Tesla Master Plan part deux
Discussion
Jader1973 said:
technodup said:
As it is I think they're most of the way there for most people. It's just that some people as on this thread seem to want the right to drive a mythical 700kms whenever they feel like it (which is never, but I still might one day bla bla).
I used to live in England, my parents live in Scotland. It was 600 km one way to visit them. I used to leave my house with a full tank, stop for 10 mins for a break in the Lake District, and then get there with about an 1/8th of a tank left. Hardly mythical.Now I live in Aus. The distances here are massive - my sister in law lives 200km away, and that is regarded as fairly close! Down here a car with a range of only 300km is regarded as useless by a huge portion of the population. I suspect the US will be similar.
Range is a huge hurdle for them to overcome and until there is a fast charging station in every town the has a petrol station that will remain the case. in fact in Aus you'd need charging stations in places that don't currently have them given the distances.
This is like saying mobiles won't work because you can't get a signal everywhere in the world.
What is likely to happen is that autonomous EV's will cover 90% of requirements.
The result will be that petrol cars will cease to be developed and will be banned progressively.
In places with long distances other solutions will be required. Either long range electric vehicles hired for long trips or electric buses where people's journeys are paired with people doing similar trips with the final bit of the trip being carried out by short range electric vehicles.
Talksteer said:
This is like saying mobiles won't work because you can't get a signal everywhere in the world.
You can imagine the thread back then.But everyone is used to a phone in the home and office, why would they switch?
But nobody needs one.
But it'll be expensive compared to a normal phone.
But the technology won't work.
But the battery is huge and heavy.
But you'd have to charge it every night.
But where are all the masts going to go?
Bla bla bla
Another example of tech completely changing the way we do things, in a fairly short space of time. But it'll never happen to cars, oh no.
mybrainhurts said:
technodup said:
eccles said:
I know many people that haven't flown,
If you hang around with people who've never been on a plane it doesn't surprise me you're well behind the curve with the future of road transport.technodup said:
eccles said:
Having a car is arguably the most important thing in your life after having somewhere to live for many people,so messing with their ability to go where they want, when they want may take longer to change that something a relative minority do once a year as a luxury.
Firstly that 'relative minority' is pretty big (250m UK flights/yr), it's no longer a luxury (my previous point) and as for cars, people think they're the most important thing just now. Because like you they can't see the alternatives.It's happening already, gradually. More EV's and charge points, grants and congestion charges. Carrot and stick. Add in autonomous cars, new 'ownership' models, higher fuel taxes, incentives to work from home and reduce journeys, public transport integration and so on and we're looking at a fundamental change in the way we think of personal transport.
Possibly the biggest one will be safety. I can see the ads now, "why risk your child being one of the 10000 who DIE on the roads each year when Google can guarantee their safety".
Businesses and governments change our behaviours all the time. They're very good at it. Normal is only temporary until the new normal takes over. Only question here is how long that is. I can't wait.
I love perfromace cars. Last weekend I was driving a 458 on a track, we have 2 sports cars, yet I also own a family car for all the daily stuff I need to do.
I've ordered a tesla to replace my current daily driver. Its quiet, simple, easy to live with and very quick. i will be driving it around 36k miles a year, and hopefully 80% of that will be on autopilot.
It will not diminish my love of perfromance cars one bit. If anything it will make driving for fun more enjoyable.
Edited by 98elise on Sunday 24th July 21:15
mybrainhurts said:
Talksteer said:
What is likely to happen is that autonomous EV's will cover 90% of requirements.
The result will be that petrol cars will cease to be developed and will be banned progressively.
Where are the magnets going to come from for all these electric motors?The result will be that petrol cars will cease to be developed and will be banned progressively.
There are no more magnets a Tesla than any comparable ICE car.
Edited by 98elise on Sunday 24th July 21:16
AnotherClarkey said:
mybrainhurts said:
Big performance, zero soul.
And how many times can it do that before it runs out of puff?
When people start bringing up 'soul' in connection with cars it generally signifies that they have run out of valid arguments.And how many times can it do that before it runs out of puff?
The rights and wrongs of the green 'debate' are irrelevant. We're on the wrong side of history and if you forget about co2 b
ks there's no doubt our cities would be much nicer for far fewer IC engines. The Tesla S is already way faster than 99% of cars, far nicer in terms of nvh than 99% of cars with a range the same as my Touareg which I fill up once a month. That's one car from a company that didn't exist 13 years ago and we're not even talking about the joys of the tedious commute by AI. No doubtin 30 years our grand kids will roll their eyes at us when I'm taking a real car out for a spin in the country. We'll be like Fred Dibnah to them.
ks there's no doubt our cities would be much nicer for far fewer IC engines. The Tesla S is already way faster than 99% of cars, far nicer in terms of nvh than 99% of cars with a range the same as my Touareg which I fill up once a month. That's one car from a company that didn't exist 13 years ago and we're not even talking about the joys of the tedious commute by AI. No doubtin 30 years our grand kids will roll their eyes at us when I'm taking a real car out for a spin in the country. We'll be like Fred Dibnah to them.fblm said:
The rights and wrongs of the green 'debate' are irrelevant. We're on the wrong side of history and if you forget about co2 bks there's no doubt our cities would be much nicer for far fewer IC engines. The Tesla S is already way faster than 99% of cars, far nicer in terms of nvh than 99% of cars with a range the same as my Touareg which I fill up once a month. That's one car from a company that didn't exist 13 years ago and we're not even talking about the joys of the tedious commute by AI. No doubtin 30 years our grand kids will roll their eyes at us when I'm taking a real car out for a spin in the country. We'll be like Fred Dibnah to them.
