay for what he did," Mr Yildirim said.
The leader of the main secularist opposition party, Kemal Kilicdaroglu, told the rally that the coup had opened a "new door of compromise" in the country's politics.
"There is a new Turkey after July 15," the Republican People's Party leader said.
In a rare address to a public rally, the head of Turkey's armed forces, Hulusi Akar, said "traitors" behind the attempted coup would be punished in the harshest way, and thanked civilians for their role in defeating the uprising.
The crackdown in Turkey has seen tens of thousands of public sector workers suspended or dismissed, with many having their passports cancelled. There has also been a massive reshuffle of the military.
About 18,000 people have been detained or arrested.
Local branches of the AK Party have been told to begin a purge of suspected Gulenists in their ranks.
Mr Gulen had been a close ally of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan until a bitter split between his movement and the party of the president three years ago.
Turkey has listed Mr Gulen's movement as a terrorist organisation.
Yes, a totally spontaneous outburst of support in a place where there happened to be hundreds of Turkish flags lying around.
It was like a scene from Pyongyang. I fully expected to see the Pink Floyd hammers walking past in the background.
He's also said he supports the return of executions. Step forward, please, anybody who disagrees with this idea....
It was like a scene from Pyongyang. I fully expected to see the Pink Floyd hammers walking past in the background.
He's also said he supports the return of executions. Step forward, please, anybody who disagrees with this idea....
scherzkeks said:
How do you feel about the death penalty in the United States? Just curious.
Not a good idea and wish it did not exist anywhere.The way he is implementing it in a particular way for my ire. The people say so, so the people must be obeyed. Probably has his list of preferred drawn up. He has a chance to do a lot of good at this moment in time seeing as the populace appear to be with him. Or he can take his country down with him. He knows damn well what he is doing.
jmorgan said:
Not a good idea and wish it did not exist anywhere.
The way he is implementing it in a particular way for my ire. The people say so, so the people must be obeyed. Probably has his list of preferred drawn up. He has a chance to do a lot of good at this moment in time seeing as the populace appear to be with him. Or he can take his country down with him. He knows damn well what he is doing.
What is he doing? Honest question. And, assuming you know, where do you get your info.?The way he is implementing it in a particular way for my ire. The people say so, so the people must be obeyed. Probably has his list of preferred drawn up. He has a chance to do a lot of good at this moment in time seeing as the populace appear to be with him. Or he can take his country down with him. He knows damn well what he is doing.
Cobnapint said:
Yes, a totally spontaneous outburst of support in a place where there happened to be hundreds of Turkish flags lying around.
It was like a scene from Pyongyang. I fully expected to see the Pink Floyd hammers walking past in the background.
He's also said he supports the return of executions. Step forward, please, anybody who disagrees with this idea....
is the number being held 13,000 ? that is a lot of people to arrest detain and execute. but it is a democratic country right.It was like a scene from Pyongyang. I fully expected to see the Pink Floyd hammers walking past in the background.
He's also said he supports the return of executions. Step forward, please, anybody who disagrees with this idea....
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