Haha, yeh, we were laughing about that the other night. Probably not my children, but theirs. They will be saying 'Grandad, you used to drive yourself?' and not be able to understand why.ks there's no doubt our cities would be much nicer for far fewer IC engines. The Tesla S is already way faster than 99% of cars, far nicer in terms of nvh than 99% of cars with a range the same as my Touareg which I fill up once a month. That's one car from a company that didn't exist 13 years ago and we're not even talking about the joys of the tedious commute by AI. No doubtin 30 years our grand kids will roll their eyes at us when I'm taking a real car out for a spin in the country. We'll be like Fred Dibnah to them.fblm said:
98elise said:
I love perfromace cars. Last weekend I was driving a 485 on a track
Damn it man. The question was obnoxious but you blew the reply! 
I do agree though. Electric car for commute, suv for family sh it, lightweight sports car for fun. Job done.
So to summarise:
- Master Plan part deux obviously isn't even worth discussing so we'll turn this into a general electric car discussion.
- Electric cars suit some people perfectly, and they're convinced they'll suit a lot of other people.
- If you don't have needs that suit an electric car you can fk off, because some of the true believers in this thread envisage a fascist utopia where other options are banned and if a Tesla doesn't work you can take public transport.
Sound about right?
- Master Plan part deux obviously isn't even worth discussing so we'll turn this into a general electric car discussion.
- Electric cars suit some people perfectly, and they're convinced they'll suit a lot of other people.
- If you don't have needs that suit an electric car you can f
k off, because some of the true believers in this thread envisage a fascist utopia where other options are banned and if a Tesla doesn't work you can take public transport.Sound about right?
Jader1973 said:
Getting a taxi is "functionally the same" as owning a car. Last time I looked there were a lot more private cars on the road than taxis.
At the moment, no its not. Taxi's cost a lot because you are paying a driver. You have to wait for them too. Uber is closer but you still have the extra expense.Switch to self driving BEV's and you have no difference between using your own and someone elses.
No driver, low fuel costs, low maintenance costs.
mybrainhurts said:
otolith said:
mybrainhurts said:
Which begs the question...why are you on a performance car forum?
I wonder what proportion of PH own cars that would not be left for dead by a Tesla? That's 0-100 mph in under 8 seconds for the Model X.And how many times can it do that before it runs out of puff?
I'm pretty sure that drag stripping any vehicle continuously will run it out of fuel.
Yes BEV's run out of juice. So do ICE's.
Yes you can refil an ICE faster today than a BEV. Those times have dropped a lot and will continue to drop.
But if you add up the time spent filling up an ICE compared to a typical BEV ownership the ICE will loose.
5-10min every week or so for the ICE , or 20 seconds plugging the BEV in every 3-4 nights.
Yes BEV's run out of juice. So do ICE's.
Yes you can refil an ICE faster today than a BEV. Those times have dropped a lot and will continue to drop.
But if you add up the time spent filling up an ICE compared to a typical BEV ownership the ICE will loose.
5-10min every week or so for the ICE , or 20 seconds plugging the BEV in every 3-4 nights.
Jonesy23 said:
So to summarise:
- Master Plan part deux obviously isn't even worth discussing so we'll turn this into a general electric car discussion.
- Electric cars suit some people perfectly, and they're convinced they'll suit a lot of other people.
- If you don't have needs that suit an electric car you can fk off, because some of the true believers in this thread envisage a fascist utopia where other options are banned and if a Tesla doesn't work you can take public transport.
Sound about right?
That's just PH working it's magic. I'm sure you'll be able to choose.- Master Plan part deux obviously isn't even worth discussing so we'll turn this into a general electric car discussion.
- Electric cars suit some people perfectly, and they're convinced they'll suit a lot of other people.
- If you don't have needs that suit an electric car you can f
k off, because some of the true believers in this thread envisage a fascist utopia where other options are banned and if a Tesla doesn't work you can take public transport.Sound about right?
mybrainhurts said:
Talksteer said:
What is likely to happen is that autonomous EV's will cover 90% of requirements.
The result will be that petrol cars will cease to be developed and will be banned progressively.
Where are the magnets going to come from for all these electric motors?The result will be that petrol cars will cease to be developed and will be banned progressively.
FFS, have you heard of this thing called the global economy, it's really good at getting things that people want!
Secondly Tesla's use an induction motor which uses electromagnets, so we can make them as long as we have conductors and iron....
There is plenty of accessible studies out there on the effects of electric cars on electricity grids, carbon emissions and materials supply chain. Suggest reading some of them before debating electric cars!
Tesla dont use any rare earth metals or magnets. Not that rare earth things are actually really rare anyhow.
Far more magnets in an ICE car.
https://www.tesla.com/blog/induction-versus-dc-bru...
Far more magnets in an ICE car.
https://www.tesla.com/blog/induction-versus-dc-bru...
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